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      08-17-2010, 10:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe View Post
I'd heard a lot of people say it's more fun to drive a slower car fast than a fast car slow. I was really skeptical about that one but after having the 128i a couple of months, I 'get it' and completely agree.
This is my experience too. I went from a 2007 Corvette to a 128i. The 128i is slow by comparison, but I really enjoy driving it. I can push the red line and enjoy the handling and wonderful sound without getting in trouble.

It's been said the 128i (with sports package) is only 5k less the a 135i. But, when I bought my car, i really didn't find this to be the case, i found about a 7k difference, but that could be explained as being picked over 2010 inventory.
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      08-17-2010, 10:18 PM   #46
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How long will you honestly keep the car? If you think you will get rid of it before the extended HPFP warranty is up then I'd still consider the 135i. Make sure you drive both and decide what is more important to you: reliability and extra $$ in your bank account or performance. 100,000 miles is a long time to be driving one car when you really wanted the other.
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      08-17-2010, 11:03 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ View Post
...

Even a stock 135i is relatively slow.
Not to nit pick, but it drives me nuts when people say that. The 135i is relatively slow? Relative to what, and how is it relevant to the conversation? A Ferrari F430 is relatively slow too. Relative to an F1 car. Ok, but how does that make the current discussion any clearer.

The thread starter is talking about a 128i and a 135i. The difference between these two cars is around 70 HP, and the character differences inherent to a turbocharged car versus a N/A car. It's enough of a difference to feel with your butt-dyno, but in your daily commute, I think most people would find it hard to push past what the 128i can deliver while avoiding collecting speeding tickets.

I realize I'm saying this while driving a 135i, but I made my purchase on a relative basis as well. Optioned the way I wanted it, the cost difference between the 128 and the 135 wasn't enough to pass on the extra ponies, and I was coming from a car that was close in performance spec to the 128, so I wanted a bump.
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      08-18-2010, 12:41 AM   #48
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I think a lot of us go into the purchase of a new N55 car with the hope that we dont have HPFP issues, and the hope that BMW will find a 'cure' before we have our bout with fate. I actually read a thread where somebody postured that a BMW rep said 80% of N54 cars have experienced HPFP failures.. I replied I found that very hard to believe, but until some journal, or Roundel, or somebody comes forward from inside, we are never going to know what our true odds are, as new buyers, of facing the dreaded failure; we have no way to calculate the risk. And yet, I and it sounds like many others, move forward toward our impending purchase with a great deal of hope and also, a fair amount of trepidation, but we are all seduced by the affordable power. This car hits all my needs better than any other car on the market, and Ive shopped alot of them, and researched them all. Everything comes back to the 135i.. So, I left my deposit and am expecting a late october delivery.

I did test drive a 128i because there were no 135s on the lot, and I must say I was very impressed with its power.. It felt fast.. And it wound so smoothly to redline, it was very appealing. But... I come from a supercharged e36 M3 which I recently took a deposit on to sell as soon as my 135i is delivered, and I really like forced induced engines. The 135i just fits my needs really well. I just hope Im not cursing myself a year from now, telling myself, 'You moron.. You knew of the problems, and yet you proceeded anyway.. you deserve having the issues youre experiencing with this car!'

Its almost unfathomable to me that bmw has designed an engine that has been having fuel pump problems, or fuel system design problems, or ecu problems for the better part of 6 yrs, that they simply have no idea how to fix. That this engine has won all kinds of awards and accolades makes it even crueler. Its becoming like the forbidden fruit...

So, we roll the dice, and we takes our chances!! Wish us luck.
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      08-18-2010, 01:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ View Post
No one builds a FI I6 like BMW either, that is kind of a bad point to make.......

I test drove a 128i without sport package, and it was too slow and floaty for my tastes....

Even a stock 135i is relatively slow.
I only meant only that BMW sort of built their reputation on the NA inline six, and to me it's sort of "classic BMW," if that makes sense. Forced induction is a relatively new thing for BMW, although due to emissions and efficiency, it looks like it will become an integral part of their engine design from here on out.

One more point - if you're test driving or getting as a loaner a 128i without sport package and fitted with a slushbox, well, IMO you haven't given the car a fair shake.
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      08-18-2010, 07:12 AM   #50
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I use "TrueDelta" for car reliability information (I do not like Consumer Reports for car info). They report trips to the dealer per year per 100 vehicles. For the normally aspirated 3 series cars, BMW is very low, like less than 20. So only one in five vehicles, on average, goes to the dealer for any reason in a given year. That is where the Hondas (good years), and Acuras are and better than most Toyotas (even before the recent group of issues). For the turbo 6 cylinders, the number is about double. This is a fairly average score for all vehicles in the TrueDelta database. But it means that you might expect to visit the dealer close to once every other year if you buy the turbo car. Some will be worse and some better.

NA BMWs are reliable compared to other makes and types of BMWs. Turbo cars are not terrible, they are about average but that is noticably worse than the NA cars.

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      08-18-2010, 07:36 AM   #51
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So I had to make the same decision about a 128i over a 135i. I really love the power of the 135i, it's totally addictive. But it is quite a bit more money, and I almost always buy only a minimalist car. I decided to go for a 128i after I was able to test drive a manual 128i with only the cold weather package, and no sport package. The car was great (well at least that was my first impression.)

Manual compared to Auto 128i was the clincher for me. The manual on the 128i is much more responsive than the auto. Much bigger difference than the 135i.

I was also able to get it cheap and in 2009, the car had better options than now (i.e. sunroof, and 10 speaker audio.

After a year, I decided to start prepping the car for some weekend AutoX. Tires were first (hankook V12), and this opened the flood gates. Well the tire were such and improvement that the suspension float really stood out. So I spend $2700 on BMW performance suspension + springs. Awesome!! (Do this when you order the car, it is way cheaper)

So $30.5K car + $1500 Tires (winter wheel + tire and Summer Tires) +$2700 suspension = Killer 128i for less that 135i.

I was recently in a 135i again. I think compared to my car the stock 135i is not as much fun. More powerful, yes.

I'm really happy with the 128i plan on keeping it to 85K-100K mi. BUT

I think my next car I'm going to order is a 135i, w/performance suspension and do either PCD or ED......

Your will be happy either way, but in the end you will always be planning to get a 135i next time
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      08-18-2010, 08:25 AM   #52
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i think there's one crucial thing missing.... are you getting this car for fun? or is it going to be the car getting you too and from work? do you own other cars or anything else performance oriented?

if it's just a commuter, i'm sure you don't need the 135.

that being said. If you want a toy. You only live once..... So get what you really want.

if we did everything to be safe or ligical, we'd be living in caves still.

all i know is that i test drove a bunch of cars (had a turbo car a few years back with a few tricks) and nothing came close to the feeling of having another turbo, it's a feeling i long for. the car that came closest was the supercharged S4. I drove a G37, an Hyundi Genisis and some others, all roughly the same power range, but as soon as i got behind the wheel of the 135 (and it was an auto, which i hate) I felt more at home then anything else i tryed.

Sometimes it's nice to let your heart make the decision over your mind. So if you lust for the feel of N/A or don't have a desire for the power and feel of that bigger engine, then get the 128, I'm sure you'd love it. But if you're like me and you lust for smooth power that puts a grin ear to ear in a little car, then you know what to do

p.s. My 135 is sitting at about 15k miles and my only problem is a seal on the door is ripping because someone tinted it poorly. will fix in the fall when i don't want to drive the car every minute of every day due to poorer weather. it's been a great car, and i've put on about 6500 miles in less then 2 months.
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      08-18-2010, 08:28 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The1 View Post
i think there's one crucial thing missing.... are you getting this car for fun? or is it going to be the car getting you too and from work? do you own other cars or anything else performance oriented?

if it's just a commuter, i'm sure you don't need the 135.

that being said. If you want a toy. You only live once..... So get what you really want.

if we did everything to be safe or ligical, we'd be living in caves still.

all i know is that i test drove a bunch of cars (had a turbo car a few years back with a few tricks) and nothing came close to the feeling of having another turbo, it's a feeling i long for. the car that came closest was the supercharged S4. I drove a G37, an Hyundi Genisis and some others, all roughly the same power range, but as soon as i got behind the wheel of the 135 (and it was an auto, which i hate) I felt more at home then anything else i tryed.

Sometimes it's nice to let your heart make the decision over your mind. So if you lust for the feel of N/A or don't have a desire for the power and feel of that bigger engine, then get the 128, I'm sure you'd love it. But if you're like me and you lust for smooth power that puts a grin ear to ear in a little car, then you know what to do

p.s. My 135 is sitting at about 15k miles and my only problem is a seal on the door is ripping because someone tinted it poorly. will fix in the fall when i don't want to drive the car every minute of every day due to poorer weather. it's been a great car, and i've put on about 6500 miles in less then 2 months.
The problem is, alot of us want this car to fulfill BOTH rolls.
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      08-18-2010, 08:30 AM   #54
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I'd still go for the lust...... but that's just what makes me a better lover then the average person i guess :-D
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      08-18-2010, 08:34 AM   #55
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oh, and when i'm driving the car at about the 55-60mph mark, i've seen about 34 mpg on the car, so it's not really a sacrifice in fuel economy at all. however, if you live in the middle of the city and you're worried about fuel economy, might not be the best car.... and at that point, you'll never be able to streach the cars legs in the city limits anyhow, so the big engine is unnecessary, but nice to know it's there when you want it.
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      08-18-2010, 01:36 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by The1 View Post
oh, and when i'm driving the car at about the 55-60mph mark, i've seen about 34 mpg on the car, so it's not really a sacrifice in fuel economy at all. however, if you live in the middle of the city and you're worried about fuel economy, might not be the best car.... and at that point, you'll never be able to streach the cars legs in the city limits anyhow, so the big engine is unnecessary, but nice to know it's there when you want it.
The 135 gets excellent highway mpg! Easily average 30+ at 60+mph.

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The problem is, alot of us want this car to fulfill BOTH rolls.
Me being one of those people. My 135i is my daily commuter and weekend autocrosser. Couldn't be happier
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      08-18-2010, 02:47 PM   #57
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The 135 gets excellent highway mpg! Easily average 30+ at 60+mph.



Me being one of those people. My 135i is my daily commuter and weekend autocrosser. Couldn't be happier
how do you find the car compares when auto-x'd against other cars in it's class?

i used to auto-x but it's been a few years and i'd like to be at the least competative.
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      08-18-2010, 03:08 PM   #58
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In D-Stock, I came 2nd on my first event and 1st by a good margin in my second event. Third event coming up this weekend. The 135 is a great car for D-Stock class. It came 1st place in D-Stock Ladies in SCCA Nationals recently. My biggest competition in stock class right now is a Mini Cooper S on stiffer shocks and Hoosier race tires. I have a lot more power, but the courses in Hawaii don't offer much straight sections to use the power. My car is still unmodified straight from the showroom and still on runflat tires.

In the event that I came 1st in stock class (8/8/2010), my time would have been good for a 3rd place (out of 10 cars) in STU Class against E46 M3s, Subaru STis, Mazdaspeed 3s, EVOs, etc. with stickier tires and suspension mods. The 135 can really be competitive in STU with stickier tires and suspension work. "GotCone.com" (sp) on this site is running a 135 in STU right now.

GoPro video from my last event.


That being said, I think on tighter courses like we have in Hawaii, the 128 is just as capable with a good driver. Hell, that Mini on Hoosiers is pretty darn quick. We have a 128 that comes out but the driver is new to autocross so not competitive yet.
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      08-18-2010, 06:17 PM   #59
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MarkR171... Congrats. You look pretty fast...Im really surprised the stock runflats were so up to the task!
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      08-18-2010, 07:52 PM   #60
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My .02.....

The 128 is a better daily driver...higher profile tires, softer suspension, and smoother power delivery. It's sporty enough that when you want to have fun you can. I read somewhere that people push their cars to the limit less than 1% of the time, and that's for the street racer wannabees. Most people never go near the limit.
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      08-18-2010, 07:57 PM   #61
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"Better" is an opinion.
The "3rd gen" runflats on the 2011 135s (different from previous years) is a lot better in terms of ride quality. The ride is almost as smooth as my brother's C300 Mercedes. The 128 will only have a softer suspension if you don't get the sport package. If you don't get the sport package, you don't get the sport seats, which in my opinion, are a must have. They're great!

As for power delivery, I don't know how the 128 can be smoother as the 135 is already quite smooth. The 135 doesn't feel like a car with a big turbo, it has smooth delivery. People don't push their cars all the time, but it's still nice having a lot of power and low end torque for on ramps, passing, etc. You don't have to be driving at the limit to enjoy the extra power.

That being said, the 128 isn't by any means "slow." It has plenty of power for it's size. From what I've read, the 128 doesn't have the same steptronic transmission that the 135s used to come with, and the 128's transmission isn't quite as good. So a 6MT would be the only logical choice for a 128.
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      08-18-2010, 08:05 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR171 View Post
"Better" is an opinion.
The "3rd gen" runflats on the 2011 135s (different from previous years) is a lot better in terms of ride quality. The ride is almost as smooth as my brother's C300 Mercedes. The 128 will only have a softer suspension if you don't get the sport package. If you don't get the sport package, you don't get the sport seats, which in my opinion, are a must have. They're great!

As for power delivery, I don't know how the 128 can be smoother as the 135 is already quite smooth. The 135 doesn't feel like a car with a big turbo, it has smooth delivery. People don't push their cars all the time, but it's still nice having a lot of power and low end torque for on ramps, passing, etc. You don't have to be driving at the limit to enjoy the extra power.

That being said, the 128 isn't by any means "slow." It has plenty of power for it's size. From what I've read, the 128 doesn't have the same steptronic transmission that the 135s used to come with, and the 128's transmission isn't quite as good. So a 6MT would be the only logical choice for a 128.
Didn't know the 2011 135i came with the third gen RFT's, How do you like them? Have you driven a 135i or 335i with the previous RFT's? If so how do they compare? I've read good things about the 3rd gens.
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      08-18-2010, 08:07 PM   #63
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I only had a test drive in a 2010 135 and never drove past 50mph in that. It only lasted about 10 minutes on good, smooth roads so I can't really compare the tires. I like the tires I have though, plenty of grip, smooth ride (and Hawaii's roads suck.)

I hear a lot of horror stories about the previous run flats and everyone who knew I was ordering a 135 told me "replace the runflats right away!" so I was surprised to find out they're not too bad at all.
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      08-18-2010, 08:23 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Depends where you live man.

Here in Canada, the 128i has Xenon standard and the 135i doesn't have a sunroof as standard. However, the 128i in Canada doesn't have access to the MSPORT package, only a regular sport option which sucks, but at least we do get those sexy 263 OEM 18 inch wheels.

If I lived in the US, I'd totally get the 135i, the price difference between those two is marginal whereas in Canada the price difference between the 128i and the 135i is 8,000 CAD (or ~7.2k or so USD), which was ultimately the deal breaker.

You also have to factor in the cost of insurance (insurance is expensive in Ontario!) and the cost of maintaining a turbo after warranty ends. Finally the 328i is BMW's most reliable car currently, I only hope the 128i follows suit.
The US pricing of a 128i is $29,150, while the 135i starts at $36,250. That's nearly a 25% increase in price. Not exactly "marginal"...
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      08-18-2010, 08:31 PM   #65
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Quote:
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"Better" is an opinion.....
Absolutely, and it's my opinion, the most important one

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Originally Posted by MarkR171 View Post
....The 128 will only have a softer suspension if you don't get the sport package.......
Correct, and one of the deciding factors for me. I find the 128 suspension more desirable....to me ....for the vast majority of the driving I do.

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Originally Posted by MarkR171 View Post
....As for power delivery, I don't know how the 128 can be smoother as the 135 is already quite smooth. The 135 doesn't feel like a car with a big turbo, it has smooth delivery. People don't push their cars all the time, but it's still nice having a lot of power and low end torque for on ramps, passing, etc. You don't have to be driving at the limit to enjoy the extra power....
Smoother as in throttle response isn't as touchy. Some prefer a more harsh response, I don't anymore.

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.....You don't have to be driving at the limit to enjoy the extra power...
Then why pay for it? Think about what you just said.

Somebody already said it - what do YOU expect out of the car? That's what your decisions should be based on.
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      08-18-2010, 11:34 PM   #66
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Smoother as in throttle response isn't as touchy. Some prefer a more harsh response, I don't anymore.
Point taken. With a MT, you don't get to choose level of response like you do with the AT/DCT.

Quote:
Then why pay for it? Think about what you just said.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I meant I still enjoy the extra power driving around town and on normal highway trips. One does not need to be driving at the limit to experience the extra power and enjoy it. To me, it's nice to have on every drive. I like it when the car accelerates with very little effort no matter what gear it's in. Going 60-65 on the highway, it can easily accelerate to pass while still in 7th gear at 2000rpm (DCT.)

Quote:
Somebody already said it - what do YOU expect out of the car? That's what your decisions should be based on.
This.

My only point is, if the OP really wants a 135 but is holding back only because of the risk of HPFP failure, I say get the 135. If the OP is 100% satisfied with the 128 (and not just "settling for" the 128), the 128 is a great choice too.
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