Ethanol and Accessport vs JB4 vs Procede

Venom · 12-16-2012, 03:04 PM

I am not trying to start a tuning war here so leave opinions out of it

Between the three tunes what is required specifically to run an ethanol/e85 map (pure or % based)?
What additional parts are required for each tune?
Which tune is best suited for "get up n go" mapping? (if the percentages change)
Are there any consequences with the methodology of each of the 3 approaches to e85 tuning?

Only opinion based question: if you were to start over tuning wise and went cat-less dps + tune + ethanol + FMIC, which of the three tunes would you pick?

RnmEvo9 · 12-16-2012, 03:29 PM

To run the Cobb OTS E30 map, it is required that you have the supporting mods (downpipes, fmic, and a drop in/intake) as well as the fuel. With these simple mods, I went 12.15@118.50mph while still being on stock shitty runflats as shown here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=644020&page=4

If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't hesitate to pick Cobb again so I wouldn't have the need to send my DME somewhere to get it flashed in order to run ethanol.

Venom · 12-16-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

To run the Cobb OTS E30 map, it is required that you have the supporting mods (downpipes, fmic, and a drop in/intake) as well as the fuel. With these simple mods, I went 12.15@118.50mph while still being on stock shitty runflats as shown here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=644020&page=4

Is FMIC required? Thanks

RnmEvo9 · 12-16-2012, 03:35 PM

Yes, an aftermarket FMIC is required in order to run the E30 map per Cobb's instruction. IAT's would rise substantially with the stock junk intercooler with how aggressive this map really is.

Dmacc · 12-16-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

To run the Cobb OTS E30 map, it is required that you have the supporting mods (downpipes, fmic, and a drop in/intake) as well as the fuel. With these simple mods, I went 12.15@118.50mph while still being on stock shitty runflats as shown here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...amp;amp;page=4

If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't hesitate to pick Cobb again so I wouldn't have the need to send my DME somewhere to get it flashed in order to run ethanol.

While I do agree that yes it is quite a hassle to have to send your dme to someone, to be fair, you can still run 50/50 e85 without the flash, depending on the car and the condition of the hardware such as injectors or lpfp. I ran 50/50 e85 on the procede without the flash for 3 months no problems.

However, the fastest way to see results with e85 and easiest way is to use the jb4 on map 5

Venom · 12-16-2012, 04:12 PM

Thank you

matacuero · 12-16-2012, 04:50 PM

I currently have COBB and have been incredibly impressed. I ran 11.76 with a 40/60 Ethanol-93octane mix, on stock turbos, no meth, and OEM wheels without any dragslicks. I love the COBB.

RnmEvo9 · 12-16-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matacuero

I currently have COBB and have been incredibly impressed. I ran 11.76 with a 40/60 Ethanol-93octane mix, on stock turbos, no meth, and OEM wheels without any dragslicks. I love the COBB.

I am curious since you are protuned, but when going from 3rd gear to 4th, does your timing flatline in your logs?

Sorry for the offtopic OP.

matacuero · 12-16-2012, 05:18 PM

not sure what you mean by flatlining. I had Jake do my protunning so I have a very basic knowling of data logging and protunning. But I can definintely find out if you explain this a litte better. thanks

Venom · 12-16-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

I am curious since you are protuned, but when going from 3rd gear to 4th, does your timing flatline in your logs?

Sorry for the offtopic OP.

No worries bout the offtopic, I just don't want my thread to dissolve into a MY TUNE IS BETTER THAN YOURS argument that becomes opinion based. Seen too many good threads go south without justification or evidence.

RnmEvo9 · 12-16-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matacuero

not sure what you mean by flatlining. I had Jake do my protunning so I have a very basic knowling of data logging and protunning. But I can definintely find out if you explain this a litte better. thanks

Ah I see, in that case I will PM Jake@PTF and see his response regarding this. Glad to see you enjoy your Cobb protune. Time to update what you drive on your profile.

Venom, in all honesty, any major tune you choose for this car will definitely transform your car. I had JB4 before I switched to Cobb and it made a remarkable difference, but I never got to try out the new G5 ISO that is getting much praise nowadays. I switched mainly because I got tired of digging under the ECU box to take off the JB4 whenever I needed to have warranty work done. I am very, very happy with my Cobb OTS map and was pleasantly surprised how much these little twins are able to generate such power with minor bolt ons (I'd say my 135i is slightly faster than my previous Evo9 on E85 which made 414awhp/404awtq on stock turbo).

Venom · 12-16-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Venom, in all honesty, any major tune you choose for this car will definitely transform your car. I had JB4 before I switched to Cobb and it made a remarkable difference, but I never got to try out the new G5 ISO that is getting much praise nowadays. I switched mainly because I got tired of digging under the ECU box to take off the JB4 whenever I needed to have warranty work done. I am very, very happy with my Cobb OTS map and was pleasantly surprised how much these little twins are able to generate such power with minor bolt ons (I'd say my 135i is slightly faster than my previous Evo9 on E85 which made 414awhp/404awtq on stock turbo).

I am asking because in about 3 months I am going to "start" over, mod-wise. Trying to figure out the best way to get to E85 mixes. I was Cobb-centric for the last 6+ months. Still haven't seen a FMIC I want/am willing to pay for(suggestions are welcome). And with the terrible ACN 91 fuel we get, I want an alternative source for POWAAHHHHH!!!!
I am off warranty, decided against getting extended and (knock on wood) so far my hunch was right.

1911A145 · 12-16-2012, 06:40 PM

Cobb will not advertise it, but if you call them they will tell you that you can run up to 20% e-85/80% 93 mix on the stage 2 map with just downpipes. When you get the intercooler to boot you can then bump it up to the e30 map...

Venom · 12-16-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1911A145

Cobb will not advertise it, but if you call them they will tell you that you can run up to 20% e-85/80% 93 mix on the stage 2 map with just downpipes. When you get the intercooler to boot you can then bump it up to the e30 map...

I am on ACN 91 though

no 93 here

matacuero · 12-16-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Ah I see, in that case I will PM Jake@PTF and see his response regarding this. Glad to see you enjoy your Cobb protune. Time to update what you drive on your profile.

Venom, in all honesty, any major tune you choose for this car will definitely transform your car. I had JB4 before I switched to Cobb and it made a remarkable difference, but I never got to try out the new G5 ISO that is getting much praise nowadays. I switched mainly because I got tired of digging under the ECU box to take off the JB4 whenever I needed to have warranty work done. I am very, very happy with my Cobb OTS map and was pleasantly surprised how much these little twins are able to generate such power with minor bolt ons (I'd say my 135i is slightly faster than my previous Evo9 on E85 which made 414awhp/404awtq on stock turbo).

Jake is definitely the man and he enjoys teaching his craft, which I love. I agree with the advice to Venom. I think any of the major tunes will really give you some incredible power and both the JB4/GS5 and COBBs have great driveability. I thought the COBB was more practical and somehow I feel that is has a better margin of safety since it's not a piggy back and works of load requests, but I think any of these will do the trick!

Stohlen · 12-16-2012, 07:26 PM

In regards to the JB4 "Map 5"... I wouldn't suggest using that for E85. Its called a self tuning map, but all that means is that its allowing the ECU to make the normal corrections it does anyways. Nothing more than an advertising ploy in my mind, because they are just making it LESS mod specific, and thus a less accurate tune that is heavily towards the safe size. A custom reflash would always make more power than an "Autotuning" map would.

I can understand using such a map if you are constantly messing with things, but if you install your mods once and don't touch things, you'd be much better off just getting a proper tune. More horsepower, better gas millage, and overall more efficiency.

SteveAZ · 12-16-2012, 08:04 PM

So, early on after getting my car Stohlen gave me virtually the same advice and basically to avoid piggy-back tunes. Having had a piggy back on my diesel truck and no issues I was a bit skeptical. I now have a bit more experience and for a lot (most) of people, I would agree that this is sound advice. It really depends on your honest long term goals and if you're patient and willing to put in the time, logs, test and retest. I could debate a few of his points with him now that I have more experience, but truthfully I think he's usually spot on but slightly biased.

I went with a JB4 and am in the process of dialing things as it's been a constant evolution of changes and tweaks. It's a slippery slope...

If you are going to run heavy mixes of E85...if you go the JB4 route, you're almost certainly going to need a Cobb as well for the backend flash, and you may even need it at 25%...as of now on JB4 G5 ISO...I do but haven't put in DPs yet (on their way as I couldn't until January due to emissions although I'm not thinking that's as big an issue now).

So, if I had it to do again...I'd likely just start with the Cobb.

Grayson · 12-16-2012, 09:18 PM

Venom,

I'm in the same boat as you, no 93 in my area so ill be rebuilding my car around the PROcede tune, flexfuel kit, DME reflash, and methanol. I opted to go with all PROcede stuff because they're only an hour and half from me.

In terms of a FMIC, you can't really go wrong with any of the proven brands. My car has the HPF and i couldn't be happier.

Grayson · 12-16-2012, 09:19 PM

I forgot to mention that I currently have a COBB AP as well.

Venom · 12-16-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayson

I forgot to mention that I currently have a COBB AP as well.

So you will be going procede instead of your Cobb if I'm understanding you correctly.

Power is too addictive

I really want to try me some e85.

Ænema · 12-17-2012, 09:13 AM

I would suggest the cobb route. It offers a lot more flexibility than the Vishnu flash and you don't have to ship your DME to Vishnu. Even if i had the PROcede, i would still rather run Cobb as the base map over the Vishnu flash because you can tweak or fix any issues you're having at home.

ragingpanda · 12-17-2012, 11:27 AM

I would highly consider JB4 or Cobb before even thinking about going Procede for this reason alone: customer service. Vishnus customer service is basically non existent. Oh sure, they will respond your email or phone inquiries when it pertains to sales, but as soon as you have issues (and you will), good luck with that.

Since you plan on running some ethanol, you will most likely need to run a flash so you don't max out your fuel trims. Sure, some people have gotten away by not flashing, but more often than not, you will need it. Now you will have to ask yourself if you are willing to ship your DME if you aren't local to Vishnu, or flash your car in your own home with the other alternative.

Oh and if you don't believe me regarding Vishnu's customer service, just take a quick glance in the N55 section of e90post and see how many have switched over. I am still amazed how that guy stays in business, but when you get chased away from a market (Evos), you have to run somewhere else.

12-16-2012, 03:04 PM	#1
Venom Colonel 375 Rep 2,388 Posts Drives: M2 Competition Join Date: May 2011 Location: East Bay, CA iTrader: (5) Garage List 2008 BMW 135i [8.50]	Ethanol and Accessport vs JB4 vs Procede I am not trying to start a tuning war here so leave opinions out of it Between the three tunes what is required specifically to run an ethanol/e85 map (pure or % based)? What additional parts are required for each tune? Which tune is best suited for "get up n go" mapping? (if the percentages change) Are there any consequences with the methodology of each of the 3 approaches to e85 tuning? Only opinion based question: if you were to start over tuning wise and went cat-less dps + tune + ethanol + FMIC, which of the three tunes would you pick?
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12-16-2012, 03:29 PM	#2
RnmEvo9 Banned 247 Rep 1,827 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL iTrader: (2)	To run the Cobb OTS E30 map, it is required that you have the supporting mods (downpipes, fmic, and a drop in/intake) as well as the fuel. With these simple mods, I went 12.15@118.50mph while still being on stock shitty runflats as shown here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=644020&page=4 If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't hesitate to pick Cobb again so I wouldn't have the need to send my DME somewhere to get it flashed in order to run ethanol.
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12-16-2012, 03:35 PM	#4
RnmEvo9 Banned 247 Rep 1,827 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL iTrader: (2)	Yes, an aftermarket FMIC is required in order to run the E30 map per Cobb's instruction. IAT's would rise substantially with the stock junk intercooler with how aggressive this map really is.
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12-16-2012, 04:12 PM	#6
Venom Colonel 375 Rep 2,388 Posts Drives: M2 Competition Join Date: May 2011 Location: East Bay, CA iTrader: (5) Garage List 2008 BMW 135i [8.50]	Thank you
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12-16-2012, 04:50 PM	#7
matacuero Private First Class 11 Rep 189 Posts Drives: 135I Stage 2 Dinan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Northern Virginia iTrader: (2)	I currently have COBB and have been incredibly impressed. I ran 11.76 with a 40/60 Ethanol-93octane mix, on stock turbos, no meth, and OEM wheels without any dragslicks. I love the COBB.
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12-16-2012, 05:18 PM	#9
matacuero Private First Class 11 Rep 189 Posts Drives: 135I Stage 2 Dinan Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Northern Virginia iTrader: (2)	not sure what you mean by flatlining. I had Jake do my protunning so I have a very basic knowling of data logging and protunning. But I can definintely find out if you explain this a litte better. thanks
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12-16-2012, 06:40 PM	#13
1911A145 Captain 34 Rep 770 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL iTrader: (4)	Cobb will not advertise it, but if you call them they will tell you that you can run up to 20% e-85/80% 93 mix on the stage 2 map with just downpipes. When you get the intercooler to boot you can then bump it up to the e30 map...
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12-16-2012, 07:26 PM	#16
Stohlen Major 66 Rep 1,267 Posts Drives: AW 135i Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Waterford, Mi iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 BMW 135i [5.66]	In regards to the JB4 "Map 5"... I wouldn't suggest using that for E85. Its called a self tuning map, but all that means is that its allowing the ECU to make the normal corrections it does anyways. Nothing more than an advertising ploy in my mind, because they are just making it LESS mod specific, and thus a less accurate tune that is heavily towards the safe size. A custom reflash would always make more power than an "Autotuning" map would. I can understand using such a map if you are constantly messing with things, but if you install your mods once and don't touch things, you'd be much better off just getting a proper tune. More horsepower, better gas millage, and overall more efficiency.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-16-2012, 08:04 PM	#17
SteveAZ Captain 60 Rep 654 Posts Drives: 135i Cab Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Phoenix, AZ iTrader: (5)	So, early on after getting my car Stohlen gave me virtually the same advice and basically to avoid piggy-back tunes. Having had a piggy back on my diesel truck and no issues I was a bit skeptical. I now have a bit more experience and for a lot (most) of people, I would agree that this is sound advice. It really depends on your honest long term goals and if you're patient and willing to put in the time, logs, test and retest. I could debate a few of his points with him now that I have more experience, but truthfully I think he's usually spot on but slightly biased. I went with a JB4 and am in the process of dialing things as it's been a constant evolution of changes and tweaks. It's a slippery slope... If you are going to run heavy mixes of E85...if you go the JB4 route, you're almost certainly going to need a Cobb as well for the backend flash, and you may even need it at 25%...as of now on JB4 G5 ISO...I do but haven't put in DPs yet (on their way as I couldn't until January due to emissions although I'm not thinking that's as big an issue now). So, if I had it to do again...I'd likely just start with the Cobb. __________________ 2008 E88--Fuel-It! Stage 4 LPFP & PI--PS2 turbos--JB4/MHD--FBO--662whp/604wtq 2011 E90--Fuel-It! S2BL LPFP and PI--PS2 Turbo--JB4/MHD--FBO--546whp/589wtq 2013 Mini JCW--Tune--DP--FMIC--a couple Fuel-It! goodies--265whp/320wtq 2013 F10--JB4/BM3 2015 F82--Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP & PI--PS2 Turbos-- JB4/BM3-FBO
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12-16-2012, 09:18 PM	#18
Grayson Heisenberg 51 Rep 569 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Santa Cruz, CA iTrader: (2)	Venom, I'm in the same boat as you, no 93 in my area so ill be rebuilding my car around the PROcede tune, flexfuel kit, DME reflash, and methanol. I opted to go with all PROcede stuff because they're only an hour and half from me. In terms of a FMIC, you can't really go wrong with any of the proven brands. My car has the HPF and i couldn't be happier. __________________ AR Catless Downpipes \| Berk Full Street Exhaust \| HPF FMIC \| COBB AP \| aFe Magnum Stage 2 \| E93 M3 Front Sway Bar & Bushings \| Michelin Pilot Super Sports \| Hardwired Radar \| Eurotek BBS LM \| Schmiedmann LCI Blacklines \| BMW Performance: Spoiler, Diffuser, Shift Boot, E-Brake
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12-16-2012, 09:19 PM	#19
Grayson Heisenberg 51 Rep 569 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Santa Cruz, CA iTrader: (2)	I forgot to mention that I currently have a COBB AP as well. __________________ AR Catless Downpipes \| Berk Full Street Exhaust \| HPF FMIC \| COBB AP \| aFe Magnum Stage 2 \| E93 M3 Front Sway Bar & Bushings \| Michelin Pilot Super Sports \| Hardwired Radar \| Eurotek BBS LM \| Schmiedmann LCI Blacklines \| BMW Performance: Spoiler, Diffuser, Shift Boot, E-Brake
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12-17-2012, 09:13 AM	#21
Ænema Captain 14 Rep 961 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Arizona Bay iTrader: (0)	I would suggest the cobb route. It offers a lot more flexibility than the Vishnu flash and you don't have to ship your DME to Vishnu. Even if i had the PROcede, i would still rather run Cobb as the base map over the Vishnu flash because you can tweak or fix any issues you're having at home. __________________ "I'm not surprised you get along well with all the other neighbours. If you put fifty children with Down's syndrome in a room there is going to be a lot of hugging." David Thorne
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12-17-2012, 11:27 AM	#22
ragingpanda Banned 321 Rep 751 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: May 2012 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	I would highly consider JB4 or Cobb before even thinking about going Procede for this reason alone: customer service. Vishnus customer service is basically non existent. Oh sure, they will respond your email or phone inquiries when it pertains to sales, but as soon as you have issues (and you will), good luck with that. Since you plan on running some ethanol, you will most likely need to run a flash so you don't max out your fuel trims. Sure, some people have gotten away by not flashing, but more often than not, you will need it. Now you will have to ask yourself if you are willing to ship your DME if you aren't local to Vishnu, or flash your car in your own home with the other alternative. Oh and if you don't believe me regarding Vishnu's customer service, just take a quick glance in the N55 section of e90post and see how many have switched over. I am still amazed how that guy stays in business, but when you get chased away from a market (Evos), you have to run somewhere else.
	Appreciate 0 Quote