BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      08-07-2007, 10:26 PM   #23
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Sadly the 1 looks ridiculous from the front. Hopefully the aftermarket will help out.
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      08-07-2007, 11:34 PM   #24
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The M3 does seem 'beafier' with a LOT more rubber on the ground. Oh, and those that have been whining about the 135i headlights should be OK the M3's.
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      08-07-2007, 11:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Sadly the 1 looks ridiculous from the front. Hopefully the aftermarket will help out.
I thinks the pictures posted in this thread make the 1 series looks strange, but with the right angle it can look pretty good:



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      08-08-2007, 12:16 AM   #26
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Maybe it's just me (probably), but I think the new M3 looks a bit too much like a luxury car and not a performance car. The pics of it on the track look good, but not the ones in a city setting. It seems like if I was a random person and one drove by on the highway and I had my windows up and stereo on, I'd assume it was a luxury car, not a sports car.
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      08-08-2007, 12:31 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darknightohio View Post
I thinks the pictures posted in this thread make the 1 series looks strange, but with the right angle it can look pretty good:


clearly this picture shows that the 1er is either faster than the m3 or the m3 is about to lap the 1er. you be the judge!

PS.. i'm just kidding. but if I hadn't just gotten my new GS350 I'd probably spring for the m3, but instead my deposit is on the 135ci
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      08-08-2007, 03:07 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskurn View Post
For example the hood bump.
The hood bump dates back a while. Loved it on the E46.



If you can watch this video and still tell me you think this car doesn't look 'bmw', I'm not sure what looks 'bmw' to you. Posted this vid yesterday from BMWTV.
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      08-08-2007, 08:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus View Post
The hood bump dates back a while. Loved it on the E46.



If you can watch this video and still tell me you think this car doesn't look 'bmw', I'm not sure what looks 'bmw' to you. Posted this vid yesterday from BMWTV.
Great video. I love the new M3--there's just no way I can justify spending that kind of money--maybe in 10 years, but not yet. :biggrin:

I do think it is superior to the 1er, or the normal 3er, in every way. It is just a badass looking ride--like its gonna come up and eat you. I love it.

If there are things that can be done to the headlights of the 135 to make it more friendly on the eyes--I will get excited again. But without that....I just can't believe something resembling the E92 wasn't a good idea to BMW....
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      08-08-2007, 09:20 PM   #30
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Corrected Times: BMW 135i

0-62 4.6 to 4.7 sec. 5.3 is BMW's "wink-wink" time just like it was with the 335i, which has already shown consistant 4.8's with the 'Step' Sedan.


Corrected Times: E92 M3

Established magazine tests: w/ TWO bad launch's
0 - 62 4.4 sec
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      08-08-2007, 09:41 PM   #31
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2 weaknesses on the E92M3- 1. 295Ibs torque. 2. Few hundred Ibs heavier than 135i. 0-60 is academic, we all know 135i can comfortably do 4.6-4.8s (mag. time not the padded BMWUSA official time) With the price delta of $20k difference, new M3's 0-60 should be in the 3.8 range...(1 sec, or the same difference between a E46M3 and its nearest sibling 330i). From all the specs at hand E92M3 will prob. struggle to get to low 4.0's, or less than 1 sec difference.

E92M3 lovers will taunt its "track" performance, but that remains to be seen..
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      08-09-2007, 02:33 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventually View Post
2 weaknesses on the E92M3- 1. 295Ibs torque. 2. Few hundred Ibs heavier than 135i. 0-60 is academic, we all know 135i can comfortably do 4.6-4.8s (mag. time not the padded BMWUSA official time) With the price delta of $20k difference, new M3's 0-60 should be in the 3.8 range...(1 sec, or the same difference between a E46M3 and its nearest sibling 330i). From all the specs at hand E92M3 will prob. struggle to get to low 4.0's, or less than 1 sec difference.

E92M3 lovers will taunt its "track" performance, but that remains to be seen..

The thing about the M division is they know how to make very flat torque curves and short gearing work to the cars advantage. The E92 is going to be in 997C2S range as far as performance goes. 0-60 in 4.2 is my guess at real world times based on C&D's review. Expect the 1/4 mile in 12.6 at 113 mph or so. It pulls 0.94 lateral g's on the skidpad. Sub 8:00 times expected on the 'ring. Those are C6 'vette numbers, with less torque and more weight. Impossible? That's what BMW M does my friends.
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      08-09-2007, 02:35 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurichan View Post
The new M3 looks like it's going to not only be ugly (at least relative to the 335i Coupe), but also fat and detached.

But if you like expensive video games, what the heck.

What a shame.
The M will be more connected than any other BMW product out, including the 1er. Fat, yes. Ugly, subjective. Detached, I highly doubt it.
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      08-09-2007, 05:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventually View Post
2 weaknesses on the E92M3- 1. 295Ibs torque. 2. Few hundred Ibs heavier than 135i. 0-60 is academic, we all know 135i can comfortably do 4.6-4.8s (mag. time not the padded BMWUSA official time) With the price delta of $20k difference, new M3's 0-60 should be in the 3.8 range...(1 sec, or the same difference between a E46M3 and its nearest sibling 330i). From all the specs at hand E92M3 will prob. struggle to get to low 4.0's, or less than 1 sec difference.

E92M3 lovers will taunt its "track" performance, but that remains to be seen..
3.8secs????????? It's like assuming if you double a cars power, you will cut the acceleration times in 1/2. It doesn't work like that.
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      08-09-2007, 08:18 AM   #35
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2002 lineage

I can see now why BMW is touting the 2002 lineage in the marketing for the 1er. Compared to the M3, the 1er definately has the boxier, narrower, taller look of the 2002. The head on frontal shots in the first set of photos in this thread really show the look. I for one like it.

The 1er may not be the most beautiful car, but it's not ugly. I am more interested in the dynamics and value propositon of the car.

The M3 may be a compelling car, but I disagree with someone in this thread that said it's a pure track car... I don't think that's the case. It's a luxury sport coupe, with the heavy emphasis on sport.
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      08-09-2007, 12:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus View Post
3.8secs????????? It's like assuming if you double a cars power, you will cut the acceleration times in 1/2. It doesn't work like that.
Exactly, that's why I noted "it will struggle to reach low 4.0s".
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      08-09-2007, 12:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddys///m View Post
The thing about the M division is they know how to make very flat torque curves and short gearing work to the cars advantage. The E92 is going to be in 997C2S range as far as performance goes. 0-60 in 4.2 is my guess at real world times based on C&D's review. Expect the 1/4 mile in 12.6 at 113 mph or so. It pulls 0.94 lateral g's on the skidpad. Sub 8:00 times expected on the 'ring. Those are C6 'vette numbers, with less torque and more weight. Impossible? That's what BMW M does my friends.
I tend to agree with you on the 1/4mile time. Now let's look at what will it take a 135i to get there. 335i stock does 13.5s and 105mph pretty consistently. With less weight, 135i will be in 13.2 range. Add PROcede+ Downpipes+LSD (or around $4200) a mildly modded 135i will keep up with a $55k+ M3 (The dealer mark up will be insane! the car could easily cost over $65k), to me that's not half bad. A C6 has a MSRP of $45k, a nicely equip M3 will run into the $60k+ range, now we are talking C6 Z06...

Back to the 135i, add beefier wheels, firmer susp. with the help of LSD, and lighter weight, all for $15k less makes a very compelling story for the 135i.

Ring time can be very misleading, tires along can mean the difference. M3 will have the faster all summer tires, while the 135i will prob. have the run-flats.

Making flat torque curve isn't something that the M division does, that's what BMW does in general. M3 will always have that prestige and tradition (which I love too). But for someone who doesn't have $60k in his left pocket, 135i is a better bang for the perfromance buck..
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      08-09-2007, 12:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventually View Post
I tend to agree with you on the 1/4mile time. Now let's look at what will it take a 135i to get there. 335i stock does 13.5s and 105mph pretty consistently. With less weight, 135i will be in 13.2 range. Add PROcede+ Downpipes+LSD (or around $4200) a mildly modded 135i will keep up with a $55k+ M3 (The dealer mark up will be insane! the car could easily cost over $65k), to me that's not half bad. A C6 has a MSRP of $45k, a nicely equip M3 will run into the $60k+ range, now we are talking C6 Z06...

Back to the 135i, add beefier wheels, firmer susp. with the help of LSD, and lighter weight, all for $15k less makes a very compelling story for the 135i.

Ring time can be very misleading, tires along can mean the difference. M3 will have the faster all summer tires, while the 135i will prob. have the run-flats.

Making flat torque curve isn't something that the M division does, that's what BMW does in general. M3 will always have that prestige and tradition (which I love too). But for someone who doesn't have $60k in his left pocket, 135i is a better bang for the perfromance buck..
I agree that the 1er will be a mod-dream, but that's not the point, as far as I am concerned. You get this same argument from the 335 owners on the E90 pages--with that kind of argument, you are really missing the "point" of the M. This holds true for the M3 or the I hope it gets made M1.

It isn't about modding--its about what the car comes READY to do. The M3 is going to be a beast. Will a modded 335 or 135 e able to keep up? Probably. But you cannot replicate the FEELING of the M cars without some serious changes to the 135 and 335. Those cars have to be MADE into track cars--the M3, and presumably M1, will come that way.

That's why, all things considered, I would much rather have an //M over a non-//M BMW. But it just doesn't work for everyone financially--so you get a lower model that is designed to do comepletely different things--like be a daily driver. And, that's the main reason I think these comparisons between the 135 and 335, M3 and 135, M1 and 135, etc, are not very worthwhile--they are not even close in design or purpose....
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      08-09-2007, 12:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I agree that the 1er will be a mod-dream, but that's not the point, as far as I am concerned. You get this same argument from the 335 owners on the E90 pages--with that kind of argument, you are really missing the "point" of the M. This holds true for the M3 or the I hope it gets made M1.

It isn't about modding--its about what the car comes READY to do. The M3 is going to be a beast. Will a modded 335 or 135 e able to keep up? Probably. But you cannot replicate the FEELING of the M cars without some serious changes to the 135 and 335. Those cars have to be MADE into track cars--the M3, and presumably M1, will come that way.

That's why, all things considered, I would much rather have an //M over a non-//M BMW. But it just doesn't work for everyone financially--so you get a lower model that is designed to do comepletely different things--like be a daily driver. And, that's the main reason I think these comparisons between the 135 and 335, M3 and 135, M1 and 135, etc, are not very worthwhile--they are not even close in design or purpose....
Well, you do pay more for that "feel" so I guess that's a result of a lighter wallet...j/k.

M cars are better equipped for track, but they are far, far from being track cars (M5 and M6 are more rare than a 325i). Not unless you add considerable mods to it so in that repesect its the same for both cars.

Comparisons are great, specially performance ones. Afterall, we are buying/driving performace cars.
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      08-09-2007, 06:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventually View Post
I tend to agree with you on the 1/4mile time. Now let's look at what will it take a 135i to get there. 335i stock does 13.5s and 105mph pretty consistently. With less weight, 135i will be in 13.2 range. Add PROcede+ Downpipes+LSD (or around $4200) a mildly modded 135i will keep up with a $55k+ M3 (The dealer mark up will be insane! the car could easily cost over $65k), to me that's not half bad. A C6 has a MSRP of $45k, a nicely equip M3 will run into the $60k+ range, now we are talking C6 Z06...

Back to the 135i, add beefier wheels, firmer susp. with the help of LSD, and lighter weight, all for $15k less makes a very compelling story for the 135i.

Ring time can be very misleading, tires along can mean the difference. M3 will have the faster all summer tires, while the 135i will prob. have the run-flats.

Making flat torque curve isn't something that the M division does, that's what BMW does in general. M3 will always have that prestige and tradition (which I love too). But for someone who doesn't have $60k in his left pocket, 135i is a better bang for the perfromance buck..
I do agree with some of your points, but you misrepresent a few things for the benefit of your arguement. Like comparing C6 MSRP to an optioned M3. Let's compare base to base. Yes, C6 is better bang for the buck, I won't argue that. I will say that the M3 comes damn close while pushing over 100 lb ft less tq, weighing in an extra 200-400 lbs, and having a usable back seat and trunk. I also don't think that you're going to get a 135i, drop an ECU, cat back exhaust, new suspension, new wheels and tires, and an LSD for $40k. You are also not going to find a Z06 brand new on the lot for less than $70k.

I do believe that the 135 will be damn close performance wise after all those mods, I also believe that you are looking at more like $50k to make that happen.

I realize that BMW cars generally have flat tq curves. Once again, what I said was they use the combo of a very flat tq curve and gearing to do what seems like the impossible. My E46 M3 had 333 hp and 265 tq. My stage 1+ B5 S4 had 318 hp and 380+ tq, plus AWD. My S4 was still not as fast as my M3, that is a fact. Weights were very similar, so that is not a factor.

As far as the 'Ring times go, there is an unofficial time of 8:02 floating around somewhere. I would like to see what both cars can do on PilotSport Cups, with a certain German driver by the name of Stuck behind the wheel.

I think we can agree that both cars are extremely desirable (subjective opinions on looks not withstanding) and they will both be absolute performance phenoms, with respect to the fact that they are sports sedans (and coupes) of a more GT nature, and not dedicated sports cars.
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      08-09-2007, 06:43 PM   #41
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the m3 interior is way nice then the 135 interior
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      08-10-2007, 02:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finink View Post
If you read the reviews this car is a pure breed track car. The weight is a little decieving because BMW has 50/50 on this car also plus the carbon fiber on top to lower the center of gravity. The high reving v8 also makes it great on the track and its supposedly VERY tossable and has great handling on the track.
Have you done much track driving? If so, I'd be surprised that you could make that statement about any 3,600 lb. car, no matter how well balanced or powerful. I would strongly advise against making the new M3 a frequently used track car. It won't be much fun and your tire and brake budget will need to be enormous...
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      08-10-2007, 03:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddys///m View Post
As far as the 'Ring times go, there is an unofficial time of 8:02 floating around somewhere. I would like to see what both cars can do on PilotSport Cups, with a certain German driver by the name of Stuck behind the wheel.
Id rather see them driven by a certain German driver by the name of Sabine around the ring. :wub:


Does anyone else think the 1er's 245 rears will hold it back? It seems like most other 300hp cars should have 255s. The new M3 has 265s.
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      08-10-2007, 03:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
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... Does anyone else think the 1er's 245 rears will hold it back? It seems like most other 300hp cars should have 255s. The new M3 has 265s.
With no real limited slip? Absolutely! Traction is going to be a big problem that BMW chose to slap a bandaid on, i.e., the "electronic rear differential lock". How does applying a brake promote faster acceleration? I guess it's better than having one 245 go up in smoke, but it is by no means an ideal situation.
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