[StewtheBassman]

But if I'm faster than a RWD in bad conditions isn't there a "performance" edge as well?

[StewtheBassman]

If Xdrive is Marketing then EVERYTHING is marketing (which it is, ultimately).

[ed328ci]

Originally Posted by StewtheBassman

But if I'm faster than a RWD in bad conditions isn't there a "performance" edge as well?

In the snow, while going up hill, yes. But you will not be able to stop any faster, and will in fact, be stopping in a longer distance, due to greater mass. Secondly, unless one is living in Antarctica, there will not be heavy snow for most of the year. In non-snowy conditions, RWD will be a better performance platform, given the same chassis and drive-train.

Lastly, and I know this sounds like a cop out, but if the roads are so covered with snow and ice that AWD is a necessity, you should not be going fast any ways. You can't stop, and you would be more likely to kill yourself or someone else.

There is nothing wrong with AWD, btw. Buy what you like. If you live in a very snowy climate with lots of hills, yes, it will make a difference in your commute.

Ed

[StewtheBassman]

Please, ed. Darth Vader has never been out here. Our main road that I take every day for 25 kms to get to the highway is dry pavement on the crown only. The rest is ice and snow, with the shoulder and the fields merging into one. Corners around here (not hills) can be negotiated much faster with xDrive than RWD because while your rear wheels are spinning and your rear end is swinging, all my torque has gone to the front and the car is now pulling my car around the curve. As soon as the rear wheels regain traction, the system rebalances and the torque distribution is 40:60 again. I frequently get caught in either freezing rain or blowoing snow conditions that are very frustrating in a RWD car (Like last year's E46 325 WITh great snows). The xDrive just gets me home faster. That's fact, not just "marketing".

Off to play jazz now, take it easy!

[ed328ci]

Originally Posted by StewtheBassman

...Off to play jazz now, take it easy!

Have a good session!

Ed

[jmatero]

Here's the issue here. I drove a 2006 2.0T A4 Quattro and found it to be damn loud with obvious lag and terrible front passenger foot-room. I drove the 6-speed manual 2006 325xi sedan MINUTES after the A4 and found it to be smoother and quicker than the Audi. This is the complete reverse of what the original post states.

The issue here is that the original post states he drove the "S-line A4 2.0T".... well, there is no such thing. If he drove the S-line A4 (S4), he drove a 340hp V8 as that's how the S4 comes... it's the only powertrain... it's not available with the 2.0T... which would explain why his experience was so different than ours. I owned a VW Passat with 1.8T chipped to over 200hp and it was a hoot... and I've driven the current 2.0T A4 Auto and Manual. It's a great car, the A4... but for me, there was no comparison. The power just wasn't linear in the A4 and it was obvious it was a turbo. My last three cars were turbos.... and now that I've driven the 3-series (325xi I might add) I understand why 3.0L at 215hp is better than 2.0Turbo with 205hp.

Sounds like he either drove the V6 or the S-line which is a V8 (And $48000 I might add)

[acd483]

Originally Posted by DerekS

acd483,
Sir, you began your argument with the following statement : "I see a lot (of 325XiT) driving around and can't figure it out."
From reading your subsequent posts, it is clear to me that no amount of contrary evidence to your claims, nor testimonials, nor brisk sales of 325XiT is going to alter your negative opinion of the 325XiT.
In short, you said that "the Xi feels like a pig." You also said that "I'm lamenting the lack of RWD and/or a bigger engine."
You, like many of your fellow Americans, are apparently obsessed with horsepower. It is therefore not surprising that the USA has become dependent upon Middle East oil ( and Canadian too) to fuel so many ravenous engines. I guess those of us who have purchased 325XiT feel that the horsepower is adequate, the handling dynamics and versatility are superb and the fuel economy is reasonable.
In making your choice, you obviously have many vehicles to choose from.
May I suggest two:
1. purchase a reasonably fuel efficient 325 XiT
or
2. run down to your nearest Chrysler dealer and buy a Dodge Magnum with the largest V8 engine.

Finally, while you are making up your mind, why don't we call a time out on this silly argument.
Cheers !!

Great, another liberal practicing what they preach against: stereotyping. I'm not dying for horsepower, I'm simply surprised that the Ultimate Driving Machine is relatively pretty lame when saddled with AWD and ~3800lbs of matter.
I'm not interested in a Magnum, though I assume that was tongue-in-cheek. If we could get RWD 325iT, that would be great.

Your superlative description of the XI is laughable, in my opinion you're trying to make subjective arguements stick. Show me the specs, which when compiled, put the XI ahead of the Audi.

p.s. Did I mention most of the drivers of the XiT are women?

[acd483]

Originally Posted by jmatero

Here's the issue here. I drove a 2006 2.0T A4 Quattro and found it to be damn loud with obvious lag and terrible front passenger foot-room. I drove the 6-speed manual 2006 325xi sedan MINUTES after the A4 and found it to be smoother and quicker than the Audi. This is the complete reverse of what the original post states.

The issue here is that the original post states he drove the "S-line A4 2.0T".... well, there is no such thing. If he drove the S-line A4 (S4), he drove a 340hp V8 as that's how the S4 comes... it's the only powertrain... it's not available with the 2.0T... which would explain why his experience was so different than ours. I owned a VW Passat with 1.8T chipped to over 200hp and it was a hoot... and I've driven the current 2.0T A4 Auto and Manual. It's a great car, the A4... but for me, there was no comparison. The power just wasn't linear in the A4 and it was obvious it was a turbo. My last three cars were turbos.... and now that I've driven the 3-series (325xi I might add) I understand why 3.0L at 215hp is better than 2.0Turbo with 205hp.

Sounds like he either drove the V6 or the S-line which is a V8 (And $48000 I might add)

With 2 min. of research on the Audi USA site, you could have spared yourself the foot-in-mouth position you're currently in.

[acd483]

Originally Posted by snapper

I also believe the best handling car will ultimately be a Bimmer w/[real]SP in RWD but if you really need AWD, I'd tip my hat to an Audi since you can a real SP (and because I understand Audi's Torsen AWD system is better).

Snapper, I appreciate your comments. I fully agree. There's nothing like a RWD 330i in its class.

[jmatero]

well you're right, I did stick my foot in my mouth.

(Big FOOT IN MOUTH sound)



Confused the S-line pkg with S4. My apologies. But again the only thing I can figure is that you drove a lemon. I spent 3 weekends driving A4 2.0 Quattro manuals and 325xi manuals back to back and I was set to plunk my $$ down on the Audi. But everytime I hopped in the 325xi (with standard wheels I might add) I just couldn't buy the Audi. The turnoffs for me were:

1. Very uncomfortable for front passenger.. no foot room whatsoever
2. Rubbery vague shifter
3. Obvious turbo lag (and I've been driving turbos...)
4. Styling getting a little long in the tooth inside and out... even with the new nose/tail
5. Felt "removed" some how from the car... the BMW reminded me of my MX-5.. like you're part of the machine... I definately felt a disconnect in the A4
6. The "drone" sound of the engine which sounded just like my Passat's 1.8T on the highway... not the BMW's sweet sound.

Again, to each his own... they're both great cars and you really can't go wrong with either.. they just seem to appeal to different types of drivers.

To each his own though. They're both great cars.

[E24]

Audi makes a decent car but I think BMW makes a superior car. Resale happens to be a big factor with me. It is a big consideration when I buy a car because I tend to get bored and buy/sell more than most. I don't think that Audi has ever fully recovered from the 60 minutes piece on "unintended acceleration" that dates back to the 80's. In my book an Audi is a dressed up VW much like a Lexus is a dressed up Toyota, etc. etc. A BMW is a BMW (true sport package or not) and will trump any Audi in any configuration when the time comes to turn over the keys to the next lucky owner. Just my 2 cents.

[acd483]

Originally Posted by jmatero

well you're right, I did stick my foot in my mouth.

(Big FOOT IN MOUTH sound)



Confused the S-line pkg with S4. My apologies. But again the only thing I can figure is that you drove a lemon. I spent 3 weekends driving A4 2.0 Quattro manuals and 325xi manuals back to back and I was set to plunk my $$ down on the Audi. But everytime I hopped in the 325xi (with standard wheels I might add) I just couldn't buy the Audi. The turnoffs for me were:

1. Very uncomfortable for front passenger.. no foot room whatsoever
2. Rubbery vague shifter
3. Obvious turbo lag (and I've been driving turbos...)
4. Styling getting a little long in the tooth inside and out... even with the new nose/tail
5. Felt "removed" some how from the car... the BMW reminded me of my MX-5.. like you're part of the machine... I definately felt a disconnect in the A4
6. The "drone" sound of the engine which sounded just like my Passat's 1.8T on the highway... not the BMW's sweet sound.

Again, to each his own... they're both great cars and you really can't go wrong with either.. they just seem to appeal to different types of drivers.

To each his own though. They're both great cars.

Let me address some of your concerns.

1. You must be carrying big passengers.
2. VAG products generally have boring shift action. I drove both, but was more attentive to the Auto as that is what we'll be getting.
3. Disagree...the 2.0T with FSI has tons of torque to overcome the turbo lag. I was dually impressed.
4. Audis are extremely timeless in their design, I think the current one looks great, but that's just my opinion.
5. I didn't feel connected in either car to the degree I'd like. Course that's why we own a Boxster.
6. The most troubling part of this car. The 2.0T chuggs at idle a bit and even subtely vibrates when equipped with the auto. It reminded me of the Alfa turbodiesel I rented in Italy...charming but certainly not the silky smooth 6 of the BMW. I definitely agree that the 6 is a nice engine. I do wish the 325i had more growl though...it's almost too good.

[sbrentson]

Gang,

AWD can handle better than RWD in normal driving conditions as well. The major problem is that the added weight and loss of HP to the wheels makes AWD cars comparatively sluggish to their RWD counterparts. Compare the new V8 s4 vs the M3, and you have an inline 6 that can still edge a 4 litre v8 off the line. But you'll also see the s4 outhandle the m3 in most any situation.

That being said, I really don't get why people bother with an XI at all. The 3 series is, if nothing else, a really fun RWD sedan. BMW has built a reputation around a recipe of a smooth inline six rear wheel drive sedan, just as Audi has built a reputation around their quattro drive. Getting a 3 series with the AWD makes about as much sense as getting an A4 without it.

I will admit I have a tinge of envy when I see the roads peppered with 325xi's this season and my new 330i sport is in the garage wishing for warmer weather.

But just for a moment.

[E24]

Originally Posted by sbrentson

Gang,

AWD can handle better than RWD in normal driving conditions as well. The major problem is that the added weight and loss of HP to the wheels makes AWD cars comparatively sluggish to their RWD counterparts. Compare the new V8 s4 vs the M3, and you have an inline 6 that can still edge a 4 litre v8 off the line. But you'll also see the s4 outhandle the m3 in most any situation.

That being said, I really don't get why people bother with an XI at all. The 3 series is, if nothing else, a really fun RWD sedan. BMW has built a reputation around a recipe of a smooth inline six rear wheel drive sedan, just as Audi has built a reputation around their quattro drive. Getting a 3 series with the AWD makes about as much sense as getting an A4 without it.

I will admit I have a tinge of envy when I see the roads peppered with 325xi's this season and my new 330i sport is in the garage wishing for warmer weather.

But just for a moment.

[B]Agreed. I'm the fool who will have an AWD wagon in Florida of all places. However I need a vehicle (down to one), sick of SUV's, and the wagon fits the bill. BMW is my auto maker of choice so I'm stuck with what will turn out to be one of the only 325 AWD wagons "never driven in the snow." Might be a nice choice for the beaches at Daytona however.

[jmatero]

in terms of the leg/foot room on the passenger side.....sit in both..... the front wheel well intrudes into the passenger foot well and on the left, the console. The BMW's wheels are so close to the front bumper that you have a wide deep foot well. Other's here have mentioned the same thing. Take a look.. it's not subtle.

You are correct, the 1.8T/2.0T engine sound (the bad one) is more noticable on the auto (that's what I had in my Passat). You hit around 3k on the tach and there is a strange resonance that's really annoying on the highway. That was probably the worst part to me as I was hoping they solved it with the 2.0T improvements. I'm sure the next A4 will be very interesting!

[snapper]

Originally Posted by sbrentson

...But you'll also see the s4 outhandle the m3 in most any situation....

.....Getting a 3 series with the AWD makes about as much sense as getting an A4 without it.

I don't know if I'd say the S4 will out handle an M3 in the dry.... every comparison test (E46 M3 vs B6 S4) I've ever seen always has the BMW winning lateral Gs, slalom, and subjective rankings... and I'm an Audi fan.

Agree with the second comment though.

[acd483]

Originally Posted by sbrentson

That being said, I really don't get why people bother with an XI at all. The 3 series is, if nothing else, a really fun RWD sedan. BMW has built a reputation around a recipe of a smooth inline six rear wheel drive sedan, just as Audi has built a reputation around their quattro drive. Getting a 3 series with the AWD makes about as much sense as getting an A4 without it.

Excellent summary...BMW give us the Ultimate Driving Wagon!

BMW for RWD
Audi for AWD, which is why the Avant is better than the XiT

As for snow days...big deal right? Wait for the plow.

[StewtheBassman]

Clearly none of you have driven an E90 with xDrive in bad weather, your remarks are foolish and uninformed.

[noflash]

Oh the drama!

[Compos Mentis]

Originally Posted by acd483

Let me sum up:

330it>A4 2.0TQ Avant>325xit

So, what did you buy? Why are you arguing this point to 330i/330xi owners?

[snapper]

BMW325xit vs A4Q Avant, Car and Driver

[OLD - 2001] Comparison test between the previous generation E46 BMW and B5 Audi. Of course, both cars have been total redesigned, although the AWD "philosophies" remain consistent. Very interesting that many of the same observations are still being drawn. I went through the same analysis in Feb '01 (before the this article came out) when comparing the 330xi against the S4 (same price at the time), and am shopping the same space again.

AWD Wagons

A related article on the Audi's mechanical Torsen AWD system vs BMW electronic x-drive system. Understand BMW has significant changed its x-drive system, but don't think Audi has changed too much.

Torsen vs X-drive

[snapper]

Originally Posted by Compos Mentis

Why are you arguing this point to 330i/330xi owners?

Isn't there's only one E90 forum here?

I'm following this thread since I had exactly the same issues between BMW and Audi in '01 and have just started looking at the new E90 330.

Wondering if it's going to be the same thing: 330i > A4Q3.2 > 330xi. (Although this time around, I'm leaning towards giving up on AWD to get the ultimate handling Bimmer).