N55 135i stock vs PPK vs Dinan Stage 2

[gregthegr8]

Originally Posted by geeyore

Well yeah, I started it up again because I've been looking for weeks for reliable, documented and comparative at-the-wheel dynos showing the differences between the stock 135i (N54 and N55), and the various tunes available: the PPK, the 135is, Dinan Stage 2, Cobb, JB4, and the rest.

I have the N55 PPK, which is excellent, and I've tried the off-the-shelf Cobb Stage 1 Agressive, which did not surpass the PPK according to my butt dyno.

But empirical data? Hard to find. Very odd.

Does Dinan Stage 2 surpass the PPK? Is it worth buying in the next two days before the May 2014 sale ends? Dunno. On all the forums, Youtubes, and blogs (including the tune providers' own sites) there's not a lot of solid evidence to make a sound decision.

I'm with you actually and I've read this thread a few times this month since I've been considering the Dinan stage 2 while on sale this month as well. REALLY tough call. The problem for me is a) I'd want to FEEL it before I decide and commit to buy it and b) I'm worried about the long-term warranty availability issues and what the options are after the 4 yr/50k mile warranty is up. My concern is that there are NO extended warranty options available, but haven't gotten good or reliable info about that.

My thinking is maybe going Dinan stage 2 + some suspension/bushing upgrades is a much cheaper alternative than springing for an M2 in 2 years. You should try to see if you can maybe find some used dinan stage 2 135 or even n55 335 for sale in your area to test drive perhaps? That's what I did and found one, but it's 150 miles away.

[vivanapoli806]

Originally Posted by geeyore

Well yeah, I started it up again because I've been looking for weeks for reliable, documented and comparative at-the-wheel dynos showing the differences between the stock 135i (N54 and N55), and the various tunes available: the PPK, the 135is, Dinan Stage 2, Cobb, JB4, and the rest.

I have the N55 PPK, which is excellent, and I've tried the off-the-shelf Cobb Stage 1 Agressive, which did not surpass the PPK according to my butt dyno.

But empirical data? Hard to find. Very odd.

Does Dinan Stage 2 surpass the PPK? Is it worth buying in the next two days before the May 2014 sale ends? Dunno. On all the forums, Youtubes, and blogs (including the tune providers' own sites) there's not a lot of solid evidence to make a sound decision.

Cobb didn't feel more powerful than ppk? I thought the ppk gives u about 20hp more correct? Cobb stage 1 gives u about 80. My friends car came with ppk and it def did not feel the same as mine running cobb stage 1 aggressive

[Vigilante375]

Cobb is very good for the N54 and its well documented, maybe not on this forum but on another known forum it is probably. Cobb for the N55 (just 2011 models I believe) hasn't been out as long as the N54 Cobb and its not like there are a lot of people using it for the N55. A JB4 is about the only tried and true, well documented tune for the N54 and N55.

Maybe the reason the Cobb didn't feel as powerful as the PPK is it wasn't that much of a jump in power levels and maybe you're not playing around or adding performance bits that its designed to help increase power.

People just look at this stuff way to hard sometimes. If you want a warranty with a little bit of power increase in a TUNE only that keeps your warranty while spending a lot of money, then get the PPK or Dinan tune. If you want a lot of power increase because you're looking at getting the most power out of your engine and dont care about your warranty, then get a JB4/Proced/Cobb/professional tune so you can adjust the power levels yourself and readjust to whatever mod you put on your car outside of a tune.

I'm sure if you would ride in a PPK or Dinan tuned car then go ride in a JB4/Cobb FBO meth and E85/9x mix car.......you'll notice a difference

[geeyore]

Originally Posted by vivanapoli806

Cobb didn't feel more powerful than ppk? I thought the ppk gives u about 20hp more correct? Cobb stage 1 gives u about 80. My friends car came with ppk and it def did not feel the same as mine running cobb stage 1 aggressive

In my 135 N55, the Cobb S1 Aggressive reduced the low-end torqueiness I had with the PPK and lowered the very nice noise from the catbacks. It did show some HP benefits at the higher RPM ranges, but I prefer the big low- to midrange surge of the PPK.

[gregthegr8]

Originally Posted by geeyore

In my 135 N55, the Cobb S1 Aggressive reduced the low-end torqueiness I had with the PPK and lowered the very nice noise from the catbacks. It did show some HP benefits at the higher RPM ranges, but I prefer the big low- to midrange surge of the PPK.

You decide yet on the Dinan S2 with one day of sale left? I always toy with it and then tell myself, with the PPK and 320 horsies, it's more than enough power than I may never really need or be able to use, though the 401 lb-ft of torque is so enticing because like you, I prefer the low to mid-range power.

[TS135i]

For street driving will Dinan S2 give much bang for buck over PPK? I know on the track its another story... Dinan will also mute those PPK pops & burbles I'm reading.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by TS135i

For street driving will Dinan S2 give much bang for buck over PPK? I know on the track its another story... Dinan will also mute those PPK pops & burbles I'm reading.

Let me tell you something friend. You have been mislead. A Dinan tune will NOT mute any PPK PE pops and burbles. I ASSURE YOU IT DOES NOT!

I drive with a grin from ear to ear every day

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by gregthegr8

I'm with you actually and I've read this thread a few times this month since I've been considering the Dinan stage 2 while on sale this month as well. REALLY tough call. The problem for me is a) I'd want to FEEL it before I decide and commit to buy it and b) I'm worried about the long-term warranty availability issues and what the options are after the 4 yr/50k mile warranty is up. My concern is that there are NO extended warranty options available, but haven't gotten good or reliable info about that.

My thinking is maybe going Dinan stage 2 + some suspension/bushing upgrades is a much cheaper alternative than springing for an M2 in 2 years. You should try to see if you can maybe find some used dinan stage 2 135 or even n55 335 for sale in your area to test drive perhaps? That's what I did and found one, but it's 150 miles away.

Greg, fly to NYC and the Doc and I will take you out too lunch. You can also drive my beast for the entire duration of your stay. Test drive away baby!!!

[Cheeze1]

I'm getting the Dinan Stg2 installed today! It will be a week or so before I'll be able to report back but I took a baseline dyno to compare with yesterday. Stock numbers were 298whp/304wtq. I'll report back ASAP.

[Jockey]

Looking forward to it

[vivanapoli806]

Originally Posted by Cheeze1

I'm getting the Dinan Stg2 installed today! It will be a week or so before I'll be able to report back but I took a baseline dyno to compare with yesterday. Stock numbers were 298whp/304wtq. I'll report back ASAP.

I'm assuming those are crank numbers ?

[Vigilante375]

Geez, 298 rwhp and 304 rwtq....stock? That is one happy dyno but as long as you keep going back to the same one is the only thing that matters so you know how much you gain from your mods.

[patricksr]

Just had Dinan stg2 done today and my butt dyno tells me there is a noticeable difference from the 320 hp I had with my 135is. Can't wait to see what it feels like after a few hundred miles. It still has the PPK PE pops and burbles as noted above and much of the turbo or DCT hesitation/lag I noticed before is gone.

[gregthegr8]

Originally Posted by patricksr

Just had Dinan stg2 done today and my butt dyno tells me there is a noticeable difference from the 320 hp I had with my 135is. Can't wait to see what it feels like after a few hundred miles. It still has the PPK PE pops and burbles as noted above and much of the turbo or DCT hesitation/lag I noticed before is gone.

Ooh, interesting to hear and can't wait to hear your opinion as you spend more time with it, as it no doubt will be a bigger change for people going to it from a stock 300 hp 135i, but haven't heard any firsthand experience yet of someone getting it coming from one with the PPK and 320hp starting point.

Keep us posted! Beautiful combo too with the carbon black/coral red.

[patricksr]

I hesitated doing it because I felt that there would not be much difference but my limited seat time so far tells me the difference is startling. I think it is the torque gains more than the 20+ hp gains that accounts for much of the difference I am feeling so far. I will let you know how I feel in a couple of weeks.

[135iMsportCoupe]

Originally Posted by lazyd0c

how does a 135i on dinan stage2 compare with the 135is and hopeful future dinan options?

I'm glad to hear so many N55 owners are happy with their Dinan Stage 2 setup. I had it on my 2010 135i Msport, and it WAS amazingly fast...376 hp & 416 ft-lbs of torque, I believe they advertised. However I had a problem with acceleration in the upper RPMs, which "Steve" at Dinan acknowledged ("You FELT it"?). Turned out I was hitting a torque-limiting parameter. After a year of fingerpointing between Dinan and BMW, Dinan gave me my 2 grand back and I went with the PPK. That was a bit like pulling a big block from a Corvette and putting a 6 banger in its place...but it IS unquestionably under warranty.

[Cheeze1]

Back with dyno results. I did have the DCT fluid changed at the same time as the Stg2 was installed, so that is a variable. Different tank of gas, but same brand/grade. 200 miles later, ~125 with the Stg2 installed. Slightly cooler today. About 5,900 miles on the clock.

Here are the stock pulls, 298 whp / 304 wtq:





Here is with the Dinan Stg2, 309 whp / 350 wtq:






Here is the 'best' run of stock overlayed on the three pulls from the stg 2 (I actually feel a different line from the original pulls was a better run, trying to get the 3vs3 overlay graph but will probably not happen until Monday. I will also get the temp/humidity readings as well, it was slightly cooler today):





So, that brings us to actual gains of...

Peak HP gain: 11 whp
Peak TQ gain: 46 wtq

Maximum HP gain: ~36-38 whp @ ~5.3k rpm
Maximum TQ gain: ~65 wtq @ 3.5k rpm

Dinan claims peak figures of 355hp @ 5.3k rpm and 401tq @ 3.5k rpm. I don't see where they claim maximum gains. If you take the wheel numbers I got and account for 15% drivetrain loss you come out with almost exactly the same numbers that Dinan claims, at the same RPMs. I'd call it a relatively honest advertisement.

As for my driving impressions, I'll have to get some more miles under my belt, but here's my initial thoughts. The experience is dominated by the torque. I think the dyno tells the story pretty well - there is a nice chunk of horsepower available through the whole rev range, but the down-low increase in torque is enormous. In stock config I would get minimal wheelspin in first , and second gear would hook up pretty well with virtually no wheel spin (with DCT higher gearing). With the stg2 I can pretty much roast all the way through second gear, from a dead stop or while already at speed and just hooning it. The big hustle that arrived around 4.5k rpm in stock config now feels like it has been shifted down to around 3k. When you step on it you're going to get moving very quickly. Turbo lag is reduced a tad. Driveability does not seem to be compromised, other than I will now be leaving traction control on in the rain (as opposed to always disabling DSC like I do now) because the torque is that much (I'm still on stock runflats). When you get to the top of the rev range it still doesn't have the spin-happiness that the n/a BMW engines enjoy, but it doesn't fall on its face quite as hard as before.

Overall, is it worth it? The difference is huge, there's no doubt about it. I haven't driven other tuned 1ers to compare to, but for the peace of mind of the warranty, it is the only option, and for this argument, that's all that really matters.

[vivanapoli806]

Originally Posted by Cheeze1

Back with dyno results. I did have the DCT fluid changed at the same time as the Stg2 was installed, so that is a variable. Different tank of gas, but same brand/grade. 200 miles later, ~125 with the Stg2 installed. Slightly cooler today. About 5,900 miles on the clock.

Here are the stock pulls, 298 whp / 304 wtq:

[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...l.jpg~original[/IMG]



Here is with the Dinan Stg2, 309 whp / 350 wtq:

[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...l.jpg~original[/IMG]




Here is the 'best' run of stock overlayed on the three pulls from the stg 2 (I actually feel a different line from the original pulls was a better run, trying to get the 3vs3 overlay graph but will probably not happen until Monday. I will also get the temp/humidity readings as well, it was slightly cooler today):

[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...l.jpg~original[/IMG]



So, that brings us to actual gains of...

Peak HP gain: 11 whp
Peak TQ gain: 46 wtq

Maximum HP gain: ~36-38 whp @ ~5.3k rpm
Maximum TQ gain: ~65 wtq @ 3.5k rpm

Dinan claims peak figures of 355hp @ 5.3k rpm and 401tq @ 3.5k rpm. I don't see where they claim maximum gains. If you take the wheel numbers I got and account for 15% drivetrain loss you come out with almost exactly the same numbers that Dinan claims, at the same RPMs. I'd call it a relatively honest advertisement.

As for my driving impressions, I'll have to get some more miles under my belt, but here's my initial thoughts. The experience is dominated by the torque. I think the dyno tells the story pretty well - there is a nice chunk of horsepower available through the whole rev range, but the down-low increase in torque is enormous. In stock config I would get minimal wheelspin in first , and second gear would hook up pretty well with virtually no wheel spin (with DCT higher gearing). With the stg2 I can pretty much roast all the way through second gear, from a dead stop or while already at speed and just hooning it. The big hustle that arrived around 4.5k rpm in stock config now feels like it has been shifted down to around 3k. When you step on it you're going to get moving very quickly. Turbo lag is reduced a tad. Driveability does not seem to be compromised, other than I will now be leaving traction control on in the rain (as opposed to always disabling DSC like I do now) because the torque is that much. When you get to the top of the rev range it still doesn't have the spin-happiness that the n/a BMW engines enjoy, but it doesn't fall on its face quite as hard as before.

Overall, is it worth it? The difference is huge, there's no doubt about it. I haven't driven other tuned 1ers to compare to, but for the peace of mind of the warranty, it is the only option, and for this argument, that's all that really matters.

If your happy that's all that matters. But for me honesty for the price and for the numbers you put down for me it's not worth it. I'm happy running cobb but I have a n54 so it's different

[Cheeze1]

Originally Posted by vivanapoli806

If your happy that's all that matters. But for me honesty for the price and for the numbers you put down for me it's not worth it. I'm happy running cobb but I have a n54 so it's different

No doubt. For me, with 44k miles still remaining under warranty, I really couldn't even consider anything else. I don't need any more than this for a daily driver though. Of course, that's what we all say when we start, isn't it...

[Jockey]

That's a good report. I've been toying with the idea of going Dinan Stg 2 for a bit now after the PPK.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by Cheeze1

No doubt. For me, with 44k miles still remaining under warranty, I really couldn't even consider anything else. I don't need any more than this for a daily driver though. Of course, that's what we all say when we start, isn't it...

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I drive with a grin from ear to ear everyday!

[gregthegr8]

Originally Posted by Chunner

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I drive with a grin from ear to ear everyday!

And they named an asteroid after your car! THE BEAST!

http://www.weather.com/news/science/...flyby-20140606