Finished suspension upgrade - Need advice.....

[ianc]

Hi folks,

So after lots of reading and research here, I settled on the bounds of my project, ordered the parts, scheduled vacation\shop time, and just finished it up on Wed.

I decided to go for the following upgrades:

1) Eibach Pro Kit. Didn't like the serious rake of the H&R sports. Don't track or autox, so don't need the adjustablility of coilovers.
2) Koni Sports (yellows). Sold on these instead of the FSD's by the adjustability. Bilsteins too expensive and non-adjustable.
3) M3 wishbones & tension rods. A no-brainer.
4) E93 front swaybar. Might as well go stiff...
5) CDV. Not suspension-related, but a 'while you're in there'...

If I had been clever and dedicated, I would have turned this into a DIY, but I wasn't, so I'll just make some observations, while they're fresh in my mind, talk a little about the results, and post some pics at the end.

Observations on the installation itself:

This was technically not that challenging, but physically very demanding for me. I'm a 48 yo computer geek who sits in front of a keyboard all day, so I'm not ashamed to admit that this project took me 3 solid days to complete, even with the car on a lift that entire time. At the end, my back, neck and arms felt like beaten lead, and the sweat could be measured in gallons. I will NEVER attempt front struts on any car again. Now that I know I can do it, I would much rather pay someone else to do it for me in future. Every job has a hardship\satisfaction balance that makes it worthwhile (or not), and the ratio was just not there on this one... This install makes installing stiffer torsion bars on my 911 look like a walk in the park. None of the wrestling, gasping, cursing and sweating that makes the job such a bear. I can't even begin to imagine doing this job in my garage where I couldn't actually walk around under the car...

That aside, it is finally finished. Getting the front struts in and out of the suspension and the springs on and off was the worst part of the whole affair. It's just a lot of straining and sweating. Cover the top of the fender lip with painter's tape and wrap the top of the strut in a towel before attempting to wiggle it out of the fender to avoid damaging the paint. I bought a set of spring compressors from Sears for ~$50 and they worked fine. Getting the struts back in is somewhat easier than getting them out due to the shorter length of the Eibachs. This was made easier by removing the wishbones and tension rods. In hindsight, it might just be easiest to disconnect everything rather than wrestle with it. Remove the tension rods, wishbones, tie rods, brake caliper, and associated wiring. This would allow you to drop the hub straight down and make removal of the strut much less problematic. A lot more stuff to remove, but no struggling, cursing, swearing, sweating and straining. As my friend said, "sometimes the easiest way is not the shortest way'...

Replacing the wishbones\tension rods was very simple; just a bolt in. As mentioned previously, it does upset the toe considerably. With the car on the lift, I measured from a specific point on the tread from tire to tire across the rear with a tape, then repeated in the front. The measurement was two full inches off! Correcting this to a very slight amount of toe-in (about 1\16") to make it driveable took about 3 full 360 deg turns of the tie rod ends. This was a very simple adjustment to make, and the car drove fine after doing so. I wanted to put a few miles on it to settle the suspension prior to having it aligned. After consulting my ebay bootlegged copy of TIS, I used 165 Nm for the large nuts on the hub and 64 Nm for the inboard through-bolts. Jack up the suspension at the outboard end until it just begins to lift off the lift pad prior to torquing the inboard bolts (normal position).

The sway bar install was cake; the easiest part of the whole job. The bushings are a bit tricky to get in place in the brackets, but you can assemble them a bit outboard on the bar where it necks down, then grease them and slide them up to their correct position. Use 58 Nm for the drop links.

The rear was easier than the front, but still no cake walk. One of the more frustrating finagly things was getting the trunk liner out to access the top shock mounting bolt. You'll need to push the back seats forward, which means removing your baby seat if you are lucky\unlucky enough to have a kid... Also persnickety was getting the springs lined up properly in the rubber isolating donuts and shoving them into place while keeping them that way. Getting the large outboard bolt lined up and through the holes can be tricky or easy, depending. One was easy, the other had me gasping... All in all much easier than the front, but still time-consuming.

The CDV was pretty straightforward, but bleeding is a bitch. Luckily my friend could see the state I was in and stepped up to do the actual bleeding while I sat in the car and rested. It was rather curious in that he completed one round of bleeding and the pedal still felt like crap, then he walked away to answer the phone. While he was gone, I just kept pressing the pedal from the driver's seat, and by the time he had returned, it felt absolutely fine; high and tight. Capped it off and called it done.

How does it feel?

It feels great. I measure almost exactly a 1" drop in the front and rear. That distance, surprisingly, almost completely eliminated the 'way up high' feeling I had in the car. The car now feels much more planted, and no longer exhibits the soft, wiggly wobbly feeling on quick transitions that was so unsettling before. I took it out and bashed it up and down the China Camp road and the limits were comfortably much higher than I wanted to explore, and confidence was high in the way the car would react. No longer were the tires squealing in protest going around corners, and body lean is just about a thing of the past. The CDV also helps considerably in attaining a smooth change both up and down and makes working the lever more pleasurable. I just used a gutted factory unit for this.

When I took the car in to get the alignment, the fellow aligning it was unable to get any LESS than 1.1 deg neg camber on one side and .7 on the other, even with knocking out the alignment pins. We settled on 1.1. Unusual from what I have read, but should be a workable street number without excessive tire wear nonetheless. Factory setting was (according to his specs) .2 deg neg. I can only attribute this to the longer M3 wishbones. My rough tape measure of the toe was surprisingly close and only required a small adjustment to bring it within spec.

Now, what is the problem? I am getting a lot of road noise transmitted into the cabin. I am still running the run flats for now. The plan was to see how the setup worked with them to begin with, then switch later if necessary. And it looks like it will be necessary, as the amount of noise is not acceptable.

On flat or slightly uneven pavement like the freeway (luckily where I do most of my time), there isn't a problem. However, on even small potholes and abrupt changes, there is a pronounced CLONKING from the front that just makes me wince. It almost sounds like something could be loose under there, but I went back and checked everything again for tightness and fitment and cannot see anything obvious. It should be noted that I realized I had also heard a similar noise even with the stock suspension, but it was much more infrequent and considerably more muted. This doesn't sound good, and considerably detracts from the enjoyment of the car where the pavement is not smooth. Luckily, in CA our roads are quite good compared to elsewhere, but still, this is now a top priority to address.

The plan here is to upgrade to non RFT's (probably Hankooks) and assess the improvement, then decide on a future course of action if necessary. I may also experiment with either disconnecting the swaybar or returning it to the thinner factory bar in an attempt to lessen the shock. I have the rear shocks set 1/4 of the way up from full soft, and the fronts are already at full soft.

As far as the Hankooks, does anyone think I should have a rubbing\clearance problem going with 225F & 255R with the lowering of the Eibachs? What are the opinions as to how much difference these will make over the factory RFT's in terms of noise reduction\isolation?

Would like to order these up soon, so any input or further comments\advice would be great. Thanks for reading, and on to the pics!

ianc

[Eyeman]

Great work and post. I had done struts on a car myself once and didn't want to do it again. Even with a professional install I still have a similar noise. I get a rattle from my front suspension at slower speeds over even small "cracks in the pavement" type bumps. I assumed it was my strut bar so didn't take it back to my installer. Then I removed the strut bar and still had the same noises. I plan to get it looked at but haven't yet.

The Hankooks you mention seem the best tire choice to me in your situation. I'm sure they will not rub.

[SlickShift]

I have 225F/245R Hankooks and the Eibach Pro Kit/stock shocks and the ride is 100x better than with the RFT. I'm sure your situation will be even better since you upgraded the shocks too. I also have a 10mm spacer up front and a 12mm in the back and don't rub. I had the 12mm in the front previously and it did rub over big dips, but now everything is just fine.

I get the clucking sound from my suspension too. I'm almost positive it's my UUC swaybar moving back and forth when the suspension is going through its range. It's kind of bothersome but I've gotten used to it.

[Dackelone]

Hi Ianc,

Nice post and pics. I want to do this suspension mod too. I would have chose the same parts Koni's & Eibachs.

As for your clonking noise... I dunno. I guess since otehr people have this noise... I would disconnect one end of your sway bar link and take it for a spin. See IF it still makes that noise? I guess you checked your bar bushings to make sure they are all good and tight. ?

I know in the past... from other car makes(VWs)... I have heard a loud popping noise under really bad broken road surfaces... esp when your on said road and brake really hard... it turned out to be dirt on the subframe where it mates to the body. Or sometimes just loose subframe bolts. Try checking your subframe bolts - to make sure they are good and tight.

[Feyd]

Any chance that the popping is the dubious glove-box shock that so many have had complaints about (like me)?

Don't wanna thread jack, but I just put 225/40, 255/35 Star Specs on my stock wheels and I'm wanting to run the Eibach Pro kit as well. So I'm hoping that someone reading this thread has that setup and might be able to chime in.



Props to the OP for doing this on your own, I did it on my Mk3 Golf many years ago with just a Jack and Jack Stands, etc... and I swore I'd never attempt something like that again. LOL. I can't even imagine what it was like on the 135.

[ianc]

Well, the clonking problem is solved, all is right as rain, and I'm now pleased as punch with the whole deal.

Without making any overt admissions of guilt, I would like to note that it is entirely possible to mount the swaybar upside down, and if this is done, then a clonking noise will be the result.

ianc - freshly declonked

[Jcrewsn]

Just got 225/40F 255/35R Hankooks installed and they're awesome. The noise reduction is definitely apparent IMO and the ride is much softer, but the performance enhancement was the most appealing and rewarding IMO...

As for fitment I put my hand above the front wheel and don't think there is enough clearance for another 1"....could be wrong,but I'm suprised these even fit stock.

I have no experience with suspension so this is only an uneducated opinion

[arrutled]

Originally Posted by ianc

Well, the clonking problem is solved, all is right as rain, and I'm now pleased as punch with the whole deal.

Without making any overt admissions of guilt, I would like to note that it is entirely possible to mount the swaybar upside down, and if this is done, then a clonking noise will be the result.

ianc - freshly declonked

LOL. I always enjoy a good ending

[mephiska]

congrats on the excellent work.

I put those Eibach Pro Kit springs on my Subaru and LOVED them. The Eibachs are just the right mix of streetability and track readiness. I combined them with KYB AGX shocks and it was fantastic.

I was too afraid of decompressing those springs to do it myself, so I bit the bullet and paid the $650 for my favorite local japanese car specialist to do the install. I did the same time/danger calculation and decided to take it to the shop.

I'm going to miss that car, it was fantastic every minute I had it, 8 years and 100k miles, but thankfully this BMW is living up to all my expectations so far, and then some. If I keep it at the end of my lease I'll probably end up doing the springs/shocks combo as well.

Oh and hello in Novato, I work in San Rafael. Our cars are almost twins!

[gan08]

Congrats Inac!! Great work and nice review.

[airs]

Can you post more pics of how the car sits on level ground from a bit more distance? Considering the same setup.

[Bimmer-Bob]

ianc,

Car looks great, and I love your garage. One day I hope to get something a little nicer than a carport...

Anyway, can you elaborate on how the M3 front control arms feel different? I'm looking at different suspension upgrades, and am intrigued by the M3 bits, but must confess that I don't totally understand what they all do...my understanding is, in the case of the wishbones/tension rods, that steering feel would be improved. Any insight here? Thanks!

[ianc]

airs - See below for some more shots I took today. I actually think the dirt the car is sitting on is slightly higher at the rear. Seems like my lens could use a cleaning as well. Sorry about that...

Bimmer-Bob - Glad you like the garage. For many years I've wanted a 'man cave' and a 3 car garage with only two cars is automotive nirvana for me. Plenty of room for all the models, tools and other little-boy gear I've accumulated over the years. The M3 pieces replace the stock rubber bushings with ball joints or much more rigid mounting, so deflection under load is almost eliminated. This translates to a more 'direct', for lack of a better word, steering feel. You get more feedback through the steering wheel, and less motion is required during transients to effect the same change. You are eliminating soft, squishy pieces in the suspension with similar units with more rigidity, and the enhanced steering feel reflects this. Well worthwhile.

After driving this setup for a few hundred miles, some further thoughts: I'm very pleased with it, and the car is extremely competent now in terms of being a daily driver. I feel it is well able to handle the amount of power it has without losing its composure, which is certainly not true of the factory sport suspension. Lane changes (even two lanes) can be made quickly and decisively with no wallowing or countersteering. The car has tons of grip and next to no body roll. I only have one reservation...

I bought this car after owning 911's for over 10 years, first an 80 911 SC, then an 87 Carrera with stiffer torsion bars and polybronze bushings, which was tragically lost in a parking lot flooding incident. These cars had phenomenal handling, and were uncannily 'alive' under your fingertips. You could sense each small movement of the wheels and each irregularity they encountered. You felt completely coupled with the machine in terms of anticipating just what was going on and likely to happen next.

Even after making these mods to the 1er, I still don't feel that almost telepathic feeling of control that I had with the 911's. It's almost as if the steering and suspension, although massively technically capable, are just that tiniest bit numb and robotic at the moment of transience, which disappoints me.

Right now I'm theorizing that the RFT's and perhaps the progressive nature of the Eibachs are the culprits. When I burn through the RFT's I'll know more...

However, I would heartily recommend these mods to anyone with the stock sport suspension. The improvement is leaps and bounds over what BMW gave us and completely transforms the car. As previously mentioned, I did toy with the idea of KW's, but for the price of that, I was able to do the M3 bits as well, which I consider very important to the overall package.

Well, make of that what you will... Here's some pics:

[ILMOSTRO]

This is a great post. You're an intelligent guy. Very thorough.

Can I bother you to please pm me the venders you used for the parts and possibly pricing? This is going to be my summer project.

Thanks Ianc.

[ianc]

Can I bother you to please pm me the venders you used for the parts and possibly pricing?

No bother at all. I used HP Autowerks down LA way for everything: http://www.hpautowerks.com/ The prices you'll find on their website. If you're interested, speak with Harold. He was very helpful and spent plenty of time on the phone with me discussing the various alternatives. Good luck with your project, and thanks for the comps!

ianc

[ILMOSTRO]

Thanks. I know HP and Harold. I bought my camber plates from them. Looks like they'll be getting another call tomorrow.

Cheers!

[HP Autosport]

Car looks great!

[Tumo135]

Originally Posted by Feyd

Don't wanna thread jack, but I just put 225/40, 255/35 Star Specs on my stock wheels and I'm wanting to run the Eibach Pro kit as well. So I'm hoping that someone reading this thread has that setup and might be able to chime in.

I was wondering the same thing

[ianc]

Car looks great!

Thanks for the advice Harold; you got me started!

ianc

[m 135]

Originally Posted by Tumo135

I was wondering the same thing

I have eibach springs/m3 sway and star specs,let me know what info you need.

[thez99]

Im curious, if I was to do such an install (my shop rather) and have the m3 wishbones and tension rods along with the front bar installed..obviously an alignment is needed afterwards, but are there special numbers needed to dial in a specific camber, etc.? Sorry if this sounds retarded, I am no suspension expert so not sure if this kind of mod would just require a regular allignment or special treatment due to the increased neg camber in the front that you get with the bar.

Im hesitant on any suspension mods due to the possibility of clunking, etc. I had such noises after I had a bar, springs and shocks installed on my earlier GTI. Maybe it was the shop not knowing exactly what they were doing, maybe it was the subframe, but just seemed like nothing but noise afterwards and maybe that detracted from my overall feeling but I didnt feel the ride improved from em much at all.

I dont think the ride is that bad on this car at all, hoping that getting new tires might make things a lil more compliant but overall it doesnt feel extremely floaty or SUVish like some describe it as...I guess it could be a bit lower but I dunno

[ianc]

obviously an alignment is needed afterwards, but are there special numbers needed to dial in a specific camber, etc.? Sorry if this sounds retarded, I am no suspension expert

There is not a particular 'number' needed to set camber. Camber is a suspension setting describing the side-to-side inclinination of a wheel, front or rear. Google for more info and the effect this has on the car's handling and search here for what ranges you might be looking for.

Im hesitant on any suspension mods due to the possibility of clunking, etc. I had such noises after I had a bar, springs and shocks installed on my earlier GTI. Maybe it was the shop not knowing exactly what they were doing

Put this in your shop's hands. Explain your previous experience and concerns to them and tell them you cannot tolerate any clunking and that they will not be paid until the job is to your satisfaction. As long as you follow their recommendations, have good communication with them, and they have confidence they can do the job to your satisfaction, it shouldn't be an issue. Easier said than done I know, but that's how I would approach it...

I dont think the ride is that bad on this car at all

I hear the term 'ride' being used a lot on this board whereas it was absolutely never mentioned on the Porsche board I used to frequent. 'Ride', to me, evokes Cadillacs with air suspensions and being able to 'soak up the bumps'. 'Ride', to me, is irrelevant to this discussion. Handling is.

One should not have tooth-rattling harshness over bumps, or crashes which make you wonder if something's broken, or general unacceptable noisiness of course. Generally, a comfortable 'ride', and suspension firmness, predictability and stability are at opposite ends of the scale, so you have to decide what kind of compromise you're willing to make. HTH,

ianc