Aftermarket Pads Help!

[timhatimay]

I'm planning on some track events when the weather gets appropriate this year, and I'd like to upgrade the brakes (as most seem to indicate these are a weak point). I'm planning to get the cross-drilled/slotted B.P. rotors and want new pads to go along.

I really like the cool carbons, and I've read a lot of great things on e90post. I also like some of the Hawk pads, but I'm very concerned about some of the issues outlined in this thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...221203&page=10

Most of the problems seem to be with aftermarket pads...specifically most seem to be because of franken-pads or backing plates that weren't quite right. So those with the Hawk pads (prefereably one I can use on the street), have you had any issues with this? Are you still reusing the stock plates, do the pads come with proper plates, or are they not needed at all?

It seem the cool carbons don't come with plates either...are they meant to be run like this? Can you use the plates?

I really want new pads, but don't want to trash my calipers in the process, especially if I do a few track days. Any help you can give would be excellent!

Thanks in advance!

Tim

[///M1]

Check with Dave Z, he is among the top gurus in subject matters relating to brakes, have bought pads through him for every single car I have owned, just last week I got the new StopTech Street Pads for the Audi. I am sure he will be able to source something for your needs.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/BMW/E82.htm

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

I'm planning on some track events when the weather gets appropriate this year, and I'd like to upgrade the brakes (as most seem to indicate these are a weak point). I'm planning to get the cross-drilled/slotted B.P. rotors and want new pads to go along.

I really like the cool carbons, and I've read a lot of great things on e90post. I also like some of the Hawk pads, but I'm very concerned about some of the issues outlined in this thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...221203&page=10

Most of the problems seem to be with aftermarket pads...specifically most seem to be because of franken-pads or backing plates that weren't quite right. So those with the Hawk pads (prefereably one I can use on the street), have you had any issues with this? Are you still reusing the stock plates, do the pads come with proper plates, or are they not needed at all?

It seem the cool carbons don't come with plates either...are they meant to be run like this? Can you use the plates?

I really want new pads, but don't want to trash my calipers in the process, especially if I do a few track days. Any help you can give would be excellent!

Thanks in advance!

Tim

In that picture it appears the molding holes were correct, just the proper shim was not used or installed.

Here's the Cool Carbon pieces:



These pads utilize a Stainless Steel shim that blocks heat transfer 3 times better than the standard steel shim with much improved heat dissipation.

Pads are suited for street use and can still take mild to moderate track days. with no noise and minimal dusting.

[timhatimay]

From the pictures I've seen there are some round indents on the back of the stock plates/shims where the pistons reside that I haven't seen on the aftermarket set-ups...if no one else has had a problem running different pads, then maybe I am just worrying too much!

[vitig]

I was thinking of buying the hps. I want to make noise not least because the oem make much noise.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

From the pictures I've seen there are some round indents on the back of the stock plates/shims where the pistons reside that I haven't seen on the aftermarket set-ups...if no one else has had a problem running different pads, then maybe I am just worrying too much!

The round indents you are referring to are the molding holes.

The embossed portions are intended to line up with the pistons so that the ceramic insert in the piston does not hit the hole edge and become damaged when the piston rotates a very small amount on each application (usually on pads not equipped with a shim).

CC pads have these molding holes in the correct location (especially important if pads are to be used w/o the shim),
but also include the correct OE design shims. You get the best of both worlds.

The rear pad D1372 shim is actually two shims with one fixed against the backing plate and a second captive stainless shim on top that slides over the fixed shim with special high temperature grease in between. (Both shims may be seen when photo is enlarged; inner shim is black)

Unlikely anyone else is doing 2 piece except BMW and CC; also correct counterweights on ears should be a casting like OE and also CC.

[timhatimay]

Thanks for the info Tom and others. I placed an order for the CC pads...I'm excited to see how they work.

I'm excited that my aftermarket pads may make less noise than oem?!

Thanks,

Tim

[HP Autosport]

In our experience the only Hawk pad worth trying for track days is the DTC-60 and 70 pads. They can operate in very extreme termps, good modulation and release. The old HT and Blue compounds are hard on rotors when not in operating temps, poor modulation, and can be very noisy. The streets pads don't perform much better than the oem pads other than producing less dust.

[aisthetes]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

In our experience the only Hawk pad worth trying for track days is the DTC-60 and 70 pads. They can operate in very extreme termps, good modulation and release. The old HT and Blue compounds are hard on rotors when not in operating temps, poor modulation, and can be very noisy. The streets pads don't perform much better than the oem pads other than producing less dust.

I completely agree. Don't sell the OEM pads short. The race Hawk pads won't work well on the street, though, so you'll need to swap in and out.

My suggestion is to try a track day on OEM and see what you think before changing them out. Based on the advice of a few local 1 racers, all is did was upgrade to DOT 4 fluid, and the stock brakes have performed great with a firm pedal after three autocrosses and a full track day, all under aggressive and competitive driving conditions for lap time. Unless you're doing wheel-to-wheel racing or long race stints, your typical 25 min track day session doesn't necessitate the need for race pads, particularly if you're not on r-comps, but obviously they provide additional performance if you're willing to swap in and out before and after track days. With this car, I've found money is better spent on tires and suspension first.

[vitig]

I have to change oem through attrition, but these are expensive and noisy. What do you think hp hps?, Accept another option for the street that does not make noise.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

In our experience the only Hawk pad worth trying for track days is the DTC-60 and 70 pads. They can operate in very extreme termps, good modulation and release. The old HT and Blue compounds are hard on rotors when not in operating temps, poor modulation, and can be very noisy. The streets pads don't perform much better than the oem pads other than producing less dust.

We're seeing some great feedback here, thanks for chiming in.

Of course a full race/track only pad would be expected to be better for 100% track usage only; but see also noise and dust. The Cool Carbon pad blends are classified for street use, which can take some mild track to moderate use. Track pads also have the threat of increased pad temperatures, which could affect the ceramic pistons,

Here's some feedback from TR on the Hawk DTC60s and DTC70s:

Hawk DTC60 Track Only Pads (Material: Track Compound)
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...ar=&perfCode=A

DTC70 Track Only Pads
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...ar=&perfCode=A

There is no free lunch, but there are many options depending on one's needs, preferences and driving habits.

Originally Posted by timhatimay

Thanks for the info Tom and others. I placed an order for the CC pads...I'm excited to see how they work.

I'm excited that my aftermarket pads may make less noise than oem?!

That is correct, looking forward to your feedback after break-in.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

Thanks for the info Tom and others. I placed an order for the CC pads...I'm excited to see how they work.

I'm excited that my aftermarket pads may make less noise than oem?!

Thanks,

Tim

Let us know how it goes. I'm interested.

[timhatimay]

It may be a while before feedback...unfortunately my car was the victim of a hit and run yesterday. Maybe I'll do the pads/rotors while its in the shop, but I'm hoping there is no real mechanical damage to the car at this point. But don't worry, the pads will be here this week, and I will definitely give my opinion and thoughts once they are on the car (and the car is whole once again).

Tim