What's it worth - Decisions Decisions

[Tommm]

My kid gets her permit in a few months. She has her eye on my 128i (really on the M in my sig, but she got from me when she asked about it).

The requirements I set out are two doors and three pedals. I am pricing different options and because the cars around here in the $5,000-$7,000 range are mostly turds, she who must be obeyed suggested I pass down my 128 and buy something like a FRS/BRZ, 370Z, 996 or Cayman (her suggestions) with two doors and three pedals for myself. Maybe sell the M and go for a 997.2-S coupe like my kid brother has.

So, what do the experts on the forum think I would be able to get for my One next winter. It has 52k now, figure it would have 70-75K. Assume no body damage besides a few chips in hood, and three dings on what will be an 11 year old car. It is an 08 that came from the factory with two options - heated seats and silver paint.

I installed a leather sport seat, and Koni sports with 135 springs.

So about a year from now, what would I get for my 70k mile six speed 128i with Koni sports?

[jaye944]

KBB

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by jaye944

KBB

Yes, KBB, Edmunds, NADA. Why didnt i think of those wonderful resources if you are valuing something like an Accord, Taurus or a Camry. As someone with 944 in his name I thought you knew how utterly useless they have been for 20 years, and still are if you are valuing a 944 (I owned 3 S2s, NA, 951, 951S and now an ugly S), M Roadster, and other cars I own and owned. If I used KBB five years ago to value my M I would still be shopping.

I apologize if I thought the process to value an E82 was more like that of an E36 or 944 than an Accord. I will take the value of an 08 and 09, then subtract the difference and i will have the value of an 08 in a year.

But there is a problem, hence why I am asking the forum. When I bought the car in June of 16 with 32,400 miles I brought the three values with me and the range swung about 20% before the mileage adjustment. One of the resources had a mileage adjustment of a few hundred dollars, while the other had an adjustment of a few thousand. All three knocked the value down because it was not an automatic. Have I been foolishly paying a premium for the manual transmission on my cars all these years? When the truck sidswiped and did $4,500 damage my E39 540i 6M his insurance "totaled" it using book. I got double the book when it was done and the car still has a clean title. The value was in the manual transmission.

Back in '03 when i bought a 93 Z28 6M with 31,000 miles, the books added $700 to the value for a 100,000 mileage adjustment, and knocked the value because it was a manual. Do you want to negotiate with that as your basis from the so called expert?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Tommm

Yes, KBB, Edmunds, NADA. Why didnt i think of those wonderful resources if you are valuing something like an Accord, Taurus or a Camry. As someone with 944 in his name I thought you knew how utterly useless they have been for 20 years, and still are if you are valuing a 944 (I owned 3 S2s, NA, 951, 951S and now an ugly S), M Roadster, and other cars I own and owned. If I used KBB five years ago to value my M I would still be shopping.

I apologize if I thought the process to value an E82 was more like that of an E36 or 944 than an Accord. I will take the value of an 08 and 09, then subtract the difference and i will have the value of an 08 in a year.

But there is a problem, hence why I am asking the forum. When I bought the car in June of 16 with 32,400 miles I brought the three values with me and the range swung about 20% before the mileage adjustment. One of the resources had a mileage adjustment of a few hundred dollars, while the other had an adjustment of a few thousand. All three knocked the value down because it was not an automatic. Have I been foolishly paying a premium for the manual transmission on my cars all these years? When the truck sidswiped and did $4,500 damage my E39 540i 6M his insurance "totaled" it using book. I got double the book when it was done and the car still has a clean title. The value was in the manual transmission.

Back in '03 when i bought a 93 Z28 6M with 31,000 miles, the books added $700 to the value for a 100,000 mileage adjustment, and knocked the value because it was a manual. Do you want to negotiate with that as your basis from the so called expert?

I feel your pain, as a former Z3 Coupe and a present Z3M Coupe owner.

The question is whether any 1-Series vehicle other than a 1M is currently, or will soon be, treated as anything other than a "used car." I don't have an answer for that.

Up to this point in time, the value of these cars used has followed the typical BMW commodity car path of rapid depreciation. We forum members here know that these 1-Series cars, especially the 6MT versions, are the last of a dying breed when it comes to BMWs, small-sedan-like, Responsive, fun to drive, MT, and hydraulic steering. The question is, are there enough enthusiasts out there who share our passion to pay up for a used one with acceptably low miles and in good condition?

Like all modern BMWs, these things are expensive to fix. So, out of warranty your potential ideal buyer is a car enthusiast who values the sort of car that we own, who is well enough capitalized to pay up for it, and who has the resources to pay for required maintenance and repairs. Up until now, the only segment of this 1-er market fitting those descriptions is the small sliver of buyers seeking out a 1M. Will this change, especially in the light of the rolling sofas that BMW now manufactures? Are there buyers seeking your particular car within a reasonable distance who will pay up for it now or in a year's time?

No one can answer these questions for you, sorry, but for now the best estimates out there are the used car pricing engines until other evidence presents itself to the contrary.

[Matticus91]

It's going to be sub $9k for the 128 if I had to guess. Fact is that the market for these cars is small and the depreciation is terrible. I regularly see them (08-10 128's and 135's) listed and selling between $7-10k in great shape with around 50k miles. Options don't matter, and modifications matter even less.

Personally I'd probably go for the 997.2-S coupe (in white, specifically) and keep the 128 for the kid.

Considering you already have the M roadster and the 128, you should immediately knock out the BRZ/FRS and 370z from your options. Sorry to anyone who has/has had those cars, but you'll be left wanting more from them, this is my opinion at least after having driven many variations of each. A 996 would be nice as well.

Around the $9k range you'll have a hard time finding anything else that compares to your 128 for the little one, and I think it's a great starter platform to get your kid into (or more into) cars.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by Matticus91

It's going to be sub $9k for the 128 if I had to guess. Fact is that the market for these cars is small and the depreciation is terrible. I regularly see them (08-10 128's and 135's) listed and selling between $7-10k in great shape with around 50k miles. Options don't matter, and modifications matter even less.

Personally I'd probably go for the 997.2-S coupe (in white, specifically) and keep the 128 for the kid.

Considering you already have the M roadster and the 128, you should immediately knock out the BRZ/FRS and 370z from your options. Sorry to anyone who has/has had those cars, but you'll be left wanting more from them, this is my opinion at least after having driven many variations of each. A 996 would be nice as well.

Around the $9k range you'll have a hard time finding anything else that compares to your 128 for the little one, and I think it's a great starter platform to get your kid into (or more into) cars.

That's what I'm figuring. My brother has a 997.2 Carerra S (not 4S) in midnight blue with a tan interior. he and I didnt realize how rare it was until after he bought it. It is his DD regularly going into Brooklyn and Manhattan.

If mine is worth less than 9, and I am figuring 7, I may look for one with more miles, a tired suspension and tired drivers seat for her. The prices asked for tired TTs and tired 180K mile E46s are putting me off.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Matticus91

Considering you already have the M roadster and the 128, you should immediately knock out the BRZ/FRS and 370z from your options. Sorry to anyone who has/has had those cars, but you'll be left wanting more from them, this is my opinion at least after having driven many variations of each. A 996 would be nice as well.

I owned a BRZ for a year; other than the reasonably decent MT, there was nothing that I liked about the car, which is seriously underpowered, unless you are one of those who think the Miata has enough power. The interior looked even cheaper than base Chevy Aveos with crank windows I have rented from Enterprise, and the "stereo" is worse.

[Matticus91]

Originally Posted by Tommm

That's what I'm figuring. My brother has a 997.2 Carerra S (not 4S) in midnight blue with a tan interior. he and I didnt realize how rare it was until after he bought it. It is his DD regularly going into Brooklyn and Manhattan.

If mine is worth less than 9, and I am figuring 7, I may look for one with more miles, a tired suspension and tired drivers seat for her. The prices asked for tired TTs and tired 180K mile E46s are putting me off.

They're great cars for sure, you'll come across a few issues through ownership I'm sure but overall they're great.

If you can find an older 128 to trade "down" to for your daughter that might put your mind at ease since it's her first car and bound to see some wear.

Originally Posted by champignon

I owned a BRZ for a year; other than the reasonably decent MT, there was nothing that I liked about the car, which is seriously underpowered, unless you are one of those who think the Miata has enough power. The interior looked even cheaper than base Chevy Aveos with crank windows I have rented from Enterprise, and the "stereo" is worse.

When they first came out I was pretty excited to go try one. I've driven spec miata's and can certainly have some fun in them, so I wasn't expecting much for power but just overall feel and value. Then I saw the sticker price was up there with the WRX's and the power band made me feel like I was falling on my face with slowness. A guy at a track let me try his supercharged BRZ which was much better, but heavily modified.

[04Enthusiast]

This week at the Mercedes-Benz dealer I was looking at a 2014 BMW M235i and was offered $7000 trade-in value on my 2011 BMW 128i 6MT. Carmax would buy it for $8000 today. I was surprised a dealer would even want it since I have two open safety recalls: airbag, and the new one on engine fire.

Your daughter is pretty smart. I think keeping the car in the family is a win-win for both of you.

I’m driving a pretty nice $7000 car! I might be forced to keep my car forever since it will always be worth more to me than anyone else.

[jaye944]

So your not talking about a car which is nearly 20 years old are we ?

You can "clearly" see I have a 128i and KBB was pretty much bang on with the price for mine.

As I can "clearly" see that you have a 128i too, I'm kinda guessing the same rule applies to you.

When you say what's my car worth, this is dependent on a LOT of factors.
None of which you asked for

* BOOK VALUE
* INSURANCE VALUE

What's it worth depends on what someone is WILLING to pay for it, I'll give you a jam sandwich for it, or maybe I'll give you 45 grand for it.
A CAR is worth different things to different people.

Take a car... Any car, lets say it is a POS worth 600 bucks, add a turbo, wide wheels, ejector seat, cannons, go faster stripes, what ever, the car is still a POS worth 600 bucks. PROBABLY less, with the mods.

I "wouldn't buy" any car with ANY mods, so your car "to me" is worthless.
Someone else may view your car with more worth than me. But to them your car is worth differently.

BOOK PRICE is a guide as to what is on the market, also coupled with what insurance is likely to think your car is worth in a total loss.

Hope that helps

Originally Posted by Tommm

Yes, KBB, Edmunds, NADA. Why didnt i think of those wonderful resources if you are valuing something like an Accord, Taurus or a Camry. As someone with 944 in his name I thought you knew how utterly useless they have been for 20 years, and still are if you are valuing a 944 (I owned 3 S2s, NA, 951, 951S and now an ugly S), M Roadster, and other cars I own and owned. If I used KBB five years ago to value my M I would still be shopping.

I apologize if I thought the process to value an E82 was more like that of an E36 or 944 than an Accord. I will take the value of an 08 and 09, then subtract the difference and i will have the value of an 08 in a year.

But there is a problem, hence why I am asking the forum. When I bought the car in June of 16 with 32,400 miles I brought the three values with me and the range swung about 20% before the mileage adjustment. One of the resources had a mileage adjustment of a few hundred dollars, while the other had an adjustment of a few thousand. All three knocked the value down because it was not an automatic. Have I been foolishly paying a premium for the manual transmission on my cars all these years? When the truck sidswiped and did $4,500 damage my E39 540i 6M his insurance "totaled" it using book. I got double the book when it was done and the car still has a clean title. The value was in the manual transmission.

Back in '03 when i bought a 93 Z28 6M with 31,000 miles, the books added $700 to the value for a 100,000 mileage adjustment, and knocked the value because it was a manual. Do you want to negotiate with that as your basis from the so called expert?

[jaye944]

Another point a trade in price will depend on what car you are trading it in for.

Generally dealers DONT give you money back. so if you trade your $7k car in for a $500 car expect nothing or a laugh.

Trade your $7k car in for a $45k car maybe get 8, maybe

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by 04Enthusiast

This week at the Mercedes-Benz dealer I was looking at a 2014 BMW M235i and was offered $7000 trade-in value on my 2011 BMW 128i 6MT. Carmax would buy it for $8000 today. I was surprised a dealer would even want it since I have two open safety recalls: airbag, and the new one on engine fire.

Your daughter is pretty smart. I think keeping the car in the family is a win-win for both of you.

I’m driving a pretty nice $7000 car! I might be forced to keep my car forever since it will always be worth more to me than anyone else.

This sums it up. I overpaid for my 128i last year! If your car which is three years newer than mine, and will be equivalent of four next year is worth 8k wholesale toady, say 10k private party (would you have been happy to sell it for 10 privatley if you struck a deal on the M235i?), then I should be able to find a clean (not immaculate) 128 or 328 coupe with about 100k miles for her in the 7k range. I should find a 125k mile clean E46 coupe for around 5K with minimal needs. Confirms my thought that the asking prices Im seeing for early TTs, and other early 2000s coupes is high.

Jaye, My first 944S2 was just an ten year old used car (the unwanted red head stepchild/bastard child of Porsche) when i bought it with 52k miles in '00.

[Tommm]

I decided to keep the one for myself and I bought my spoiled child a one onwer 2000 323Ci manual with 87,000 miles. We picked it up last weekend and drove it 975 miles home without a hiccup. I forgot how nice an E46 is. The non sport seats are more comfortable than I remember my sport seats to be.