N55 Are we there yet?

[BBK]

So point is... there isn't much between them!

And on that note, the X5/6M deserve the right to be called 'real' M cars :-)

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by BBK

And on that note, the X5/6M deserve the right to be called 'real' M cars :-)

I was wondering if anyone was going to admit that fact

Those chaps over at M HO really know what they are doing to get either of those tanks to hold their own with their smaller and lighter brothers and sisters

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Yeah but race suspension, race rubber, etc? I'd say an E30 M3 would be absolutely flying to pull that time.

It's from EVO 131 and it's a 2.3 - 215hp Roberto Ravagalia M3, full tank, road rubber. According the the article it's only 1/2second quicker than a RenaultSport Megane DCI 175. So it's not that fast. The Fiat Abarth 500 Esseee does 1.34.0 and a Ford Focus ST does 1.33.6.

B

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by pcockley

I was wondering if anyone was going to admit that fact

Those chaps over at M HO really know what they are doing to get either of those tanks to hold their own with their smaller and lighter brothers and sisters

I think the point is are they fun to drive? Bugatti make the quickest and fastest thing on earth but you never see it picked out as a great drivers car. I certainly wouldn't consider X5M and X6M as real M cars. I'd never buy one. I'd have a proper SUV and a proper sports car instead. Mind you they'd be fun at the lights :-).

B

[BBK]

I agree that they may not be that 'fun' to drive, but most 4WD cars aren't as fun as a RWD version.

Let's face it, M division may have once stood for motorsport, but now it stands for Marketing, or Money. Their job is to take a standard BMW series car and make it faster. Just like AMG does. And if BMW is to be competitive or profitable, they have to offer similar types of cars to their competitors.

If I had money to burn, and wanted an SUV, I sure would be buying the M version over a 'plain' version.

[JB4-335]

I bought a Ford Territory Turbo for the Mrs back in 2007 and I just can't bring myself to get rid of it. I've flashed the ECU and a few other little things and this car screams and handles quite well also. She's a bit of a lead foot and always wanting to have a quirt on the road when i'm in the 135. This thing quite comfortably keeps up with those CV8 Monaro's from a roll.

[dh58]

am just saying... footage from 18seconds onwards is good

[BBK]

Holy crap that took off quickly...

ianf2002: It's clear no matter how good they are you don't think highly off them. But seriously, if it can beat an M3 that's only 7-8 years old ON A TRACK, then it's good enough for me.

[dh58]

Originally Posted by BBK

Holy crap that took off quickly...

ianf2002: It's clear no matter how good they are you don't think highly off them. But seriously, if it can beat an M3 that's only 7-8 years old ON A TRACK, then it's good enough for me.

yeah take a look at this...

I don't know if the lambo driver sucks but.. check the times :/

[BBK]

I understand that, but M division doesn't really have much to do with motorsport. Not in the last 5 years anyway. At least they race the M3 (DTM?), the M5 definitely doesn't, nor the M6, nor the 1M. So really, by your rationale, the M3 is the only 'real' M?

[BBK]

Fair enough Ian, I think my point is that 'history' is just that, the past. M Division is not what it used to be...

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by choppedliver

It's from EVO 131 and it's a 2.3 - 215hp Roberto Ravagalia M3, full tank, road rubber. According the the article it's only 1/2second quicker than a RenaultSport Megane DCI 175. So it's not that fast. The Fiat Abarth 500 Esseee does 1.34.0 and a Ford Focus ST does 1.33.6.

B

Yes but this is a nearly 80s engineered car that is still in the conversation. That's legendary.

If you've ever driven an E30 M3 you'll know what I mean. They are gutless. It's all in the chassis.

[sparoz]

X5M is very quick. The engine power is given, but what it excels in is handling. If you have driven it, you would know what I mean. It shouldn't do what it does given the weight it carries. It is amazing when you felt the suspension and torque vectoring at work when you turn. From most comparisons I have seen, it is about 2-3 seconds slower on a race track. It will beat a 135i on a race track.

[pcockley]

All this, what is an M discussion reminds me of the chatter in the porsche ranks when they released the Cayenne. Now it seems as they have accepted the reality that not everyone wants to drive a shoebox

[m 135]

Originally Posted by pcockley

All this, what is an M discussion reminds me of the chatter in the porsche ranks when they released the Cayenne. Now it seems as they have accepted the reality that not everyone wants to drive a shoebox

or a hairdressers car hey come on.....keep it nice.....

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by m 135

or a hairdressers car hey come on.....keep it nice.....

what about the Z3, hehehehehe.

[Honny]

Originally Posted by sparoz

X5M is very quick. The engine power is given, but what it excels in is handling. If you have driven it, you would know what I mean. It shouldn't do what it does given the weight it carries. It is amazing when you felt the suspension and torque vectoring at work when you turn. From most comparisons I have seen, it is about 2-3 seconds slower on a race track. It will beat a 135i on a race track.

Im also confident it can smash a 135i on the track too and for what its worth the engineering within the XM's are nothing but extraordinary. But its like making a pair of brogues for the gym, its still utterly stupid.

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Yes but this is a nearly 80s engineered car that is still in the conversation. That's legendary.

If you've ever driven an E30 M3 you'll know what I mean. They are gutless. It's all in the chassis.

No argument from here. Just imagine one with a touch more power. I have real respect for these older cars. I even have a very old car in the garage that may move under it's own power, if I find time (not a BM).

B