How does the lack of a LSD effect 1 series handling?

[SKooT1027]

Both car's I have ever owned came with a limited slip differential (LSD). I never really put all that much focus on it b/c I never had a car w/o one. I assumed it only really played a factor when truly pushing your car, and not in day to day driving. I asked some people on bf.c, and I got an astounding response in favor of a LSD. I'm in CT, so I see all weather. The biggest point people made was that in rain/ice/snow, no LSD will leave a car either stranded or with much less control than a car w an LSD (makes sense). Yet, when I look around, I see ton's of new BMWs, and I'm pretty sure all newer non-M BMWs do not have LSDs, yet they function year round on all seasons. I always run summer and winter setups. Would the 1 series not having a true LSD be a reason to not purchase this car?

fwiw - this year has been miserable with ice. It's all over the place and f'n impossible to see. My e36 M3 on blizzaks manages, but even it slides around if I don't see the ice coming

[AlienDNA]

I've driven an LSD-free Miata in Ontario winters for eight years with no issues, and I've had no problems with my 135, either. Both cars have performance winter tires on them. You should have no issues.

[esscolab]

If you have never had it, you don't miss it.

[SKooT1027]

Originally Posted by esscolab

If you have never had it, you don't miss it.

...But I've always had it...

[warmtoes]

If you are talking about performance from a normal driving perspective in all types of weather I don't think you will notice much.

If you're talking about performance from a track point of view, you will notice.

Having said that, I had to turn off DSC and DTC (E-Diff) in order to get up a pretty steep hill in the snow with snow tires.

[SKooT1027]

Originally Posted by warmtoes

If you are talking about performance from a normal driving perspective in all types of weather I don't think you will notice much.

If you're talking about performance from a track point of view, you will notice.

Having said that, I had to turn off DSC and DTC (E-Diff) in order to get up a pretty steep hill in the snow with snow tires.

Makes sense. I don't track my car or my bike, and as much as I'd like to say I will, I know I probably wont. I turn off traction on my M3 when I'm stuck in any decent amount of snow, but going up hills I normally leave it on.

It's amazing the amount of people ont he other board saying its almost impossible to drive w/o it, and here it sounds like it's not that big of a deal.

:iono:

[IS+1]

Any inside wheelspin you would get when turning on slippery roads (or wheelspin in general for that matter) due to the lack of LSD would be largely compensated for by the DSC/DTC. In severe winter conditions, if you have all your electronic nannies on, the lack of LSD will be the least of your concerns.

I agree though that for track use, esp. Solo II, it would be an issue.

[Guildenstern]

Originally Posted by SKooT1027

It's amazing the amount of people ont he other board saying its almost impossible to drive w/o it, and here it sounds like it's not that big of a deal.

That's just more $=Better talking. I have gone more than a few winters in open diff RWD cars with no traction or stability control in the snow belt of Ohio and I have been fine with a good set of winter tires. I only got stuck when I did stupid stuff, and a little patience got me out each time.

With the DSC and DTC in the 1er I have to work pretty hard to even get the snow tires loose.

[Noize]

You'll miss it in performance driving. Especially with all the torque this engine can make. I would love if this car had a limited slip.

[SKooT1027]

Originally Posted by Guildenstern

That's just more $=Better talking. I have gone more than a few winters in open diff RWD cars with no traction or stability control in the snow belt of Ohio and I have been fine with a good set of winter tires. I only got stuck when I did stupid stuff, and a little patience got me out each time.

With the DSC and DTC in the 1er I have to work pretty hard to even get the snow tires loose.

Thank you. This pretty much nailed my question head on with what I was hoping to hear. I assumed BMW must have gotten pretty decent with their eDiff if they've been using it for ~10 years on all non-M (and z?) cars.

[SKooT1027]

Originally Posted by Alpinweiß

You'll miss it in performance driving. Especially with all the torque this engine can make. I would love if this car had a limited slip.

To be honest, I push my car hard on occassion, but the large majority of the time I keep it well within limits. Even when pushing it, it's still well within limits. I guess I always worry about if it actually does break lose and gets wrecked, which I dont want, and dont think it's worth risking that. That said, I do have some fun

[warmtoes]

I'm assuming that you would only drive it hard on the roadways in dry weather and in dry weather with good summer tires you won't notice.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Alpinweiß

You'll miss it in performance driving. Especially with all the torque this engine can make. I would love if this car had a limited slip.

I agree. On sharp turn in the mountains it will spin the inside tire if leave the stability control on. It seems to be better with DCS completely off (E-Diff kicks in), but sometimes I like the thought of a little bit of safety net.

It's fine for most normal situations, but I'm seriously considering upgrading to a LSD in the future.

[SKooT1027]

Originally Posted by warmtoes

I'm assuming that you would only drive it hard on the roadways in dry weather and in dry weather with good summer tires you won't notice.

Yeah I drive very safely when its not ideal weather outside. When its beautiful out, and the cars set for summer, it gets used a little harder

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I agree. On sharp turn in the mountains it will spin the inside tire if leave the stability control on. It seems to be better with DCS completely off (E-Diff kicks in), but sometimes I like the thought of a little bit of safety net.

It's fine for most normal situations, but I'm seriously considering upgrading to a LSD in the future.

$4k+ for a LSD is nuts tho. I don't plan to buy this either, just lease. I got bored of cars too fast to buy. But to add another $4k+, the M3 and 911 looks better and better.

[IDBMW]

From my experience of 30 years driving in snow, the DSC/DTC will be more helpful than any LSD would be.
I did take the 135i out to an empty snow covered parking lot last week to give the family a refresher course in vehicle handling on the snow. With DSC disabled we could spin out really easy just trying to accelerate. With DSC on we could hold the pedal to the metal and maintain a straight line. And the 30 mph and turn the wheel hard test resulted in less that a 180 deg. slide with DSC on. I got a couple of 720 deg. spins with DSC off. That was with the stock RFT’s.

My Toyota Tacoma has DSC in 2WD mode and is disabled in 4WD. On snow/icy roads I use 2WD since the DSC can stop a slide way better than no DSC in 4WD.

[SKooT1027]

Originally Posted by IDBMW

From my experience of 30 years driving in snow, the DSC/DTC will be more helpful than any LSD would be.
I did take the 135i out to an empty snow covered parking lot last week to give the family a refresher course in vehicle handling on the snow. With DSC disabled we could spin out really easy just trying to accelerate. With DSC on we could hold the pedal to the metal and maintain a straight line. And the 30 mph and turn the wheel hard test resulted in less that a 180 deg. slide with DSC on. I got a couple of 720 deg. spins with DSC off. That was with the stock RFT’s.

My Toyota Tacoma has DSC in 2WD mode and is disabled in 4WD. On snow/icy roads I use 2WD since the DSC can stop a slide way better than no DSC in 4WD.

Thats sounds like a really smart thing to do with the family .. and really fun . Are the RFT's considered summer tires, or all seasons? I couldn't imagine using summer tires in snow. Ive tried it once or twice - terrifying.

I'm impressed by the DSC. I thought that the DTC was better in the snow, tho. Am I wrong? Or would that only be for gaining traction if stopped/stuck?

[warmtoes]

The RFT's are summer only. DSC is for stability. DTC is better when you have traction issues that would beneft from having some wheel spin.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by warmtoes

The RFT's are summer only.

OEM all season runflats are a zero cost option on the 135i and are standard on the non SP equipped 128i. Check out Tire Rack for appropriate winter runflats.

Tom

[warmtoes]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

OEM all season runflats are a zero cost option on the 135i and are standard on the non SP equipped 128i. Check out Tire Rack for appropriate winter runflats.

Tom

Hmm, have not seen that in Canada.

[warmtoes]

Originally Posted by Pirate

What? The lack of a LSD is without question the 135i's biggest flaw.

From what point of view? There are no non-M cars with LSD so is it a flaw on all those vehicles as well?

Although I would love to have LSD if the 1 came with it, I can't imagine that I would ever notice driving on a public street in a manner that wouldn't get my license revoked.

Plus, people are already balking at the price of the 1's. A real LSD would add significant dollars.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by warmtoes

From what point of view? There are no non-M cars with LSD so is it a flaw on all those vehicles as well?

Although I would love to have LSD if the 1 came with it, I can't imagine that I would ever notice driving on a public street in a manner that wouldn't get my license revoked.

Plus, people are already balking at the price of the 1's. A real LSD would add significant dollars.

I agree that it's the biggest flaw (other than the HPFP failures, but that's different).

A real LSD shouldn't add more than $1k on a car like this, and I'd certainly have paid that much for one.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Pirate

And a 135i with a factory LSD would be a bigger threat to the M cars...

A 135i with a JB3 on it's already a pretty serious threat. :biggrin: