[rishid]

Hi,

I have been trying to decide between a 325xi and an IS-250 (AWD) for 3-4 months. I have driven both cars and enjoy them both, they are much better than my current car (98 Mitsu Eclipse). The one thing I am worried about with the E90 is the long term costs in terms of repair on the electronics.

I want to keep this car between 8 to 10 years so I am looking at least 100K mileage on the car. I don't want to have to deal with expensive BMW electronics failing or a lot of unnecessary car maintenance. I understand no one can really know how well the electronics will be in eight years from now, but I could use some opinions.

Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks, appreciate it.

[zamboni]

Every cars has it problems and I had my E46 for 5 yrs and the only thing went out on me was the fuel pump and two windows regulators, total cost is around 1K for the repair. When it comes to quality most people pick Japenese cars over German made, I just trade in my Honda Accord and it got problems just like any other cars and BMW had improved the quality on their vehicles for the past few years. There for if you go with E90 you won't need to shell out maint cost for next 4 yrs but Lexus you do, don't fall for no maint for next 100K to me it's a bunch of BS they do cost ever time you bring it in for service. That is my 2 cents.

[nhhiep]

I don't own my 325i long enough to tell you about BMW, but I do owned Toyotas in the past. What I can say is that if you want to keep your car for long term, go with Toyota quality. If you want a fun car to drive, go with BMW. sorry, did I say Toyota? I mean Lexus

[xeta]

I had my 1995 325is for about 11 years before I traded her in for a 2006. Engine was fine, and purred really nicely (with only routine maintenance). The reason I got a new one was because the interior started to fall apart and wasn't worth the cost.

Items that went wrong in the 10th year:

-Door panel on each side started to remove from the door
-Seat Belt shoulder covers fell off
-Lightbulbs for computer display burnt out
- Lightbulbs for clock burnt out
- Moonroof started to show signs of mechanical failure (although never failed)
- Seat adjustment levers broke off.

While I could have resolved most of those items, if I spent the time on them the issue was I have no time and BMW service costs an arm and a leg to repair those small issues and I wouldn't pay for it.

For 10 years of constant driving and fiddling, I'de say she hung in there. As I stated, nothing wrong mechanically (or visually) with the car...however after 10 years, some items just tend to get more worn than others. I'm very happy with how long it lasted me and am trying my hand with a new bimmer again and hope to have teh same success.

[Hawkshaw]

Originally Posted by rishid

Hi,

I have been trying to decide between a 325xi and an IS-250 (AWD) for 3-4 months. I have driven both cars and enjoy them both, they are much better than my current car (98 Mitsu Eclipse). The one thing I am worried about with the E90 is the long term costs in terms of repair on the electronics.

I want to keep this car between 8 to 10 years so I am looking at least 100K mileage on the car. I don't want to have to deal with expensive BMW electronics failing or a lot of unnecessary car maintenance. I understand no one can really know how well the electronics will be in eight years from now, but I could use some opinions.

Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks, appreciate it.

I thought my dealer told me that the warranty on the electronics was lifetime or 12 years or something? I just remember her telling me and thinking I wouldn't have to worry about it for as long as I own the car.

Maybe check with your dealer on electronics warranty.

[wheeler]

Originally Posted by Hawkshaw

I thought my dealer told me that the warranty on the electronics was lifetime or 12 years or something? I just remember her telling me and thinking I wouldn't have to worry about it for as long as I own the car.

Maybe check with your dealer on electronics warranty.

Did you buy a bridge at the same time?

[Frank_NJ]

The down fall to the Lexus is from day one you pay the maintenance on the car where as the BMW you don't. With BMW you can extend the maintenance prgram to 6 years 100K miles for about $950 which gets you back to square one like the day you took delivery of the car. Does Lexus have that.....no! I know someone with the Lexus and always complained to me about the maitenance cost. That is my 2 cents.

[foofighter]

read this article

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2006/index.html

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by foofighter

read this article

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2006/index.html

I'm confused because all of the models mentioned don't have free maintance like BMW. Also, they only offer 3year/36000mile warranties. I would have thought BMW would be at the top of the list...

[Acornz]

Originally Posted by rishid

Hi,

I have been trying to decide between a 325xi and an IS-250 (AWD) for 3-4 months. I have driven both cars and enjoy them both, they are much better than my current car (98 Mitsu Eclipse). The one thing I am worried about with the E90 is the long term costs in terms of repair on the electronics.

I want to keep this car between 8 to 10 years so I am looking at least 100K mileage on the car. I don't want to have to deal with expensive BMW electronics failing or a lot of unnecessary car maintenance. I understand no one can really know how well the electronics will be in eight years from now, but I could use some opinions.

Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks, appreciate it.

Funny thing, we have both the cars you are considering (except IS350 instead of AWD 250) but obviously haven't had either of them long enough to tell you about long term quality. I love both cars but the one thing that always gets to me is that I'm gonna have to pay up the you know what for maintenance costs for the Lexus. From now on, sticking with BMW's only.

[ed328ci]

In my 6 years of E46 ownership, until the infamous subframe problem appeared in Feb, the only other issue was a leak in the coolent pump seal. That's it. On the whole though, Hondas and Toyotas (Lexus) are more reliable than European makes.

Ed

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by rishid

Hi,

I have been trying to decide between a 325xi and an IS-250 (AWD) for 3-4 months. I have driven both cars and enjoy them both, they are much better than my current car (98 Mitsu Eclipse). The one thing I am worried about with the E90 is the long term costs in terms of repair on the electronics.

I want to keep this car between 8 to 10 years so I am looking at least 100K mileage on the car. I don't want to have to deal with expensive BMW electronics failing or a lot of unnecessary car maintenance. I understand no one can really know how well the electronics will be in eight years from now, but I could use some opinions.

Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks, appreciate it.

This is a good question. My answer to you is the following: If you stay away from items such as I-Drive and other electronic gizmo's (ie, active steering, auto sensing wipers, etc) the long term reliability should be about the same IF you drive the BMW as you would the Lexus. BMW respond well when driven hard, but there's the cost of added maintenance.

Remember this when it comes to BMW's. Liftime Fluid = approx 100k miles. I would expect the X-drive system to be expensive to replace so changing your A/T fluid at 30/60/90 k miles would be good piece of mind IMO.

[akhbhaat]

Electronic issues with German cars are far worse by reputation than reality. A couple stories about a bad nav unit or flaky wiring harness leak out and suddenly every BMW, Audi or Mercedes on the road is a time bomb waiting to explode into a flurry of electric problems. The last legitimately bad car (of any make or country of origin) we had was a 1989 (E32) 735il (which also happened to be my first car! ), and the majority of its problems came about mainly because it was almost never driven and the various devices and toys (such as the A/C system activating the cool the cabin automatically, even when the car was not running) it had would quickly drain the battery if not given the opportunity to charge via alternator or otherwise. That, and the E32 was really just a bit ambitious from a design standpoint given the technology of the day.

I've been driving my E46 for over six years and it hasn't had a single electrical problem or glitch - of any kind - ever. This is if you discount the bad exhaust cam position sensor I had at 30,000 miles or the two times I've replaced the final stage (blower) resistor. These are very easy repairs, however, and the parts are inexpensive. I consider an electrical problem to be something within the vehicle's electronics that catalyzes other failures and is difficult and expensive to diagnose and repair. The very occasional bad sensor doesn't qualify.

If you look at the long term JD Power reliability ratings, for example, even some of the worst manufacturers only average 2 or 3 problems more per car over a given period of time (usually at least two years) than the very best. With production standards and technology being where they are, it's really impossible to buy a horribly (or dangerously) unreliable car these days...well, there are no French cars sold in the US these days, so I don't think that statement can necessarily apply worldwide.

You'll always hear comments from (mainly Japanese) buyers chiding their German and American buying counterparts for being "unreliable" or some such. Ignore them. Almost none of these people have actually owned a modern German car, and have made the mistake of using apocryphal anecdotes to form an "objective" opinion. Strictly anecdotal support never holds up under the critical eye. For example, aside from the aforementioned E32, the second and third worst cars my family owned were a Lexus and an Acura, respectively. The Lexus had all sorts of issues with engine sludge (caused by the placement angle of the engine; not all of the oil would drain during a change, and this oil would eventually sludge over and wreck havoc with the rest of the unit), faulty ignition unit, frequent battery failures, and a transmission which frequently refused to utilize the overdrive gear. I'll give Lexus credit, though - they took care of us, even when the car was out of warranty. The service is as good as advertised. As for the Acura (2nd gen CL)? New transmission at 5,000 miles, warped brake rotors right out of the factory, problems with the driver-side one-touch window, headlights which would fail intermittantly.

So do I think Lexus and Acura build shoddy, unreliable cars? Of course not. Given the sheer complexity of a modern automobile and the speed at which they are produced, occasional issues are to be expected - and quite frankly, I'm surprised that cars are as reliable as they are - automation helps. We live in a truly wonderful age of technology.

[RaptorKTM]

um let me break it down. I have an 1989 525i 300,000 miles and ive never had aproblem yet. Also BMW has the best warrenty in the world All you worry about is tires. THATS IT and you can extend the warrenty to 6 years 100,000 so bmw is much much cheaper

[voltron1011]

Well put akhbhaat... I owned two Toyotas a couple of years ago (Tacoma and Celica GTS) and they both had their share of visits to the dealership. I've known plenty of BMW owner's who've never had an issue with their cars in 8+ years of ownership.

[BMWDavid]

My everyday driver is an 84 633csi. OK, the odometer stopped working a year ago. It reads 209954. I estimate it has over 230k. This is my 6th BMW. No other problems. #7 was an 05 M3 that I happily put 23k miles on in 11 months. I had a problem one time with the flat tire monitor. Turns out the technician didn't reset it properly after I had a flat tire replaced. I don't expect any problems with #8 either, the 06 M3 in SC.

I see a lot of old Toyotas on the road too. I learned how to drive a stick in an old Corolla. The thing had 150k on it.

BMWs are more fun and cheaper to own over the long run, even with purchasing the extended maintenance to 100k figured in. I sell both Lexus and BMW. I go home with a better feeling when I sell the BMW because I think it's a better value for my customers. Reliability is a very important issue to consider, hence the thread, but at this level both makes are excellent. I would consider them to be equal in the reliability dept.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by rishid

Hi,

I have been trying to decide between a 325xi and an IS-250 (AWD) for 3-4 months. I have driven both cars and enjoy them both, they are much better than my current car (98 Mitsu Eclipse). The one thing I am worried about with the E90 is the long term costs in terms of repair on the electronics.

I want to keep this car between 8 to 10 years so I am looking at least 100K mileage on the car. I don't want to have to deal with expensive BMW electronics failing or a lot of unnecessary car maintenance. I understand no one can really know how well the electronics will be in eight years from now, but I could use some opinions.

Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks, appreciate it.

lol, it was kind of funny how you said "they are much better than my current car". Something about it sounded really funny. I mean IS250/325i better feel much more "car" than the mitsu eclipse. Eclipse = crap. (I made a mistake buying one myself 4 years ago. Sold it in 4 months). DSMs can be made to go really fast for just few $$ though.

Back on topic, you need reliability. Lexus stands for reliability. forget what all the people in this thread claiming "100k and still reliable bmw machine". National statistics proved that BMWs aren't the most reliable machines in this world. Don't fall into some stories told by people online. You'll hear that kind of crap everywhere on the web. I heard all about them stories, bought my BMW and guess what, reliability my ass. Do a search and see countless people with E90s having reliability problems in this forum alone. Reliability reports show bmw reliability improved but still far behind lexus. I personally only owned japanese vehicles before this BMW(first one). Yes, this one is not reliable. It already made several trips to the dealership. All electrical. LAME. Some can be stupid as fancy-non-functional cup holder not working. You hear BMW owners being so proud of hitting 100k, they better realize there are MANY MANY MANY more japanese car owners hitting 100k like its nothing, and hitting 200/300k and still running strong, just lower compression readings, thats all.


You don't buy BMW thinking about reliability. You buy BMW for performance and pure driving pleasure.

[govtec]

statistics don't lie dude! if ur concern about reliability, stick with toyota and honda. statistically they fare better by a couple of percentage points. y not take a chance when the numbers are that close? i did, coming from a honda i shared the same concern as u but so far in 8 months of ownership no major issues or recalls. u've already read about positive and negative experience with japanese brands from above posters, nothing is guaranteed. whichever one makes u feel comfortable in, i would go with that.

[flush01]

i didnt like is350 at all, but i guess im biosed

[ward]

even if the lexus does end up being cheaper it will "cost" more in that you'll be in a more bland and boring to drive car for such a long time


plus you can't get the big motor with a stick, WTF is that all about

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by ward

plus you can't get the big motor with a stick, WTF is that all about

lol. true that. Who dumps in a 300hp motor to a car and mate it to an autotragic only?
Rumor is that 6spd will be available in 2nd or 3rd year production IS though. like the previous generation trend.

[foofighter]

i dont keep my cars that long to be even concerned about total cost of ownership...life's too short...enjoy what you drive and drive often