VISHNU Procede

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by maxnix

No, usually the opposite as ambient airflow at highway, let alone high speeds, cannot be duplicated so things get hot, except for under hood intakes like DCI which work better since the hood is open. A mixed bag, at the minimum.

Timed passes in two directions closely together in time mean more than wheel dynamometers with so many uncontrolled factors.

But, Ive been in numerous dyno sessions, and its a rare operation that has a fan that can approximate the airflow through the intercooler at 70 mph on the hwy.. Isnt that a factor?

[burger16b]

If you want forced air that is blowing enough cold air, try having someone blow air with a landscaping backpack blower. I have a STIHL BR 600 which blows
"AIR VOLUME
With tube: 1210 m3/h (712 cfm)
Without tube: 1720 m3/h (1,012 cfm)
AIR VELOCITY
90 m/sec. (201 mph)"

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by burger16b

If you want forced air that is blowing enough cold air, try having someone blow air with a landscaping backpack blower. I have a STIHL BR 600 which blows
"AIR VOLUME
With tube: 1210 m3/h (712 cfm)
Without tube: 1720 m3/h (1,012 cfm)
AIR VELOCITY
90 m/sec. (201 mph)"

Now, that might just skew the dyno result a hair favorably!

[J5isalive]

Originally Posted by burger16b

If you want forced air that is blowing enough cold air, try having someone blow air with a landscaping backpack blower. I have a STIHL BR 600 which blows
"AIR VOLUME
With tube: 1210 m3/h (712 cfm)
Without tube: 1720 m3/h (1,012 cfm)
AIR VELOCITY
90 m/sec. (201 mph)"

Hope you have about 12 more of those, so we can actually approximate the airflow over the entire intercooler at 70mph...

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

I challenge that. I see no evidence that any aftermarket intakes are better than the OEM intake.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444223

I know that's not extensive proof, but it's at least interesting. Can't deny that with a tune, aftermarket intakes do more than sound good.

JB3 and Procede both consider intake mods in their maps for a reason.

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by Jeef Beef

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444223

I know that's not extensive proof, but it's at least interesting. Can't deny that with a tune, aftermarket intakes do more than sound good.

JB3 and Procede both consider intake mods in their maps for a reason.

I am all about more power. I've got a PROcede, downpipes, full exhaust, charge pipe, intercooler, blowoff valve and methanol kit.

I thought long and hard about all my mods and did my research. Obviously I decided to go with the OEM intake over any of the aftermarket offerings.

[Orlin]

I did just see a thread on a different forum with a dyno image of JB3
map 5 only : 325hp -361tq
map 5 with BMS Drop in : 347hp - 376tq

Some decent pickup there with the drop in added.

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by maxnix

1.) Oh, I think that is very easy to do. OEM spend over a million in R&D to place intakes in high pressure areas, assure proper draining if water is ingested and tune in resonances to help nullify standing waves. After market do not.

That's why every time some one claims a filter yields horsepower gains, I look for the OEM filter and no filter baselines. The latter are almost never done.

2.) Gee, I don't know. Do either or both sell any intake systems?
And what precisely do they "consider"? Greater airflow because of less filtering? Isn't the tuning software meant to react to air flow volume regardless of what it is, within the given parameters?

Sorry, but intake systems also have to comply with noise and emissions regulations. Free flowing intakes do not have to comply with these restrictive parameters. That's like saying aftermarket exhausts will do nothing for power because OEM systems are developed with "millions of dollars of R&D."

Please provide hard evidence where an aftermarket intake, when used in conjunction with a tune has done 'nothing' like you claim.

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by maxnix

1.) Which are? I have never heard of these federal requirements.

2.) What exactly are "free flowing intakes" and to which "restrictive parameters" are you referring?

1. You really want to argue that the EPA does not have regulations on the noise emissions for a car? Okay wow. I guess it's just like how engine braking 'is very bad for your car'.

Considering you're in the USA and have different laws to compared to our Australian Design Rules, you should check up your statute for the maximum amount of noise that intake systems are allowed to emit in your state.

If you didn't know, "OEM automotive manufacturers have many regulations to adhere to. One of these is noise. A properly tuned intake tract produces a rather audible intake noise under high airflow conditions. Stock systems are "untuned" to allow the vehicle to pass EPA and DOT noise regulations..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

Under clause 20 of The Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2000 in New South Wales, 'it is an offence
to modify an engine’s air intake when it results in an engine noise level exceeding the maximum level specified in the Regulation.' It follows that BMW has to comply with the noise limit in its manufacture of the air intake system. Resonators are placed in the airbox to cut down on the noise.

Schedule 1 of the statute defines the limits for each class of vehicle.
"..(c) for a motor cycle designed or manufactured for use on a road that was built on or after 1 March 1984—94 dB(A)."

2. As quoted above, a well tuned intake system should produce a very audible noise. The stock intake system is quiet on our cars. Resonators restrict airflow and increase pumping losses for the engine. With a tune and high boost levels, the losses become more noticeable. Now, if you're running stock boost, it might make no difference. Free flowing intakes delete resonators and provide a straight entry of air into the intake pipe. Open the stock airbox and take a look at the path that air has to take before going into the engine.

Again, what I'm saying has been backed up by the dyno numbers I posted up in my previous reply. Please submit your hard evidence to prove that intakes do nothing for power WHEN IT IS TUNED.

[V1_R]

Jeef Beef:

[bryce]

Originally Posted by PersianPete

Jeef Beef:

I don't understand how people can still deny DCI produces more power, let alone bring forward the OEM argument.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by maxnix

1.) The noise limits are for exhaust. If your intake is louder than your exhaust, you probably have a problem.

2.) Intake tracts, as does any moving column of air, does produce standing waves whose frequency varies by the speed and volume of the air. That is why many OEM systems have resonant chambers to accentuate these waves at certain RPM and no aftermarket units do.

To say a stock system is "untuned" is sheer ignorance.

maxnix, i don't think anyone said the stock airbox/system is untuned

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by maxnix

1.) The noise limits are for exhaust. If your intake is louder than your exhaust, you probably have a problem.

2.) Intake tracts, as does any moving column of air, does produce standing waves whose frequency varies by the speed and volume of the air. That is why many OEM systems have resonant chambers to accentuate these waves at certain RPM and no aftermarket units do.

To say a stock system is "untuned" is sheer ignorance.

bottom line is if your upping boost your gonna need a lot more air than the stock airbox is designed for...so go stick ur resonant chambers where they belong

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by PersianPete

Jeef Beef:

Originally Posted by bryce

maxnix, i don't think anyone said the stock airbox/system is untuned

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

bottom line is if your upping boost your gonna need a lot more air than the stock airbox is designed for...so go stick ur resonant chambers where they belong

Thanks guys, you seem to see sense.

Originally Posted by maxnix

1.) The noise limits are for exhaust. If your intake is louder than your exhaust, you probably have a problem.

2.) Intake tracts, as does any moving column of air, does produce standing waves whose frequency varies by the speed and volume of the air. That is why many OEM systems have resonant chambers to accentuate these waves at certain RPM and no aftermarket units do.

To say a stock system is "untuned" is sheer ignorance.

1. Mate, it states CLEARLY in the statute that the regulation is related to the INTAKE that affects ENGINE noise. Let me quote it for you again:

The Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2000 (NSW)

Clause 20: 'it is an offence to modify an engine’s air intake when it results in an engine noise level exceeding the maximum level specified in the Regulation.'

The maximum level is defined in Schedule 1
"..(c) for a motor cycle designed or manufactured for use on a road that was built on or after 1 March 1984—94 dB(A)."

I'm not sure if you understand how legislation works, but to me that seems pretty bloody clear. 94 decibels isn't even that loud considering they measure the noise from about 4 feet away. Have you ever heard an aftermarket intake system? If you're standing that close the car the induction noise is enough to make you want to walk away. The STOCK airbox however, meets this noise regulation and muffles the sound.

Being all high and mighty and suggesting that I 'believe in the wiki' is all well and good as an argument, but where the hell is your own evidence? I have quoted dyno numbers to substantiate my claims. I have quoted law to demonstrate that there are in fact regulations relevant to OEM airbox designs. I have quoted one wiki source out of sheer convenience and you seem to be jumping on that fact straight away. Now, I may very well be wrong in everything I've said, but I will only concede that fact if you bring in some evidence to support your stance. Merely telling me how ignorant I am for believing a source that is usually very accurate is not sufficient.

2. I don't recall saying they are completely untuned. You have taken my words out of context. The OEM airbox is obviously "untuned" for maximum performance since it has to comply with local regulations, it is still "tuned" in the sense that it provides the best performance WHILE also complying with noise emissions. The resonators perform this function by reducing the efficiency of the intake.