135i vs. the 1M on a road course - No widebody or tune needed!

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by WhatsADSM

Few things:
1) Just making sure you have coded out the DSC nannies.
2) With the right brake duct setup you can run them 24/7 on the street with no issues lock to lock
3) The F30 335i setup I mentioned does come with different disks. I used the 340mm setup which is only 2mm larger diameter but like 4mm thicker! Dramatic difference in thermal capacity. Thickness is paramount in brake thermal performance. Additionally the setup is plug and play, and the calipers can be found dirt cheap used. (IIRC I paid like $240 for a set of grey ones from a junkyard. Came from a 2015 car with like 10k miles on it and even included a set of stock pads I use on the street). Once I get around to selling my stock 135i brakes I think I'll make money on the deal!

... and yes you are correct the civic would suck to live with on the street likely

DSC nannies have been coded out.

That would be great. I could only turn the steering wheel 180* before the ducting rubbed. I’ll have to revisit the routing and give it another chance.

I’ve considered the F30 335i setup, but BBK could be best for my needs. I want to ensure that brake fade and soft pedal is minimized as much as possible. Losing stopping power is getting old lol. Pads and rotors will last much longer and love the ability to change pads so easily and quickly. The lighter unsprung mass in the front is a great bonus too.

Plan is to eventually be several seconds faster at this track so this car will need as much stopping power and reliability as it can get! Thanks for the suggestion though…that’s a great deal you got on those brakes.

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by dbronnik

It's a lot less expensive than you think. The whole front end conversion can be had <3k (very easy to DIY) and all the parts for the functional swap can be had for 3-4k off a wrecked M3 (not very easy to DIY). Sure it's still more money but it's a hell of a lot more car too.

I can’t disagree that it’s more car. But that’s one more upgrade. And it’s now probably faster than the 1M at a track like Laguna. Point was to match, not exceed, with upgrades to a minimum.

As far as the saving money for driver mod is concerned, you're right. But you're far better off buying a cheaper car (miata, e30, brz, etc) and investing in safety equipment than tracking the 135i Lockton track insurance will be cheaper too.

Then you lose the great dual duty capability that I love about the 1er and the M. There are other cars that are indeed cheaper but you sacrifice comfort and practicality outside the track! I feel this car hits the sweet spot for the track, street, and price

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I credit your driver mod as the largest factor in your comparison. It would be awesome to see you drive both a 1m and a 135i and get your impressions on both.

Thanks man! Coming from you, that means a lot. I’d love to drive both and directly compare!

My assumption is my driver mod could not be better than Randy’s. So the 135i did pretty good with all things considered

Btw, amazing one of a kind 1er you have.

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

To help with understeer, would be running a lot more that -2.4 in the front. Closer to 3.5-4.0 would be better IMHO.

Very enjoyable thread BTW.

Thanks for the suggestion… I drive this car quite a bit on the street, so I’m hesitant about constantly changing the camber before/after the track and possibly screwing up the toe!

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Thanks for the suggestion… I drive this car quite a bit on the street, so I’m hesitant about constantly changing the camber before/after the track and possibly screwing up the toe!

It will throw the toe off, so need to set it and forget it. My daily runs 2.3 front and has even tire wear without track use. I am sure you can go higher without damaging the tires. It is toe that damages them, not camber.

If your toe is off a 1/16", you are dragging the tire sideways 150 feet every mile driven!

I always run zero front toe.

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

It will throw the toe off, so need to set it and forget it. My daily runs 2.3 front and has even tire wear without track use. I am sure you can go higher without damaging the tires. It is toe that damages them, not camber.

If your toe is off a 1/16", you are dragging the tire sideways 150 feet every mile driven!

I always run zero front toe.

I came to the conclusion that zero toe is best avoided for my needs because the car is occasionally driven across long distances with heavy cargo. Due to the added weight and lowered stance, there is the consequential toe-out factor (and increased negative camber) so that is another consideration.

In my last road trip to a far track, the front tires were heavily worn down on the inside shoulder, showing signs of excessive toe-out. Car was fully loaded with cargo (4 wheels/tires, hydraulic jack, numerous tools, luggage, other miscellaneous items, etc). Camber was -2.4 with 0.05" toe-in before the trip without cargo. Could use more toe-in for these situations. However, I would prefer zero toe or some toe-out for the track.

I'll continue to tweak the alignment for the best balance, or eventually just deal with constantly adjusting the camber plates...

[MightyMouseTech]

Maybe a better option would be a hitch and a small tire trailer?

[ianc]

I've read that under running conditions, the dynamic effect of rolling resistance will create some toe-out, so starting with zero static toe is a good way to ensure you end up with dynamic toe-out on the road. Makes sense to me...

ianc

[buzz92]

Great comparison between these nice cars!

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Maybe a better option would be a hitch and a small tire trailer?

Unfortunately no room to store a trailer...

Originally Posted by ianc

I've read that under running conditions, the dynamic effect of rolling resistance will create some toe-out, so starting with zero static toe is a good way to ensure you end up with dynamic toe-out on the road. Makes sense to me...

ianc

yes

Originally Posted by buzz92

Great comparison between these nice cars!

Thanks!

[Matticus91]

Awesome vid and driving. Do you have any rubbing in the front with your setup? I'd really like to run more tire up front (on stock sizes atm) but i'm worried about the rub.

[1spirit]

Thanks Matticus91!

Yes, there is rubbing on the fenders even though they’re rolled and pulled. The bumper tab which is shaved also gets rubbed, and sometimes so badly that the tab disconnects on its own on both sides. After a session on the track, the bumper edges bend/flare outward. At an earlier event this year, one side finally broke off and unfortunately there's no longer a place for that bumper screw.

I haven’t heard or met any 1er owners experiencing this problem with 235s so this could be just be my issue, which btw doesn't happen on the street.

[Matticus91]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Thanks Matticus91!

Yes, there is rubbing on the fenders even though they’re rolled and pulled. The bumper tab which is shaved also gets rubbed, and sometimes so badly that the tab disconnects on its own on both sides. After a session on the track, the bumper edges bend/flare outward. At an earlier event this year, one side finally broke off and unfortunately there's no longer a place for that bumper screw.

I haven’t heard or met any 1er owners experiencing this problem with 235s so this could be just be my issue, which btw doesn't happen on the street.

That sounds very dramatic lol. Good to know 235's are a bit better!

[T1M]

Nice mods and driving man! Have you logged your oil and water temps over a 10-15 min session?

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by Matticus91

That sounds very dramatic lol. Good to know 235's are a bit better!

The 235's are what caused the mentioned issues

Originally Posted by T1M

Nice mods and driving man! Have you logged your oil and water temps over a 10-15 min session?

Thanks! Water temps seem to max out at 223*F with 95% distilled water and 5% coolant plus 2 bottles of Redline Water Wetter. Oil temp consistently hits ~285*F even on cooler days (50-60F).

[T1M]

Yikes that's hot. You need to get yourself a large Setrab core and mount it up in place of the tiny oem cooler.

[1spirit]

That's the plan, in addition to the CSF radiator and PPK/1M auxiliary radiator. The engine definitely won't be running any sort of tune until that happens. Fortunately, it runs like a champ on stock boost at those hot temps.

[CarGuyCarl]

Awesome to see this comparison.

[T1M]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

That's the plan, in addition to the CSF radiator and PPK/1M auxiliary radiator. The engine definitely won't be running any sort of tune until that happens. Fortunately, it runs like a champ on stock boost at those hot temps.

Not sure the PPK Aux rad does much it's really small. I'd suggest doing the CSF radiator first and seeing how your water temps look then. That's unlikely to affect your oil temps much and you'll need much more core for that than stock - perhaps a stock location replacement and a secondary core that sits infront of the rad behind the kidneys. An external thermostat that opens earlier would be nice too.