Small, Black, Strong - Interview with Albert Biermann on the 1M Coupé

[ARES45]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Yes, but that will also make it more complicated and expensive to maintain in the long run. However, that won't be a concern to those who replace their cars every few years though.

That is true, doubt many people will be replacing the clutch plates of a DCT in their garage, but it is the price you pay for technology. Adaptive headlights are expensive to replace too, but after having them I don't ever want to go back.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by formula M

None of us race the formula 1 circuit, therefore .01s quicker means nothing. The argument is moot.

I appreciate both technology and not trying to argue which is better but DCT is more practical than just race around the F1 circuit. First there's noticeable difference in straight line acceleration and second great for feeling lazy. Back on topic.

R

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ARES45

So a guy can make a comment about how men drive manuals, and women drive dct, which is extremely offensive and sexist not to mention irrational, but I am the troll for stating a simple fact.

A three pedal is the slowest shifting and will produce a slower vehicle than a DCT, that is a fact. I truly do get the 'feel' argument, but I don't like that BMW is further watering down the performance of the 1M by going stick only. I am not trying to insult those who choose to have a gated gearbox, I am just saying I want the fastest 1M BMW can realistically build and i think they could have put a DCT on realistically. Maybe they will change there mind and add DCT, at which point I will consider it.

The difference in speed is this, a DCT driver will shift perfectly more often than a manual driver and the shift when chosen will ocur faster. Also the numbers BMW posts mean absolutely nothing to me because in countless tests the 08 135i auto has had faster 0-60 times than the manual by .1-.3 seconds and it was listed on the BMW website as .2 seconds slower. BMW lies to you people about times to suit there marketing objectives. This time differential may not mean anything to some, but when you start getting to the sub 5 sec 0-60 times tenths matter.

P.S. There is a great difference between a crappy auto, a great auto, and a DCT. If the CTS-V came with a DCT or even a decent auto I would be on there boards right now.

I didn't agree with the "man/woman" comment either if you'll take note.
Also, his comment was truly trolling, your's just sounded like trolling.

As far as step being faster, NO it isn't. In most reviews of stock Steps and MT's they are both as fast as each other.
The MYTH about the Step being faster is just that, a myth created and propagated by Step owners for whatever reason.
The modded 1/4 mile cars with the Step versions happen to have the fastest times. But, that should not be transferred to the stock versions.
I think some people take other tuners accomplishments and attribute them to their car as if it applies to their stock version. It doesn't.

In stock form the Step is not faster than the MT. Reviews and tests who them to be as fast as each other.
The DCT is slightly faster than the MT, but there haven't been any tests testing the N55 MT to compare it to the DCT, mainly because every review gets the DCT from BMW so they can comment on that version.
Hopefully, some reviewer or test will take the N55 MT version and give us some numbers on that version, which I really do want to see.
Till then, the only numbers we have to compare the two are from BMW.
Their testing isn't any less or more valid than pro tests. BMW just does their tests in a more realistic launch, meaning not as hard as pro reviewers test them.

You keep arguing you want the "fastest" possible car as if the DCT runs completely away from the MT. We haven't seen that to know if it's true.
Plus, the 1M won't have DCT, so all you have is speculation on how it MIGHT have been. We'll have to wait for the full 1M version, which will probably have DCT to get a real world test.

[Boosted_N54]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

Ignorance at its finest.

So the car being slower and not having the latest technology is justified if it makes the driver looks like more of a man than he really is? DCT is faster, and i'm not sure about you but my manhood has already been confirmed... These are performance cars. They should be offered as fast as possible

Oh please ANYBODY CAN DRIVE A DCT

AND NOT ANYBODY CAN DRIVE STICK

not all performance cars have to be offered in DCT just cuz you like pressing your little paddle sifter.. what do you think this is? your control from your playstation game? thats not the real feeling budy

[clar]

Originally Posted by Da _Grk_Tuner

Oh please ANYBODY CAN DRIVE A DCT

AND NOT ANYBODY CAN DRIVE STICK

not all performance cars have to be offered in DCT just cuz you like pressing your little paddle sifter.. what do you think this is? your control from your playstation game? thats not the real feeling budy

Anybody can drive a stick if he/she wants to. Billions have driven a stick. It's really nothing to be excessively proud of.

[theblackangus]

You know, its not all about speed and being a man.

The DCT vs Manual thing is really about cost, and maintainability.
If you are thinking of keeping your car for a long while (like I would imagine most 1M owners are) then the long term cost of upkeep on the manual is much less and fixing it will be much easier.

I work in the technology industry, and my personal preference is KISS.
the DCT (while it is very, very good) is not KISS and wont be for quite a while. High tech isn't what I really want in something that should run for 20-30 years. Good tech yes, but cheap and easy to maintain. This is a car for the track and for people who love driving, its not a 7 series. I read the cost of replacement for the M3's DCT is around 13K while the manual M3's replacement is around 2k (Read on a forum so the numbers maybe wrong), so this is a huge item in the long term view of maintaining the car.

[EmmDrei]

To throw my two cents in here:

My M392 has DCT and my M346 had SMG. Can I stick shift using an H-pattern box? I think so. Can I shift faster than either the DCT or SMG using an H-pattern box? No. Does it matter in everyday traffic? No. On the track? Yes. Because of the speed advantage? No. Why then? Well... when you're actually racing, it helps when you can't shift into third while actually looking for fifth. I have a couple of valves somewhere that tell the story of what happens when that happens.

When you're really going fast, it's an advantage to have both hands on the wheel. That's why you will see nothing else in race formulaes that will allow paddle shifting (F1, WRC). The works drivers shift an H-pattern 320si as fast as they can shift a sequential box. But that is a dog ring gearbox. If they had to run a synchronized box, they'd be slower. There's no technical way around that. So that part of the "I can do it faster than" is simply BS. No, you can't. If the works drivers can't do it, you won't even be able to attempt to try to do it. Unless you stick a dog ring kit in your gearbox. But then you might as well make it a sequential box alltogether. Because that will again help prevent shifting errors.

As far as maintenance over lifetime goes... I strongly believe, that the electronic systems will be able to do less damage to a clutch/gearbox than the average Joe. I am pretty sure BMW has more guarantee costs caused by MT boxes on Ms, than they have from the cars running automated transmissions. Anyway... fact is: the 21st century is here... we won't be able to go back to carburetors even if we think they were really cool.

It's seems to be a fact, that the 1M will only have a MT option, so why go on and on about what would be best? The M DCT is state of the art. I love it. It rocks. And I mean not just any old rock... hard rock like. Very hard rock! But if I want a 1M, then I'll be back to sorting gears manually. So what?

Cheers

Peter

[sparoz]

Manual vs DCT, again? - Well, it's all about personal preference. Despite the numerous advantages of DCT, it is still more fun to drive a manual to the people who love manuals. We don't get a choice anyway - so the only way is to complain i guess for the people who really want the DCT to see if BMW budge and introduce a 2nd year run with DCT option.

[niuniu]

Seriously, give over on the Manual v DCT nonsense. I can't imagine what level you must have underachieved if by this stage in your life you feel the need to get some esteem from a choice of transmission.

If you enjoy Manual or DCT, then fine, enjoy it. That's all - it doesn't make you a man, or a speed demon. There are paedophiles who drive Manuals and DCTs.

[1978.530i]

WTF just happened to this thread? Oh, right.

[The1]

this is why i don't bother reading about any of the 1M stuff.....

all this isn't going to change BMWs mind, they don't have time. They are offering only stick, so we have no choice, and so far, only really the first page of this thread is on topic.

Please, everyone get over it. and stick to topic so i can enjoy reading about what's potentially expected of this car, not some crappy uninformed opinions about something that isn't part of the thread.

maybe it's time for moderators to start stepping in more often with threads that go this far off topic?




ON TOPIC, I think this car looks/ sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun, I think i'll be going to the Detroit auto show to check this thing out and see how it looks in the skin.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by Da _Grk_Tuner

Oh please ANYBODY CAN DRIVE A DCT

AND NOT ANYBODY CAN DRIVE STICK

not all performance cars have to be offered in DCT just cuz you like pressing your little paddle sifter.. what do you think this is? your control from your playstation game? thats not the real feeling budy

I can drive both (obviously). All jokes aside, when i drive Step or DCT I use the actual shifter not the paddles. The paddles feel weird.

Driving manual of course lets you feel the power of the car better. But at the end of the day to post the best times and have the best performance a DCT is needed. It should at least be offered. But of course BMWs marketing strategy doesnt allow that as they need to keep the spacing between their cars.

Looks like BMWs marketing team has gotten to you. Im sure that manual transmission helps you please the ladies better

[Yogijet]

Originally Posted by clar

Anybody can drive a stick if he/she wants to. Billions have driven a stick. It's really nothing to be excessively proud of.

You're so right clar. So right, but the funniest post on this dumb debate is niuniu's (UK) which says:

"I can't imagine what level you must have underachieved if by this stage in your life you feel the need to get some esteem from a choice of transmission." So effin true.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by Yogijet

You're so right clar. So right, but the funniest post on this dumb debate is niuniu's (UK) which says:

"I can't imagine what level you must have underachieved if by this stage in your life you feel the need to get some esteem from a choice of transmission." So effin true.

That's the part that saddens me about BMW building even MORE "affordable" cars; the derelicts that move draws in. Some of the threads around here remind me of the Camaro/Mustang threads on their boards, and NOT AT ALL like most BMW boards.

Maybe 1 series isn't my demographic after all . . .

[The1]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

That's the part that saddens me about BMW building even MORE "affordable" cars; the derelicts that move draws in. Some of the threads around here remind me of the Camaro/Mustang threads on their boards, and NOT AT ALL like most BMW boards.

Maybe 1 series isn't my demographic after all . . .

Go to 911 threads, you'll get the same thing. It's the internet, attitudes are everywhere you go.

and you really can't let a person's comments make or break your own personal choice.

before the internet, did you choose the car on your own? or did you depend on people you walked up to on the street? We are just people (that don't know eachother) passing in the street talking about cars.

I'm sure several of us would never even look twice at eachother if we saw one another, in person.

[ARES45]

Sorry for my part in taking this thread down the dct road. In my defense it is not entirely off topic due to the fact it was part of the interview, and I was simply trying to express my disappointment with BMWs decision.

[The1]

Originally Posted by ARES45

Sorry for my part in taking this thread down the dct road. In my defense it is not entirely off topic due to the fact it was part of the interview, and I was simply trying to express my disappointment with BMWs decision.

no worries, it takes more then one person to argue

[Boosted_N54]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

I can drive both (obviously). All jokes aside, when i drive Step or DCT I use the actual shifter not the paddles. The paddles feel weird.

Driving manual of course lets you feel the power of the car better. But at the end of the day to post the best times and have the best performance a DCT is needed. It should at least be offered. But of course BMWs marketing strategy doesnt allow that as they need to keep the spacing between their cars.

Looks like BMWs marketing team has gotten to you. Im sure that manual transmission helps you please the ladies better

i have been driving manual ever since i got my 1st car.
i like all my cars manual. BMW has not gotten to me (lol)
driving a sport car with a manual transmition is more fun for me


just my opinion

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

To throw my two cents in here:

My M392 has DCT and my M346 had SMG. Can I stick shift using an H-pattern box? I think so.

Why then? Well... when you're actually racing, it helps when you can't shift into third while actually looking for fifth. I have a couple of valves somewhere that tell the story of what happens when that happens.

So that part of the "I can do it faster than" is simply BS. No, you can't. If the works drivers can't do it, you won't even be able to attempt to try to do it. Unless you stick a dog ring kit in your gearbox. But then you might as well make it a sequential box alltogether. Because that will again help prevent shifting errors.

Cheers

Peter

Just for clarity, who wrote that part of "I can do it faster than.."?

I don't recall reading, on these threads, anyone stating they can shift faster than a DCT.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

Looks like BMWs marketing team has gotten to you. Im sure that manual transmission helps you please the ladies better

Oh, that's gonna help stop going off topic.

1M...the lady pleaser.

[Boosted_N54]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Oh, that's gonna help stop going off topic.

1M...the lady pleaser.

yea thats me lol

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by The1

Go to 911 threads, you'll get the same thing. It's the internet, attitudes are everywhere you go.

I disagree. The cheaper/younger the crowd, the more of that same "I'll hate on anyone who disagrees with me because I'm too insecure to interact with equals" nonsense. I'm not talking about fanboys on their own forum disliking interlopers.

It's clearly related to the maturity and sophistication of the crowd. Neither of those will improve with cheaper cars.