Track advice

[bradford]

I've never tried Cool Carbons, but any pad that is designed for the street and moonlights as an autocross pad is going to be inferior to a true track pad...especially one like the CC pads that is designed to keep noise and dust to a minimum.

That being said, changing out the pads in the OEM calipers is a royal pain in the junk, so selecting a compromise pad isn't a bad idea for a novice driver.

[onefastman]

Exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

Now are there any other quality dual duty pads other than Cool carbon?

[larryn]

Originally Posted by bradford

That being said, changing out the pads in the OEM calipers is a royal pain in the junk, so selecting a compromise pad isn't a bad idea for a novice driver.

Agree on all counts (one caveat is that rear pads a muy simple to change)... and replacing pads to even a "compromise pad" will undoubtedly introduce additional squeaking on the roads.. I've never seen it not happen.

I also stand by replacing the fluid should be enough to not cook the brakes. It's FAR more likely to get the tires squirrelly after a hard session than the brakes. So, I'd recommend not replacing the pads.

[Evice]

For fluid ATE Super Blue / Amber is my choice as well and with not-good stock 128 brakes I never had any brake fade problem. Now, granted I've been mainly at Mid-Ohio and I do not know where you had your event at. At mid-ohio especially at the end of backend straight, I slow down from 125-130mph for the turn 7 to 55mph with elevation drop and that's really hard on brakes. But No issues what so ever, no visit to China Beach yet )

Anyway, I'm still having hardtime beliving you are having brake fade. But I know it is irrational to claim that...it just......you know gut feeling, I feel something else is wrong. and that is because I have 2 good friends that I always do HPDEs with (they have stock 135 brakes with upgraded fluid). I guess I am just trying to save you couple bux by suggesting to alter your habits 1st - like larryn mentioned you may not even realize- then change hardware. But again if you feel safer, brakes are the last things you wanna go cheap with. Hope it makes sense.

[onefastman]

Keep the info coming

I will search a diy but I plan on getting JIC suspension so I will have a lot of stuff off so I might as well do pads/rotors while im there.
I plan to do
1. JIC suspension
2. Rear subframe bushings
3. Front control arms
4. Pads
5. Rotors (if bmw doesnt replace them for me)
6. MS dp's (will ceramic coat them and heat wrap them)

Anything else I should consider????

[lib]

Originally Posted by onefastman

Anything else I should consider????

Getting more track time under your belt with this car before you make a lot of changes.




Also, keep a very close eye on your tires (condition/pressure/etc)

[bradford]

Originally Posted by onefastman

I plan to do

4. Pads
5. Rotors (if bmw doesnt replace them for me)

I would attempt to get #5 done before you do #4 then.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by Evice

For fluid ATE Super Blue / Amber is my choice as well and with not-good stock 128 brakes I never had any brake fade problem.

The 100+ horsepower deficit could play a role.

[white911]

I switched the 135I to Hawk HT10s last year for VIR when the 911 was down and did not change them back until last month when the car went in for brake fluid flush. I had also switched to Ate Super Blue before VIR. The BMW dealer did not say anything about the brake fluid. The HT10 is pretty noisy on the street; but for street driving, I prefer the torque to the stock pads. I tried an HT14/HT10 combination on the 911; but, the bias was off since I already had to much front bias. A combination like that would seem to be perfect for the BMW. The downside of this is that our (135I) calipers have too skinny a throat to run a real rotor -- 25mm is just not up to the task for a fast 3400 pound car. The 335 seems to have about 10mm more front rotor; but, ours have more bling. (I run temp strips on the calipers and paint on the edge of the rotors - never should have fluid fade with Blue or any racing fluid) I think the Berk Technology folks came up with a cooling solution.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by white911

(I run temp strips on the calipers and paint on the edge of the rotors - never should have fluid fade with Blue or any racing fluid)

What were your max temps? I was considering doing this after destroying my OEM Brembos in 3 days.

[Evice]

Originally Posted by bradford

The 100+ horsepower deficit could play a role.

I am not sure if it plays a role here as he is a novice driver, meaning he will be slower out of corners, less top speed between corners, which means lesser braking needed. If he was advanced/pro, yes I absolutely agree with you.

Just for a reference. TC Kline 135i race car (sold btw) was topping 175 mph where I was 115-120mph range

[bradford]

Originally Posted by Evice

I am not sure if it plays a role here as he is a novice driver, meaning he will be slower out of corners, less top speed between corners, which means lesser braking needed. If he was advanced/pro, yes I absolutely agree with you.

He's slower out of the corners because he's slower through the turn because he's braking more for the turns.

With at least 100 extra horsepower, he's probably making up whatever he's giving up at corner exit by the time he gets to the braking zone. Then, because he's a novice, he brakes even more than someone who can carry more speed.

[Evice]

this turned into chicken 1st, or egg 1st but I see your point as well. Well onefastman, just go ahead buy stoptechs and get over it

[onefastman]

I wish lol

Although I am a novice I think I was on them pretty hard. I rode with my instructor as well and while he was much faster than I was (and smother) I was able to use my crutch (High hp) to make up for some of it. In the 2nd day I was so much faster and you could really tell with the braking.

[TQ_trackman]

Originally Posted by bradford

I've never tried Cool Carbons, but any pad that is designed for the street and moonlights as an autocross pad is going to be inferior to a true track pad...especially one like the CC pads that is designed to keep noise and dust to a minimum.

It really depends on how agressive you want to get with your HPDE - if you want the best possible braking you will eventually have to go to a dedicated track pad. I have tried several "compromise" pads, including the CC's, and found them all to be lacking as the speeds and, more importantly, braking temperatures go up.

Originally Posted by onefastman

Yes but give me your thoughts, how much better are say DTC-70 vs. cool carbon?

I ran the CC pads on my 335i last year. They were fine at a shorter track like Nelson Ledges (110+ mph), but at Mid-Ohio (130+ mph) I was glazing the pads and sometimes getting pad transfer to the rotors, which would cause pedal shudder for part of the next lap or so. This year I have been running Hawk DTC-60's on my 135i and have had no such problems, despite the fact that my straightaway speeds are 5-10 mph faster than my 335i. The Hawks also have A LOT more stopping power than the CC's, but they should being "track only" pads. The DTC-70's are a little more agressive than the DTC-60's so they should bite even harder.

Hope this helps.

[onefastman]

Good to know, I see 135+ on the strait

[bradford]

As an aside, re: pad transfer. Pad deposits on the rotor is normal course of business; it's when they're unevenly deposited that bad things happen.

A little light reading: http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm

[onefastman]

great info!

[larryn]

Originally Posted by onefastman

Although I am a novice I think I was on them pretty hard. I rode with my instructor as well and while he was much faster than I was (and smother) I was able to use my crutch (High hp) to make up for some of it. In the 2nd day I was so much faster and you could really tell with the braking.

You may think so now, but I can guarantee you that if you keep up with doing HPDEs, you'll look back on your "much improved 2nd day", and realize how badly you drove.

Not a dig at all, and we all start somewhere. NOBODY drives HPDEs well at first, but you'll improve for sure. You're in denial if you think otherwise. It certainly does help to have better equipment (fluid, pads, etc.), but as mentioned already... fix the nut behind the wheel first. These cars are VERY capable for a novice on the track. You are doing something wrong if you are actually cooking the brakes. Why not fix that, before throwing money at the car, and making it so you can continue to simply cover up bad habits (that we ALL initially have) by making it possible to do bad things and get away with it?

It's great that you are going to the track though. Keep at it!

[onefastman]

No i totally agree with you in that I will look back and say that it was so bad. I agree that i need to get better but my issue is that on the strait I cant go faster than 135mph consistently with out worry of the brakes not stopping enough. It is slight but noticeable.