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      12-24-2014, 02:11 PM   #1
BMW135pls
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Switching from RFTs to Summer Performance, how much difference will I feel?

When I got my 1er, it had relatively bald stock RFTs on it. I then proceeded to tune it with a JB4 and learned to be somewhat afraid of the car overall because when the back end gets loose, instead of being smooth and controllable, it can do so rather violently. I get the pleasure of driving RWD V8 pickup trucks in my line of work, and by comparison, even in heavy rain, you could mash the throttle and the slide will be easily controllable with appropriate countersteer. My experience with the 1er on stock RFTs is very different. When this summer season comes I am going to scrap the idea of RFTs and go pure summer performance tires, and I hope this will in itself fix the issue I was having.

I'm currently running a JB4 map 5 w/16lb of boost on 93RM2, AA DP + Exhaust, and I plan on doing a DCI and FMIC in the summer. My question is, after the tire install, should I retain what I've learned about how to drive the 1er and still be afraid of mashing the throttle because the 1er just has a naturally light back end, or is that just a trait of mostly bald stock RFTs?
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      12-24-2014, 02:30 PM   #2
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Think of your RFT's as your nicest dress shoes and imagine running a mile in them. Then imagine running another mile in Puma sneakers.
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      12-24-2014, 02:59 PM   #3
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The RFTs on the car are garbage. When you change them to a more appropriate tire, like a non-RFT performance tire, you will never want to go back. They make the car handle how it should and still be careful. Just because they give more grip doesn't mean you should forget that there are limits and don't exceed them.

What tire and sizes are you looking at?
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      12-24-2014, 03:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Panther View Post
Think of your RFT's as your nicest dress shoes and imagine running a mile in them. Then imagine running another mile in Puma sneakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilante375 View Post
The RFTs on the car are garbage. When you change them to a more appropriate tire, like a non-RFT performance tire, you will never want to go back. They make the car handle how it should and still be careful. Just because they give more grip doesn't mean you should forget that there are limits and don't exceed them.
Thanks, that does sound promising. I guess it'll make a pretty noticeable difference. Yeah I don't think I'll push any dangerous limits, I don't get any kicks taking a sharp turn at 100mph, I get more of a kick from launches, straight pulls, and low speed controlled slides. Man, I really can't wait to be able to put them on now.

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Originally Posted by Vigilante375 View Post
What tire and sizes are you looking at?
I was actually looking at these:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e&autoModClar=

Same wheel size as the stock rims, 215/245x18. Any thoughts?
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      12-24-2014, 03:28 PM   #5
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Those are good tires, a lot of people have them on their cars. You could go with the stock sizes or go up 1. 225 front and 255 rear, as many of us have done with no issues. A tad more grip in the front and tad better traction in the rear.

You can try for a square setup of 245s all around but I believe the fronts would need some adjusting to fit them.
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      12-24-2014, 03:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilante375 View Post
Those are good tires, a lot of people have them on their cars. You could go with the stock sizes or go up 1. 225 front and 255 rear, as many of us have done with no issues. A tad more grip in the front and tad better traction in the rear.

You can try for a square setup of 245s all around but I believe the fronts would need some adjusting to fit them.
I like the staggered setup, but I was curious about going up a size ever since I heard of it. No adjustments are needed to go to 225/255? I would like that change quite a lot, but I would not like having to pay 2k+ for new rims Does anyone use 19" wheels? Is that even possible? Probably wouldn't gain much anyway.
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      12-24-2014, 04:22 PM   #7
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Nothing needs to be changed. Just get the 225/255 tires and get them installed. Why go to 19" rims anyways? Unless you just want them for appearance then ok but they add no performance gains what so ever. They're just extra weight and rotating mass.
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      12-24-2014, 04:37 PM   #8
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Smile

On a nice summer day, a lot. Improved ride and handling. Somewhat diminished steering response. You still can break the rear end loose with throttle and steering, but it will be a lot harder.

Mash the throttle on a rainy 40F morning, you'll think you're back on the bald RFTs.
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      12-24-2014, 06:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135pls View Post
I like the staggered setup, but I was curious about going up a size ever since I heard of it. No adjustments are needed to go to 225/255? I would like that change quite a lot, but I would not like having to pay 2k+ for new rims Does anyone use 19" wheels? Is that even possible? Probably wouldn't gain much anyway.
225/255 fits just fine on the stock wheels and is pretty popular around the forums. Michelin Pilot Supersports are by far the best reviewed summer tires. If you're looking for all seasons, the Michelin A/S3s (what I have) are surprisingly good in a variety of conditions.

I just recently made the switch from the stock RFT and couldn't be happier. Less harsh with more grip!
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      12-24-2014, 07:02 PM   #10
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Curious as to how the rest of the suspension feels when removing the RFTs? Does it get a little soft (factory tuned to run with RFTs)?
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      12-24-2014, 07:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.fabulous View Post
Curious as to how the rest of the suspension feels when removing the RFTs? Does it get a little soft (factory tuned to run with RFTs)?
Can't comment on summers yet, but right now I have non-RFT snow tires on it with M-suspension tuning. Even though they are snow tires, the suspension feel has improved greatly. Little bumps in the road don't feel like a big issue, and I no longer get dizzy from driving like I did on RFTs, it was really annoying.
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      12-24-2014, 07:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhipp View Post
225/255 fits just fine on the stock wheels and is pretty popular around the forums. Michelin Pilot Supersports are by far the best reviewed summer tires. If you're looking for all seasons, the Michelin A/S3s (what I have) are surprisingly good in a variety of conditions.

I just recently made the switch from the stock RFT and couldn't be happier. Less harsh with more grip!
Interesting. What are the risks? I like that idea. I mean my OCD is telling me to not go with a mismatch set, but as for getting an improved contact patch without having to buy a new rim set, that I definitely like.
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      12-24-2014, 09:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.fabulous View Post
Curious as to how the rest of the suspension feels when removing the RFTs? Does it get a little soft (factory tuned to run with RFTs)?
Yes, it will feel more compliant. But don't confuse compliant with less grip. Think bicycle vs. big wheel. Unfortunately the first thing you will notice is the steering/turn-in will feel a little less responsive, especially if you go +1 on the tire width. This can be significantly improved with the M3 front sway bar and proper alignment (i.e. less toe-in). The next thing you will notice (now that you have grip) is how soft the rear subframe bushings feel. The back end will be less likely to break free with NonRFTs but it will feel like you have some sort of unpredictable four wheel steering. If you are serious about sorting out the suspension, replacing the RSFBs and RFTs is necessary just to get you to a clean slate to work with. Only once this is done can you begin to can address the car's handling/balance.
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      12-24-2014, 09:24 PM   #14
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Can anyone comment on how difficult it is to change the rear subframe bushings. Can you do it yourself, or does it require special pressing tools? Also, what bushings do you use for conventional tires? M3?
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      12-24-2014, 10:00 PM   #15
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Can anyone comment on how difficult it is to change the rear subframe bushings. Can you do it yourself, or does it require special pressing tools? Also, what bushings do you use for conventional tires? M3?
It's a PITA. It can be a DIY project, but wouldn't recommend it. If you're interested in trying, HP Autowerks rents the tool. I'm pretty sure there's a couple RSFB DIY thread with pictures. Just do a quick search and you'll find it.
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      12-25-2014, 02:36 PM   #16
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Two ways to go on rear subframe bushings.

Full bushing removal/installation is a moderately difficult task. Some (experienced?) have found it reasonably easy. Others, not.

You can get inserts that fit into the void spaces. Much easier install, no pressing old bushings out. A lot of opinions about their relative effectiveness, many found them pretty darn good, at least one person decided to remove them and go to a full bushing replacement. It depends on many things, including the age of your existing bushings. On a 2012, they should be excellent.

If you're not DIYing, the labor charge for inserts should be significantly less than half that for full bushings.
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      12-25-2014, 03:37 PM   #17
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^ Any estimate on a price for a RSFB install? Or an estimate of time anyway?

Quotes don't seem to be working right now.
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      12-25-2014, 06:56 PM   #18
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My .02,

Get rid of those RFT ASAP. It's a night an day difference, and probably the easiest thing you can do to improve the handling.

I went with the Michelin Pilot Super Sports, they are cheaper than the stock Bridgestone's on Tire Rack, so even better.

They are way more grippy than the OEM tire. The car doesn't bounce over bumps like it used to, it really feels more planted and gives a lot more confidence in the turns. It also makes the ride a bit less harsh as the softer rubber absorbs a bit more of the bumps and irregularities... As an added bonus, they are quieter too, I notice a lot less road noise at highway speeds.

So, yes, absolutely. Ditch the RFT and get some PSS.
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      12-25-2014, 07:01 PM   #19
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A
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135pls View Post
^ Any estimate on a price for a RSFB install? Or an estimate of time anyway?

Quotes don't seem to be working right now.
Around 6-8 hours (including bleeding the brakes), plus the cost of a alignment if they loosen the camber links to release the rear springs. It's not cheap, but completely necessary.
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      12-25-2014, 07:24 PM   #20
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Is alignment necessary if only inserts are done to reinforce the bushings?
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      12-26-2014, 01:17 PM   #21
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I don't think so. Unlike full replacement you only need to drop the subframe a small amount, so no need to mess with the links.
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      12-26-2014, 01:55 PM   #22
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The ride and traction with run flats is awful, especially with a tune. You'll love the transition to non-RFTs!

I went with 255s rear and probably won't do that again. I experienced rubbing on the rear when suspension was compressed for probably 5k miles. I seem to be in the minority as only a few others have reported this but it was pretty annoying.
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