Is it even reasonable to compare 135i vs. Z4M?

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

Balls, it's obvious you love your M Coupe and it is a great car. For a "fun" car and occasional track car, I also considered the M Coupe or M Roadster, along with the 135i. In the end, the value of the 135i won out for me, as a new M Coupe or M Roadster is significantly more expensive in Canada compared to a basic 135i coupe with no options other than the M sport package. And after doing some research in terms of performance (straight line acceleration, handling, laptimes, etc), I felt I didn't give up that much when choosing the 1er.

I'm not going to go into straight line acceleration, as I think the 2 cars are so close that it's really a driver's race. As I track my car, the more important thing for me is the handling aspect. There has never been a head to head comparison between the M coupe and 135i, but the data from various magazines is consistent......there is NO significant difference between the 2 when it comes to actual grip and handling, even with stock tires.

Road & Track (M Coupe/135i):
200ft skidpad: 0.88g/0.91g
700ft slalom: 70.5mph/70.6mph

Car & Driver (M Coupe/135i):
328ft skidpad: 0.89g/0.89g

Motortrend (M Coupe/135i):
lateral acceleration: 0.90g/0.94g
figure 8 course: 25.8s/25.2s

Sport Auto (M Coupe/135i):
Hockenheim laptime: 1.17,2 min/1.17,4 min

Consistently, the 135i has been shown to have very high limits when it comes to grip. The main problem is that BMW has tuned the suspension to be a very good compromise between handling and everyday road comfort. Like the E46 M3, the Z4 M Coupe feels much stiffer on everyday streets than the 135i. That comfort compromise is what some people complain about, as the suspension feels noticeably softer when taking the car to the limits. But just because the 135i FEELS softer and less confidence inspiring, it does not necessarily mean the 135i can't turn as fast, as objective data shows.

I have no doubt the M Coupe FEELS more exciting and involving to drive than the 135i, simply because there is much less compromise for comfort. I also have no doubt that the NA 3.2L I6 screams much better for that "racing feel" compared to the twin turbo 3.0L I6.

Ever since getting the 135i, I've taken it the track 3 times this past summer with everything stock. I'm no pro and I'm don't race, but I do enjoy lapping on a track. Grip levels are high, and I'm mighty impressed despite the run flat tires. I've run with M coupes, and the two I encountered were both slower on a track. Of course, there are more E46 M3's out there......and the only ones that are consistently faster than me are those with R-compounds. I can attest that for the average driver who does lapping days for fun, the 135i is VERY capable. The lack of a mechanical LSD will unlikely affect corner exit speeds out of turns for most average drivers, as the e-diff does work. Of course, this may be different for pro drivers who race.

And I have to say this: unless you track your car, these impressions of superior this and that about handling for cars as closely matched as these 2 are POINTLESS. It is highly unlikely that either of these cars will be taken to their handling limits on everyday urban streets.

I concur with all you have to say. Datasheets don't drive my opinions (I don't go out of my way to even take notice of them...and Bimmer and Roundel are the only two American car magazines I read these days as the German ones are preferable). If one is faster than the other, or not, that's of no real relevance or significance to me. I'm not a hp junkie. Sometimes it's easy to get dragged in to all the hairsplitting. What's important to me is far less tangible. It's really the way something drives, by the excitement it induces in ownership, etc. That's all personal. One point though, I don't mind a more stiff sprung car. But I would say that neither is better than the other as you point out. The Z4 M does bounce off bumps a bit. The 135i is louder over the same and really can crash over bumps as well (I know this from some bumps near my house where I've driven both cars over--repeatedly as German roads are patched more so than ever replaced). Perhaps due to the runflats alone? Both cars could benefit from better suspension just to make the ride quality better without loosing cornering capability. My recommendation is KW V3s for everyday, or KW Clubsport for track use.

Cheers!

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

Balls, it's obvious you love your M Coupe and it is a great car. For a "fun" car and occasional track car, I also considered the M Coupe or M Roadster, along with the 135i. In the end, the value of the 135i won out for me, as a new M Coupe or M Roadster is significantly more expensive in Canada compared to a basic 135i coupe with no options other than the M sport package. And after doing some research in terms of performance (straight line acceleration, handling, laptimes, etc), I felt I didn't give up that much when choosing the 1er.

I'm not going to go into straight line acceleration, as I think the 2 cars are so close that it's really a driver's race. As I track my car, the more important thing for me is the handling aspect. There has never been a head to head comparison between the M coupe and 135i, but the data from various magazines is consistent......there is NO significant difference between the 2 when it comes to actual grip and handling, even with stock tires.

Road & Track (M Coupe/135i):
200ft skidpad: 0.88g/0.91g
700ft slalom: 70.5mph/70.6mph

Car & Driver (M Coupe/135i):
328ft skidpad: 0.89g/0.89g

Motortrend (M Coupe/135i):
lateral acceleration: 0.90g/0.94g
figure 8 course: 25.8s/25.2s

Sport Auto (M Coupe/135i):
Hockenheim laptime: 1.17,2 min/1.17,4 min

Consistently, the 135i has been shown to have very high limits when it comes to grip. The main problem is that BMW has tuned the suspension to be a very good compromise between handling and everyday road comfort. Like the E46 M3, the Z4 M Coupe feels much stiffer on everyday streets than the 135i. That comfort compromise is what some people complain about, as the suspension feels noticeably softer when taking the car to the limits. But just because the 135i FEELS softer and less confidence inspiring, it does not necessarily mean the 135i can't turn as fast, as objective data shows.

I have no doubt the M Coupe FEELS more exciting and involving to drive than the 135i, simply because there is much less compromise for comfort. I also have no doubt that the NA 3.2L I6 screams much better for that "racing feel" compared to the twin turbo 3.0L I6.

Ever since getting the 135i, I've taken it the track 3 times this past summer with everything stock. I'm no pro and I'm don't race, but I do enjoy lapping on a track. Grip levels are high, and I'm mighty impressed despite the run flat tires. I've run with M coupes, and the two I encountered were both slower on a track. Of course, there are more E46 M3's out there......and the only ones that are consistently faster than me are those with R-compounds. I can attest that for the average driver who does lapping days for fun, the 135i is VERY capable. The lack of a mechanical LSD will unlikely affect corner exit speeds out of turns for most average drivers, as the e-diff does work. Of course, this may be different for pro drivers who race.

And I have to say this: unless you track your car, these impressions of superior this and that about handling for cars as closely matched as these 2 are POINTLESS. It is highly unlikely that either of these cars will be taken to their handling limits on everyday urban streets.

after driving the 135 yesterday, i would say it is pretty damn close to as fast as my M, and handled great. if the M didn't exsist i would be in a 135 cab tomorrow. that is why i am pressing my wife to buy one.:thumbup:

[future135i]

"abusing" the car right before selling is REAL.... mature.

[MatthewDFW]

Originally Posted by AtoB

after driving the 135 yesterday, i would say it is pretty damn close to as fast as my M, and handled great...

AtoB's post (and a few others, as well) reminds us that the 135's balance of comfort and performance is a big advantage.

Most of us would agree that the 135 is faster and more fun to drive than many "civilized" road cars (sedans or coupes) costing much more. At the same time, the comfort it offers does nothing to negate its props as a legitimate performance coupe. It's safe to say the 135 retains enough "edge" to be taken seriously on a track (equal thanks: inline six, great brakes, superb balance). Certainly, the numbers put it within a hair's breadth of M3 performance - as it turns out, maybe too close for BMW's sake.

I guess my point is: Not every car can be comfortable everyday and wild fun on the weekends, too. Maybe it's a mistake to dismiss this as "compromise" or "trade-off" when it should be applauded as a feat of engineering.

That said, perhaps the real question isn't "What BMW do you want parked in the garage next to your other sports car?" but rather... "If you had room in your garage for only one car, isn't the 135 a pretty great choice?"

[future135i]

Originally Posted by MatthewDFW

"If you had room in your garage for only one car, isn't the 135 a pretty great choice?"

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by future135i

"abusing" the car right before selling is REAL.... mature.

1Addicts equals relentless digs I guess. But it seems every forum has their own subset of those who have to make an issue of anything or everything, be so judgemental (as above), take so much out of context, or just misinterpret the simpliest of words or intensions. When I first joined 1Addicts I found this forum refreshing from most of this type of behavior. How times have changed (case in point: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17410). Nonetheless I'm still a BMW fan first and foremost and still like the 135i for all that it is or isn't to me. For all those who love their 135is, congratulations on your choice and satisfaction. May you have many years of pride in ownership.

[MatthewDFW]

Originally Posted by Balls

1Addicts equals relentless digs I guess. But it seems every forum has their own subset of those who have to make an issue of anything or everything, be so judgemental (as above), take so much out of context, or just misinterpret the simpliest of words or intensions...

Balls, at the risk of intruding in an area which is none of my business, I would encourage you to re-think your assessment of the forum at large, and not withdraw from sharing your opinions. Whether others here agree or disagree with your posts - on topics large or small - the fact remains that we are better off with you than without you.

Corny or not... Spirited debate is a good thing for a forum like this, provided cool heads prevail and things are kept civil. Surely we can all agree on two things...

Each car owner should be entitled to a measure of pride in their ride. After all, if you didn't take pride in your car, what sort of "auto enthusiast" would you be? A shared passion for the open road should be our strongest common thread (no pun intended).

On the other hand, pride in one's own car should stop short of heavy-handed or mean-spirited criticism of the other guy's ride. For the most part, we aren't exactly driving beaters here. That said, we should always respect the car, even if we don't agree with the driver.

[adc]

The only things that are missing from the 135i to make it perfect are a harder suspension (and without understeer) and a mechanical limited slip.

The only thing missing from the Z4M to make it perfect is a twin turbo six, or the V8 from the new M3.

[MVF4Rrider]

Can't believe I didn't think of this before ... the two best reasons to own a Z4 M vs. the 135i is the black headliner and no sunroof!!! :-)

Somebody with some clout needs to inform BMW to make the black headliner and sunroof delete options for all cars in the US market (like it is everywhere else it seems). The 135i I test drove (German spec) way back in the beginning of the year came that way. Makes a huge difference over the light gray headliner mine had IMO. Plus the fact I never use the sunroof so for sure don't need it, don't want it, and don't want to pay for it. You can order a MINI in the US this way, so why not a BMW???

[adc]

Originally Posted by Balls

You can order a MINI in the US this way, so why not a BMW???

BMW should start offering roof decals just like MINI, that way we'll get the sunroof delete option.

[BForbes]

To answer the OP's question, NO. It is not reasonable to compare a 135i to a Z4M.

[HondaGoneRogue]

I saw a 120d coupe in Trier, AW with full performance package and BLACK headliner and no sun roof. Sat in it and it felt way more luxurious/mean. It also was selling for 49k euro. lol. And fyi to everyone, we CAN order the Anthracite headliner but it looks to be a LOT of work. Anyway, back on topic.

[future135i]

Balls, I appologize if you didn't like my comments. I admit it that my comments were not very constructive.

I agree that the sunroof should be an option as I would never order one either.

[esscolab]

Originally Posted by BForbes

To answer the OP's question, NO. It is not reasonable to compare a 135i to a Z4M.

If only this would have been the first response it would have saved everyone lots of bother and we would all have moved on...

[BMW Dreamer]

The Z4 M needs to be reved high to go, I prefer the torque of the 135i MUCH more. Plus I don't care for the Z4 M styling too much, its OK, but thats my opinion. My neighbor has 1.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by esscolab

If only this would have been the first response it would have saved everyone lots of bother and we would all have moved on...

Interesting observation ... spoken from the same guy who played a major role in the thread's downward spiral with the Z4 hairdresser comment. Only lessor individuals are so influenced by comedic labeling which is not based on any real or tangible demographic evidence. At the risk of making a hasty generalization of my own, the hairdresser comment does flow freely from the lips of many Brits as I've experienced from two UK-based forums I've belonged to (MINI and TT) and only serves to rub people wrong as most people don't appreciate being labeled with such bafoon generalizations.

[esscolab]

Unlike you balls I don't dwell on petty subjects and argue to the n'th degree to get my point across. I've moved on and if you had the remotest amount of common sense, so would you.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by esscolab

If only this would have been the first response it would have saved everyone lots of bother and we would all have moved on...

accidental re-post

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by esscolab

Unlike you balls I don't dwell on petty subjects and argue to the n'th degree to get my point across. I've moved on and if you had the remotest amount of common sense, so would you.

But you didn't move on (see post #124). That's the point...

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

The Z4 M needs to be reved high to go, I prefer the torque of the 135i MUCH more. Plus I don't care for the Z4 M styling too much, its OK, but thats my opinion. My neighbor has 1.

That's not true. It has lots-o-torque, not as much as the 135i of course, nor over as big a spread. To say a car that puts about 250 torque to the ground (262 at the crank) has to be revved high is for sure not based on any experience.

Now that statement could apply to many free revving Japanese motors that sacrifice low end grunt for high rpm power. BMW 6 cylinder engines are never low on usable torque, whether NA or turbos.

[esscolab]

Obviously my comments have stirred some inner demon within you or you wouldn't bother rising to the occasion every time. I stand by what I said about the Z4M, call it a generalization or not. I do actually see these stereotypes drive these cars. It's not driving the forum into chaos as most people take others comments with a pinch of salt and don't take things to heart, unlike some.......

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by esscolab

I do actually see these stereotypes drive these cars.

No doubt. But where I live (Germany) I don't even think there are any hairdressers (based on the styles I see, or lack thereof...)

Of course I like style and function, and would gladly have a stylish Italian piece of 4-wheeled moving art in my drive if I could afford it, which I can't.

For sure the Z4M is no God's gift to sports cars. Just the best I was willing to pay for.