Chris Harris of EVO Praises 1M Coupe, Feels Like True M Car! [VIDEO]

[burrito007]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

Ha he'd talk circles around any journalist and lap you over again at any circuit. ignorance is bliss though.

are his hands too small or something? why doesn't he like the steering wheel? nothing he said in that video indicates any real journalistic insight. The stig could lap me on a track too but according to clarkson, no one cares what he has to say

He drove the car and has reported no real new information.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Robert

Ahh, the influx of ///M3 drivers already here to defend their purchase.

Actually I haven't purchased my M3 yet. Should be taking delivery by the end of the week. I put 23k miles on my modded 135i in a year. I don't need to defend my purchase as I've owned two N54 BMW's now and know why I traded up to the M3. As great as the 1M coupe will be, I know I'm going to enjoy the high revving N/A V8 a lot more. I could care less which is faster around the track. Hence why I went with a 6MT and not DCT as well.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I agree, but lets face it. There are fanboys on both sides. Arguing is useless on both sides until the 1M is released and we see real data from both cars at the same track, day, and by the same driver. And comparing a modded car to stock is pretty useless as well, IMO.

I agree, it is useless, and I doubt I will sway anyone's opinion, just had to let off some steam after than ignorant post he made, like anything not developed with individual throttle bodies isn't special, and OMG there is some turbo lag, it can't possibly be controlled at the track!


Comparing a modded car to a stock car is not useless at all.... when I buy a car I look at ALL my options in my price range and weight out the pros and cons.

Some cars will require the aftermarket to get what I want, some won't.......


Also, thank you for buying your M3 with manual transmission!

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by formula M

/agree^^..!

I agree with u in every aspect of the data & spec's... but to me, the current M3 doesn't feel right. The E46 still has the E90 in terms of visibility, feedback, balance, control & floggability.

The M3, has worked out so much, it's no longer an Olympian, it's been governed by marketing for too long. Thus Glorified!

I don't care what you call it, but what E30 M3 driver wouldn't want to get his/her hand's on one?

No dogma!

Personally I think the E30 M3 has been overly glorified. It was a great car in it's time, but you can't get that kind of driving feel without driving a tin can. See the Lotus Elise/Exige for example. If someone wants an E30 M3, go find one. That car cannot be built by BMW today. And the 1M will never be an E30 M3. It's called progress.

Besides I was 8 years old when the E30 M3 was being sold. I don't remember how it drove because I never drove one. Most nostalgia of old cars tend to be just that. Drive the car today and it's not as great as you think. For it's time, yes. But you can't drive an E30 M3 and an E92 M3 side by side and say you'd rather own the E30.

[kinan_sleiman2006]

Originally Posted by as7920

Thanks Scott!

Was hoping Chris had driven it but had almost given up.

+1

[1º]

Originally Posted by burrito007

are his hands too small or something? why doesn't he like the steering wheel? nothing he said in that video indicates any real journalistic insight. The stig could lap me on a track too but according to clarkson, no one cares what he has to say

He drove the car and has reported no real new information.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Personally I think the E30 M3 has been overly glorified. It was a great car in it's time, but you can't get that kind of driving feel without driving a tin can. See the Lotus Elise/Exige for example. If someone wants an E30 M3, go find one. That car cannot be built by BMW today. And the 1M will never be an E30 M3. It's called progress.

Besides I was 8 years old when the E30 M3 was being sold. I don't remember how it drove because I never drove one. Most nostalgia of old cars tend to be just that. Drive the car today and it's not as great as you think. For it's time, yes. But you can't drive an E30 M3 and an E92 M3 side by side and say you'd rather own the E30.

You've never driven one and your going to call it overly glorified? It is one of the best drivers cars OF ALL TIME. Fact, not fiction. It is the MOST WINNING CAR IN TOURING CAR HISTORY. Fact, not fiction.

Unless you have flogged one one on a track, stay away from making yourself look ignorant. In 5yrs it they will be worth more that all the other previous generation M3's on the road of like condition.

I can say that I will take the E30 M3 over the E92 M3 anyday.

Would you rather have an F50 or F430? Duh.


T

[GotM]

I am guessing that some day an M car will be electric powered. I wonder what this equivalent thread will look like then.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Actually I haven't purchased my M3 yet. Should be taking delivery by the end of the week. I put 23k miles on my modded 135i in a year. I don't need to defend my purchase as I've owned two N54 BMW's now and know why I traded up to the M3. As great as the 1M coupe will be, I know I'm going to enjoy the high revving N/A V8 a lot more. I could care less which is faster around the track. Hence why I went with a 6MT and not DCT as well.

Sorry, I didn't mean to point someone out. Just made an observation that a lot of people defending M3 currently owns one.

[malter2.0]

Originally Posted by BMWPower06

I highly doubt this engine will feel like an NA engine. I've driven an N54 335i and the throttle lag compared to an NA M car is just atrocious. There was literally a 1.5 second delay from when I floored it and the car finally got going, utter garbage.

concur with the above. n/a m engines response if staggeringly more instantaneous than n54. night and day difference.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

You've never driven one and your going to call it overly glorified? It is one of the best drivers cars OF ALL TIME. Fact, not fiction. It is the MOST WINNING CAR IN TOURING CAR HISTORY. Fact, not fiction.

Unless you have flogged one one on a track, stay away from making yourself look ignorant. In 5yrs it they will be worth more that all the other previous generation M3's on the road of like condition.

I can say that I will take the E30 M3 over the E92 M3 anyday.

Would you rather have an F50 or F430? Duh.


T

Overly glorified on these boards. Most of the guys who keep mentioning the E30 M3 never drove one. I'm pretty sure most weren't even born when the car was sold. I never said the car isn't great. I'd love to drive one someday.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

That is what you "gungho loyalist" say whenever the debate comes up.

I am sorry. I would love to like the 1M much like I have admired the evolution of M cars from E46 M3 to Z4 M to M5 E60 to E92 M3. I never resisted the idea of V10 taking the place of V8 and a V8 taking the place of inline-6 since the formula of what made them great was the same.

I never once doubted these cars as being pure enthusiast cars without sacrificing practicality since they have all the formula and passion of what makes car driving fun. These were cars that had engines built to fit their chassis. Not the other way around. It is much more than numbers.

Unfortunately, 1-series loyalists can only get defensive when people who are not blind brand loyalists open the debate and don't have the "BMW can do no wrong" attitude. I really wish I could think like BMW brand loyalists or even welcome this 1M much like I had been exciting about every other M car in the last 10 years, but I can't. Sorry.

...what does this have to do with loyalists?

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

You've never driven one and your going to call it overly glorified? It is one of the best drivers cars OF ALL TIME. Fact, not fiction. It is the MOST WINNING CAR IN TOURING CAR HISTORY. Fact, not fiction.

Unless you have flogged one one on a track, stay away from making yourself look ignorant. In 5yrs it they will be worth more that all the other previous generation M3's on the road of like condition.

I can say that I will take the E30 M3 over the E92 M3 anyday.

Would you rather have an F50 or F430? Duh.


T

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Overly glorified on these boards. Most of the guys who keep mentioning the E30 M3 never drove one. I'm pretty sure most weren't even born when the car was sold. I never said the car isn't great. I'd love to drive one someday.

I'd agree with radiantm3. I'm sure it's ultimately more fun to drive, just as a Z4 M Coupe is ten times as fun to drive as an E9X M3, but I still think its legendary status has boosted its experience to absurd levels (and I'm not saying my dream garage wouldn't include an E30 Evo II).

Here's a good read. It's a comparison between the E30 and E92.

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m3/201...mw-m3-e92.html

The Drive
Turn an actual metal ignition key to start the E30 M3 and consider how even this feels curiously retro. First gear in the five-speed Getrag manual gearbox is down and to the left below Reverse, leaving gears 2-5 to form an H-pattern, a racing-style shift pattern that takes some readjustment. Time and again we find ourselves starting in reverse, which is not an ideal thing to do when you're driving a rare classic that belongs to BMW's U.K. distributor. The shift lever is trimmed with microfiber suede and the shift throws are longer than you'd expect, but the action is also lighter than you'd expect, just like the clutch.

This is a big moment. For us, the opportunity to drive this car is like meeting a hero, and that's always fraught with danger. We remember once meeting George Lucas at a party and he was so staggeringly rude and obnoxious that we sold our box set of Star Wars figures. Since we grew up watching Fearless Frank Sytner racing the M3, we don't want to be similarly disappointed.

The cliché "road racer" could have been coined by this car, but perhaps in its old age it has gained some civility. The ride is surprisingly supple, helped no doubt by 45-series 16-inch tires. It turns in abruptly but there's still a beat between input and output. This is not a Porsche 911 RS in retro clothes. It feels like a well-sorted road car, not some track day special.

Nor, if we're honest, does the E30 M3 feel very fast. The history books tell us that this Evo 2 car developed 215 hp, weighed 2,646 pounds, hit 60 mph from a standstill in 6.7 seconds and reached a top speed of 143 mph. These figures might have been exotic in 1989, but they're no more than mildly sporting today. The engine note is no substitute for the missing stereo, either. Compared with BMW's inline-6 engines of the same era, the M3's inline-4 sounds strained and even (whisper it) coarse.

But let's not rip up those posters from our childhood too quickly. What the E30 can still teach us is the benefit of a well-sorted chassis and elegant engineering. There is poise and fluency to this car that the years have not diminished. The chassis responses are so beautifully judged that a rhythm comes naturally to your driving. So many modern sports cars demand a point-and-squirt technique, because their performance is so colossal relative to the confines of the road. The E30 is not like that. It encourages you to think about driving again and then it responds with an enviable repertoire of skills.

[Jameson@Alpine]

theres a reason this car is gonna be limited production...

good stuff, M improving every year!

[malter2.0]

for all the n00bs bashing E30 M3 here is the clip for you

yes, it is outdated and outperformed by many cars now. of course it is! it is almost 30 years old! what you have to remember is that e30 M3 beat its competitors by a huge margin during its era. to dominate so hard speaks volume about car's abilities. it is the sole reason for existence of today's M vehicles in BMW fleet. it is directly responsible why we have great resale value on M cars, on marque following and continued enjoyment.

don't rag on it. ever.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by malter2.0

for all the n00bs bashing E30 M3 here is the clip for you

yes, it is outdated and outperformed by many cars now. of course it is! it is almost 30 years old! what you have to remember is that e30 M3 beat its competitors by a huge margin during its era. to dominate so hard speaks volume about car's abilities. it is the sole reason for existence of today's M vehicles in BMW fleet. it is directly responsible why we have great resale value on M cars, on marque following and continued enjoyment.

don't rag on it. ever.

Who's "ragging" on it?

[Evan135]

Sorry, but some people seem to be putting the E30 M3 on a pedestal and it is making me silly. It was very succesful on the track etc. I have a friend here that has a very clean and well kept red one and I have driven others too.

What is special about them is that they are fun to drive like a spec Miata. Good handling(most of the time, they had a terrible rear axle design) and not too fast so you can run it through the gears and have fun. But...

I would not give someone my cell phone, my plasma TV, iphone and the other great things new technology has provided me to go back 20 years....

So why then would I want give up my vastly improved and modern BMW to drive around in an old M3? Even for track days. They are loud, the engine is dying for balance shafts, and they are merely quick with fun, but not great handling. Try lifting the throttle mid turn in one and you can find yourself looking at the car that was behind you through your windshield.

A classic and important car, yes, but not really a great car by todays terms. I know this will get me into lots of trouble, but many here are looking backwards through rose color glasses. I still love them but they are what they are.

With a complete E9X M3 suspension and brakes, married to a modified and higher revving N54, I would take an 1M anyday.

[Rawhide]

Not getting the arguments here. The M3 is obviously the superior car over the 135 and I'm sure it will continue to be so against the 1M.

While it might be technically possible, it wouldn't make any sense from a marketing and model perspective for BMW to release the 1M and have it out perform the M3.

Yes you can mod things, but you can also strap a rocket engine to a tricycle - that doesn't make it better. The M3 will continue to be the better of the two cars, and for the price they're charging it had damn well better be.

Besides, we all drive great cars compared to the average commuter. Be happy!

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

I agree, it is useless, and I doubt I will sway anyone's opinion, just had to let off some steam after than ignorant post he made, like anything not developed with individual throttle bodies isn't special, and OMG there is some turbo lag, it can't possibly be controlled at the track!

actually the only ignorant person on this thread is you, and i will illustrate why

individual throttle butterflies?
let's see which M cars have had them
E30 M3
E36 M3 (the european one, not the cheap-ass US version)
E46 M3
E92 M3

how about the M5?
E28 had them
E34 had them
E39 had them
E60 had them

maybe the M6?
the E24 had them
so did the E63

Z3M had them
Z4m had them
so every M car made has had them except the X5/X6M.
do you think it would be safe to assume they have all had them for a reason?
i'll give you a clue, instant throttle response!
i've driven the 135 and 335, and the X6M recently.
i love the 135, great car, but it has turbo lag.
even the X6M, tons of power, but it also had turbo lag.

Generating power in a modern engine is no hard task
getting a responsive, wide power/torque band etc are the tricky things
some of the Evo's and Sti's can produce about 400hp from a 2 liter
but try driving one when its off boost, its s l o w.

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

Comparing a modded car to a stock car is not useless at all.... when I buy a car I look at ALL my options in my price range and weight out the pros and cons.

Some cars will require the aftermarket to get what I want, some won't.......

it is actually, and i belive your comment shows you are totally missing the point of an M car
the point of an M car is having a car that one minute is a normal car, taking the kids to school, with regular pump gas, next minute you take it to a track, with stock tires, brakes etc and kick ass.
not a 135 with the boost turned way up, a HPFP about to give out due to the increased load, with track tires, on race gas, that's horrible to drive on the road.
also look up the word heatsoak on google, for another reason why a turbocharged M won't be as much fun to drive on the track

another thing is what happens when the engine of the 135 approaches 200K miles?
it won't be putting out that same power, i guarantee you.
and what happens when something breaks? can you take that modded 135 to the dealer ?
one look at the ECU and they will void your warranty and you are out on your own.
whereas my M3, i can take it to the dealer, and have them cover everything because its stock and the engine can last me 200K miles.

so to summarize, yes you can take a 135 and mod the hell out of it and make it faster than an M3
but that doesn't make it a better car


on another note, to all those that knock the E30 M3
drive one first
i have, i used to own a Henna Red E30 M3
and its the nicest, most responsive car i've ever driven
fantastic engine
25 years ago, the car was way ahead of its time
so when you judge it you compare it to other cars made in the same time period
not by today's standards

[pyrat]

why do people even want a turbo car to feel NA. A turbo car should not have excessive turbo lag, but otherwise let it be, let it spool.

There are many great turbocharged sports cars, none of which were trying to imitate NA engines.

Some people on this forum act like turbos are sissy and don't belong on the track or in M cars.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by kmarei

individual throttle butterflies?
let's see which M cars have had them
E30 M3
E36 M3 (the european one, not the cheap-ass US version)
E46 M3
E92 M3

how about the M5?
E28 had them
E34 had them
E39 had them
E60 had them

maybe the M6?
the E24 had them
so did the E63

Z3M had them
Z4m had them
so every M car made has had them except the X5/X6M.
do you think it would be safe to assume they have all had them for a reason?
i'll give you a clue, instant throttle response!
i've driven the 135 and 335, and the X6M recently.
i love the 135, great car, but it has turbo lag.
even the X6M, tons of power, but it also had turbo lag.

Generating power in a modern engine is no hard task
getting a responsive, wide power/torque band etc are the tricky things
some of the Evo's and Sti's can produce about 400hp from a 2 liter
but try driving one when its off boost, its s l o w.

I get your point, but the assumption that the lack of individual throttle butterflies makes for the N54's and S63's lag seems a bit off to me. It's rather the turbo response time which makes for said lag.


Best regards,
south

[dibxna]

it already frustrates me the 135i is quick enough to hold some pace with an m3... it is going to make me rather grumpy if this new 1m coupe is going to be an actual all around competitor and maybe quicker in some respects for a lower price.

the reason i have my m3 (aside from the obvious techy marvel it is and the incredible performance) is that it is an M car... not that many on the road... I kind of feel like this 1m coupe is going to flood the market because of its price point... yes its good for the sales area... but am i wrong with remembering that acura discontinued the RSX because it wasnt really in line with their company objectives? i feel like producing up cars that compete within the same brand is annoying!

I'm still a lover of cars. a lover of engineering marvels... im sure the 1m coupe will be a great, fun, nimble, fast little beast but it still feels like a punch in the junk that it can compete with me for cheaper from the same company.