Prevention is better than cure?

[1MOz]

So my car has just passed the 10000kms mark and while wandering in Supercheap Auto, I spotted this product from Nulon and going to give it a go every 10000kms. I also have the BMS oil catch can installed.

Is this definitely good prevention of the carbon build up? I really don't want to open up the engine for cleaning up down the track.

This stuff costs $24 a bottle, a small price if it helps preventing long term issue imo.

What do you think? Yay or Nay?

[yawn]

Hmm... Could be the dreaded snake oil lol... Who knows?

[drjekl]

That product will be good for keeping your fuel system clean, but tbh i think you're wasting $ somewhat in such a new car and our engines are DI this won't unfortunately prevent carbon buildup.

Conventional engine:



N54:



Notice how fuel is directly injected into the combustion chamber (hence the term) whereas a conventional setup will inject fuel prior to the valves so in a conventional engine the fuel cleanses some of the buildup off the intake valves.

So that's why our cars have issues with buildup, as the fuel doesn't contact the intake valves so all those nice additives/detergents that shell promote that their v power achieves does diddly squat for carbon buildup on the intake valves in a direct injection engine.



Having said that $25 per year is a small price to pay for a piece of mind to keep the fuel pump and injectors 'clean' but i believe the premium fuels shall already have enough detergents to do this anyway...

[froop]

@ "Not to be used as a food container"

I actually have a bottle of something very similar to this but in a gold can. Won it from the previous dyno day at Advan hehe. I haven't used it yet but I have been noticing that my idle has been a little rough lately. Maybe I'll give it a go and see whether it does anything.

[1MOz]

Thanks guys for your opinions.

I do agree with you all. Thanks for the detailed explanation drjekl. As long as it doesn't do harm, $25 a year is not a bad thing to ensure the fuel system are clean albeit it's not cleaning the "dry" side of the valves.

I have emailed Nulon directly about it and will be interested to see what they say about this product and any benefit gain for direct injection engines.

[TS135i]

Liqui Moly has a few similar products.
http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/products/fuel-additives/

[flinchy]

besides the fact that generally fuel running over a valve will melt carbon anyway (well, give it a few revs for a few minutes :P)

[1MOz]

This is what Audi service used for my RS4 as maintenance and minimising carbon build up. RS4 engine is also a direct injection engine.

[drjekl]

Originally Posted by froop

@ "Not to be used as a food container".

That portion of their disclaimer was most likely added for the usdm!

The ASTM D5500 standard was based on a 1985 bmw 318i...

The ASTMD5598 direct injection standard they also refer to is based on a vehicle test procedure to evaluate the tendency of an unleaded spark-ignition engine fuel to foul electronic port fuel injectors (PFI) i.e the injector itself not the intake valves.

[drjekl]

Originally Posted by 1MOz

This is what Audi service used for my RS4 as maintenance and minimising carbon build up. RS4 engine is also a direct injection engine.

I will bet my left nut that's a rebranded liqui moly product, once again it will keep the fuel delivery system clean not the intake valves

[1MOz]

Originally Posted by drjekl

I will bet my left nut that's a rebranded liqui moly product, once again it will keep the fuel delivery system clean not the intake valves

I know. It's just palliative care, kinda feel good placebo effect.

[drjekl]

Originally Posted by 1MOz

I know. It's just palliative care, kinda feel good placebo effect.

Well yeah its not going to do any harm, most european mechanics encourage this especially the tdi vehicles as the side of effect of the low sulphur diesel we have these days causes other issues such as clogging of injectors etc

At the end of the day intake valve cleaning by removal of the intake manifold seems to be common maintenance for most vw audi bmw owners now a days unfortunately

[1MOz]

Look like there is specific fuel additives for direct injection petrol engines from Afton chemical:
http://www.aftonchemical.com/Product...C-6590_PDS.pdf

Bad news is I can't find anywhere that sells it.

[Blauweisser]

I fill up with 98 RON fuel not so much for the claimed extra power or smoothness (which is probably at best minor , when compared to 95 RON) but for the additives included for fuel system cleaning. That said, the N52 motor is port injected, and carbon build up is minimized as other people here have also noted) by the fact that the inflowing fuel dissolves much of the build up before it is heavily carbonized.

I think if you were running a car on 91 RON, these additive products like Nulon might be warranted.

To minimize build up in direct injected motors, I have to agree with what others have commented - regular long highway runs at speed limit is probably the best you can do.

[skidz]

think about this, if there is NO fuel going anywhere near the intake valves how can any of these products work to clean carbon off the valves???

If You want to clean ya valves, get METH

[1MOz]

I have received this reply from Nulon:

" Thank you for your enquiry and support of Nulon Products.

In a direct injection engine our TOTAL FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER (TFSC) will effectively clean the fuel system and combustion chamber but because the fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber and not past the inlet valves, it wont have the same effect in cleaning the inlet valves. Also due to this we don’t believe that there would be as much carbon build up on the inlet valves in a direct injection engine as fuel is not sprayed directly onto the inlet valves, however there may be other factors that cause the carbon build up.

A more suitable product to clean the intake system of a direct injection vehicle is our FOAMING AIR INTAKE CLEANER (AIC), see recommendation below.
AIC - Foaming Air Intake Cleaner

Nulon Foaming Air Intake Cleaner is specially formulated to clean the air intake system and combustion chamber without the need to dismantle the engine.

We hope we have answered your question and if you have further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us."

I think this will work well if the car is new and hasn't yet got too much build up. Regular application of this stuff and some hard driving should keep the inlet valves in good shape.

[RadiuM]

this is the shit. Subaru's Upper Cylinder/Engine Cleaner.

http://www.subaru.com.au/parts/catal...on-maintenance

[PeteA]

How would you apply such a foaming product to an N55? You would need to access a vacuume line but the N55 has an electric DV

[BMJ]

well I'm a sucker for these things... so when i read this thread i thought, 'this is right up my ally.' I went down to autobarn bought a bottle on special 30%off : ) ($16) came back to work went and filled up and pored it in.

Will come back to you all soon with a post about how great and sick my car now feels ; )

[froop]

Originally Posted by BMJ

well I'm a sucker for these things... so when i read this thread i thought, 'this is right up my ally.' I went down to autobarn bought a bottle on special 30%off : ) ($16) came back to work went and filled up and pored it in.

Will come back to you all soon with a post about how great and sick my car now feels ; )

+69 hp fo sho!

[1MOz]

Originally Posted by BMJ

well I'm a sucker for these things... so when i read this thread i thought, 'this is right up my ally.' I went down to autobarn bought a bottle on special 30%off : ) ($16) came back to work went and filled up and pored it in.

Will come back to you all soon with a post about how great and sick my car now feels ; )

Blah, I better go and stock some up with that much discount.

[BMJ]

Originally Posted by 1MOz

Blah, I better go and stock some up with that much discount.

do it mate,

guy at autobarn tried to convince me that there's no spray in the world that can clean my intake valves. (i was asking if they had it in the same brand) every time he said it, i replied 'so do you have it?' after third time he kinda gave up and walked away.

also picked up a micro fiber polish cloth for $13 (keeping interior dust free)

it's a good deal at the moment, was close but stopped myself picking up octane boosters... I used to be addicted to that stuff