H&R vs Performance vs M3 Suspension parts

sparoz · 06-29-2009, 06:42 AM

Now with my tyres sorted... it seems to me it might be more worth it for me to spend the money on suspension set up then a jar of crystal rock.

My intentions is to eventually replace the torsion rods, rear sub frame bushins, wishbones with the M3 parts.

The option is then on what sway bar to use. I understand the M3 sway bars are still tubular - but the H&R are solid. Anyone had any opinions on this? The performance looks like is a 26mm compare to the M3 26.5mm so there's probably there's not much difference. Especially, I would like to stay with the performance springs as it seems to be balanced and tune to the 135i with a minimal drop. Or is it better to just bite the bullet and go with KW coil overs?

WOPALX · 06-29-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparoz

Now with my tyres sorted... it seems to me it might be more worth it for me to spend the money on suspension set up then a jar of crystal rock.

My intentions is to eventually replace the torsion rods, rear sub frame bushins, wishbones with the M3 parts.

The option is then on what sway bar to use. I understand the M3 sway bars are still tubular - but the H&R are solid. Anyone had any opinions on this? The performance looks like is a 26mm compare to the M3 26.5mm so there's probably there's not much difference. Especially, I would like to stay with the performance springs as it seems to be balanced and tune to the 135i with a minimal drop. Or is it better to just bite the bullet and go with KW coil overs?

Spend your $ on LSD (limited slip diff), even if you remain tuneless it's the single best mod you can do to transform how the car handles.

Had I have know I'd have done the LSD first before coilovers & M3 parts (both of which are good mind you).

Breville · 06-29-2009, 07:21 PM

I'd do coil overs, they made a huge difference to ride quality and handling. If you've got the $$$ the LSD is an awesome thing to get.

janus77 · 06-29-2009, 07:46 PM

How much does it cost to get an LSD put in? Why didn't they make them with an LSD as standard?

'fatboy' · 06-29-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janus77

How much does it cost to get an LSD put in? Why didn't they make them with an LSD as standard?

We have an e-diff but LSD's seem to be reserved for M cars only... I could be wrong?

janus77 · 06-29-2009, 08:08 PM

i'm correct in my understanding that basically an LSD will ensure that power goes to the wheel with traction, so that you can get as much power to the ground as possible? Also while cornering it means the inside wheel can maintain power and traction even though it's travelling slower than the outside wheel? So you get better power out of corners?

sparoz · 06-30-2009, 12:02 AM

I will definitely look into a LSD if I am going to put it on track all the time. However, for on road driving, I think suspension parts would be adequate for now. Also, apparently on the manual cars, the diff is welded on unlike the auto. Way or Andrew might be able to shed more light to this.

spdrcr · 06-30-2009, 03:09 AM

Nothing puts a smile on my face like planting the throttle and feeling the smooth transition into oversteer that you get with a quaife. You can do the most impressive 90 degree 'power turns' and its like the car wants to straighten up and go straight at the end of it.

Compared to the 'e-diff' functionality it is chalk and cheese.

I have done quite a few mods and I agree with WOPALX, the quaife is the best.

andrew@southernBM · 06-30-2009, 05:23 AM

Quaife is the way to go and yes the 135i has a welded crownwheel. I am doing a quaife today for a 335i and will have 135i Quaife LSD's in stock once i have them done, the parts are here, just getting the quaife in it. I think BimAus135 will have one of them though. I have a few images on my website of the crownwheels.

BBK · 06-30-2009, 08:04 AM

But what is the real difference in day to day driving on the street, if any, having an LSD? Unless you are tracking the car maybe it's best to change the suspension parts?

WAY · 06-30-2009, 08:11 AM

BBK, there is no real difference driving on the street. But if you are spdrcr, you will probably drift out of every corner at the lights. I have seen him doing that to both mine and Prof's car. Obviously there isn't a hoon law in NSW lol.

WOPALX · 06-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew@southernBM

Quaife is the way to go and yes the 135i has a welded crownwheel. I am doing a quaife today for a 335i and will have 135i Quaife LSD's in stock once i have them done, the parts are here, just getting the quaife in it. I think BimAus135 will have one of them though. I have a few images on my website of the crownwheels.

Andrew it seams that all 335 AT's have bolted crowns, where the MT's have welded ones. Is that the same with the 135's?

spdrcr · 06-30-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAY

BBK, there is no real difference driving on the street. But if you are spdrcr, you will probably drift out of every corner at the lights. I have seen him doing that to both mine and Prof's car. Obviously there isn't a hoon law in NSW lol.

This is highly recommended for anyone that hasn't tried it, just don't practice when there is lots of traffic around!

andrew@southernBM · 07-01-2009, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOPALX

Andrew it seams that all 335 AT's have bolted crowns, where the MT's have welded ones. Is that the same with the 135's?

All 135i's are welded i believe, the 335 i did yesterday is bolted. The welded one i am doing will take a few weeks to do but i'll have it in stock for anyone ready to bolt in, no mucking around.

andrew@southernBM · 07-01-2009, 05:15 AM

On another note to get back on topic i installed a front H&R sway bar last week and interested to hear the feedback. I'll be doing a rear bar next week. (Not looking forward to the rear install though......)It will be interesting to hear the report back from the owner. I don't have sway bars on mine and haven't spent enough time behind the wheels with cars with sway bars to make comment but most seem to agree a larger front bar makes for more understeer.

Overall i like the ride and handling of the BMW Performance suspension. The looks stack up as well, it is a sharper ride but just nice. I did a write up a while ago on it and the owner of one of the cars reported as well on his feedback.

The M3 suspension arms are the goods but i'm still un decided whether the full kit is worth it on my car. I'm struggling to feel a difference but then again i just found one of my shockers has a massive issue. So Jury is still out for me on this.

The Quaife is sensational.

The KW's i have installed all customers have been happy with them. I say to customers looking to upgrade to let me know your intentions with the car, are you going to track the car regularly or road racer type. In most cases you won't need coil overs.

I have i have helped the original poster.

sparoz · 07-01-2009, 07:47 AM

Thanks andrew! I won't be tracking much, but looking at the costs of the performance suspension, I wonder if the KWs is going to be the better way to go.

The biggest problem I have is the body lean and the understeer which seems to be worst than the 318i!

So, the performance front sway is the same as the standard? In that case, it seems to just change it to the performance suspension with may be change to the M3 fsb to reduce body roll, and the front suspension parts to reduce understeer?

The next thing is to see who can do them up here!

Bim135AUS · 07-01-2009, 09:07 AM

I found that the front H&R sway bar that Andrew installed well and truly reduced body roll but with a small increase in understeer which I am hoping I can dial out by having Andrew fit the rear H&R sway bar next week.

All indications from the suspension part of this forum are that the uprated rear bar has a significant effect on reducing the dreaded understeer that BMW happily builds into its cars.

In my case, I am only doing occasional tracking and I don't wish to muck up my every-day ride quality which is why I am going with the sway bar replacement route rather than coilovers and the like.

When Andrew does the install next week, I'll be posting a review on the effects of the two bars together.

Also, Andrew is right. The Quaife LSD with the same 3.08 ratio that he is working on is pencilled in for me, assuming that he doesn't make me take a second mortgage to get it!!

sparoz · 07-01-2009, 09:53 AM

thanks guys

. I will wait till tomorrow to see how everything is with the non-runflats. I might get more front grip with better tyres, and all I have to fix up is the bodyroll.

andrew@southernBM · 07-01-2009, 05:09 PM

The Specs of the BMW performance front sway bar no-one can tell me what the difference is, they just say that it is different.

So we ordered one locally and had a look, it is the same diameter bar but it looks different in the design so maybe it works differently under load? No-one has tested this yet.

When i ordered the BMW performance suspension from USA last year, they sent the sway bars but they were identical numbers to our stock bars. As we have 135i sports as standard there upgraded sway bars are our stock bars.

I hope this helps

takahashi · 07-01-2009, 06:28 PM

So the stock bar is performance bar for us?

Hmmm no wonder I don't feel the roll that they talked about in the US youtube videos...

sparoz · 07-03-2009, 03:16 AM

So both the struts and springs are different to stock? Still deciding if the BMW performance is the right way to go. No adjustments and it's $2k just for parts.

andrew@southernBM · 07-04-2009, 06:23 AM

Taka, What i am saying is that when i bought in 2 BMW performance suspension kits from USA, the kit also came with front sway bars. When i opened them up they were the same part number as the ones in the Australian spec 135i car.

Recently i had the need to buy a BMW performance front sway bar from BMW Australia. The number on the bar is different and so is the design. No specs come out with the bar and are not available. BMW say they are different......

Sparoz, the Springs and shockers are different, just the rest of the upper and lower spring pads that come with the kit are the same as what we have now.

06-29-2009, 06:42 AM	#1
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	H&R vs Performance vs M3 Suspension parts Now with my tyres sorted... it seems to me it might be more worth it for me to spend the money on suspension set up then a jar of crystal rock. My intentions is to eventually replace the torsion rods, rear sub frame bushins, wishbones with the M3 parts. The option is then on what sway bar to use. I understand the M3 sway bars are still tubular - but the H&R are solid. Anyone had any opinions on this? The performance looks like is a 26mm compare to the M3 26.5mm so there's probably there's not much difference. Especially, I would like to stay with the performance springs as it seems to be balanced and tune to the 135i with a minimal drop. Or is it better to just bite the bullet and go with KW coil overs? __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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06-29-2009, 07:21 PM	#3
Breville Scum in the sun 30 Rep 938 Posts Drives: 135i Coupe TiAg Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Syndey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 135i Coupe [0.00]	I'd do coil overs, they made a huge difference to ride quality and handling. If you've got the $$$ the LSD is an awesome thing to get. __________________ One should love animals. They are so tasty.
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06-29-2009, 07:46 PM	#4
janus77 Lieutenant 36 Rep 526 Posts Drives: 125i coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney iTrader: (0)	How much does it cost to get an LSD put in? Why didn't they make them with an LSD as standard? __________________ 125i, stick shift, M pack w/ 18's, 225/255 Z1's, saphire black, BMW CF rear spoiler, black interior, Midnight tint, business nav, sunroof, Injen intake, H&R sways.
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06-29-2009, 08:08 PM	#6
janus77 Lieutenant 36 Rep 526 Posts Drives: 125i coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney iTrader: (0)	i'm correct in my understanding that basically an LSD will ensure that power goes to the wheel with traction, so that you can get as much power to the ground as possible? Also while cornering it means the inside wheel can maintain power and traction even though it's travelling slower than the outside wheel? So you get better power out of corners? __________________ 125i, stick shift, M pack w/ 18's, 225/255 Z1's, saphire black, BMW CF rear spoiler, black interior, Midnight tint, business nav, sunroof, Injen intake, H&R sways.
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06-30-2009, 12:02 AM	#7
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	I will definitely look into a LSD if I am going to put it on track all the time. However, for on road driving, I think suspension parts would be adequate for now. Also, apparently on the manual cars, the diff is welded on unlike the auto. Way or Andrew might be able to shed more light to this. __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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06-30-2009, 03:09 AM	#8
spdrcr First Lieutenant 13 Rep 356 Posts Drives: Lotus Elise Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0)	Nothing puts a smile on my face like planting the throttle and feeling the smooth transition into oversteer that you get with a quaife. You can do the most impressive 90 degree 'power turns' and its like the car wants to straighten up and go straight at the end of it. Compared to the 'e-diff' functionality it is chalk and cheese. I have done quite a few mods and I agree with WOPALX, the quaife is the best.
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06-30-2009, 05:23 AM	#9
andrew@southernBM 169 Rep 1,537 Posts Drives: M2 G87, M4 G82 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	Quaife is the way to go and yes the 135i has a welded crownwheel. I am doing a quaife today for a 335i and will have 135i Quaife LSD's in stock once i have them done, the parts are here, just getting the quaife in it. I think BimAus135 will have one of them though. I have a few images on my website of the crownwheels.
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06-30-2009, 08:04 AM	#10
BBK Banned 88 Rep 3,070 Posts Drives: A boring one... Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW 135i [5.76]	But what is the real difference in day to day driving on the street, if any, having an LSD? Unless you are tracking the car maybe it's best to change the suspension parts?
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06-30-2009, 08:11 AM	#11
WAY Brigadier General 458 Rep 4,822 Posts Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	BBK, there is no real difference driving on the street. But if you are spdrcr, you will probably drift out of every corner at the lights. I have seen him doing that to both mine and Prof's car. Obviously there isn't a hoon law in NSW lol.
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07-01-2009, 05:15 AM	#15
andrew@southernBM 169 Rep 1,537 Posts Drives: M2 G87, M4 G82 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	On another note to get back on topic i installed a front H&R sway bar last week and interested to hear the feedback. I'll be doing a rear bar next week. (Not looking forward to the rear install though......)It will be interesting to hear the report back from the owner. I don't have sway bars on mine and haven't spent enough time behind the wheels with cars with sway bars to make comment but most seem to agree a larger front bar makes for more understeer. Overall i like the ride and handling of the BMW Performance suspension. The looks stack up as well, it is a sharper ride but just nice. I did a write up a while ago on it and the owner of one of the cars reported as well on his feedback. The M3 suspension arms are the goods but i'm still un decided whether the full kit is worth it on my car. I'm struggling to feel a difference but then again i just found one of my shockers has a massive issue. So Jury is still out for me on this. The Quaife is sensational. The KW's i have installed all customers have been happy with them. I say to customers looking to upgrade to let me know your intentions with the car, are you going to track the car regularly or road racer type. In most cases you won't need coil overs. I have i have helped the original poster.
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07-01-2009, 07:47 AM	#16
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	Thanks andrew! I won't be tracking much, but looking at the costs of the performance suspension, I wonder if the KWs is going to be the better way to go. The biggest problem I have is the body lean and the understeer which seems to be worst than the 318i! So, the performance front sway is the same as the standard? In that case, it seems to just change it to the performance suspension with may be change to the M3 fsb to reduce body roll, and the front suspension parts to reduce understeer? The next thing is to see who can do them up here! __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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07-01-2009, 09:07 AM	#17
Bim135AUS Private First Class 8 Rep 129 Posts Drives: BMW 135I Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Melbourne iTrader: (0)	I found that the front H&R sway bar that Andrew installed well and truly reduced body roll but with a small increase in understeer which I am hoping I can dial out by having Andrew fit the rear H&R sway bar next week. All indications from the suspension part of this forum are that the uprated rear bar has a significant effect on reducing the dreaded understeer that BMW happily builds into its cars. In my case, I am only doing occasional tracking and I don't wish to muck up my every-day ride quality which is why I am going with the sway bar replacement route rather than coilovers and the like. When Andrew does the install next week, I'll be posting a review on the effects of the two bars together. Also, Andrew is right. The Quaife LSD with the same 3.08 ratio that he is working on is pencilled in for me, assuming that he doesn't make me take a second mortgage to get it!! __________________ BMW 135I manual AW, red Coral, Procede processor, CDV, SprintBooster, H&R Front & Rear Sway Bars, Yokohama AO50's, SouthernBM camber plates, BMW Performance Rotors, Dinan Cold Air Intake, Dinan Exhaust, Dinan Oil Cooler, HPF Intercooler, Koni Front Sport Yellows, M3 rear subframe bushes
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07-01-2009, 09:53 AM	#18
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	thanks guys . I will wait till tomorrow to see how everything is with the non-runflats. I might get more front grip with better tyres, and all I have to fix up is the bodyroll. __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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07-01-2009, 05:09 PM	#19
andrew@southernBM 169 Rep 1,537 Posts Drives: M2 G87, M4 G82 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	The Specs of the BMW performance front sway bar no-one can tell me what the difference is, they just say that it is different. So we ordered one locally and had a look, it is the same diameter bar but it looks different in the design so maybe it works differently under load? No-one has tested this yet. When i ordered the BMW performance suspension from USA last year, they sent the sway bars but they were identical numbers to our stock bars. As we have 135i sports as standard there upgraded sway bars are our stock bars. I hope this helps
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07-01-2009, 06:28 PM	#20
takahashi Retired trackie 36 Rep 1,527 Posts Drives: 1///M Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	So the stock bar is performance bar for us? Hmmm no wonder I don't feel the roll that they talked about in the US youtube videos... __________________ TAKA 一仔BLOGブログ: BMW 1 series M 2011! Delivered 18/11/11.
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07-03-2009, 03:16 AM	#21
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	So both the struts and springs are different to stock? Still deciding if the BMW performance is the right way to go. No adjustments and it's $2k just for parts. __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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07-04-2009, 06:23 AM	#22
andrew@southernBM 169 Rep 1,537 Posts Drives: M2 G87, M4 G82 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	Taka, What i am saying is that when i bought in 2 BMW performance suspension kits from USA, the kit also came with front sway bars. When i opened them up they were the same part number as the ones in the Australian spec 135i car. Recently i had the need to buy a BMW performance front sway bar from BMW Australia. The number on the bar is different and so is the design. No specs come out with the bar and are not available. BMW say they are different...... Sparoz, the Springs and shockers are different, just the rest of the upper and lower spring pads that come with the kit are the same as what we have now.
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