BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2016, 04:14 PM   #1
BMW135pls
First Lieutenant
BMW135pls's Avatar
United_States
90
Rep
341
Posts

Drives: Bucket of screws and sadness
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: NJ, USA

iTrader: (0)

Camber Dilemma (Extreme OCD inside)

I have a garage date in a few days for my complete suspension overhaul (in signature) and an alignment following that. I want to increase camber of mainly the front tires for improved handling balance and tire wear purposes, I will not be tracking my car frequently. I also really dislike the "LOOK" of a heavily cambered car, so I've created quite a mental dilemma in my head, please excuse my OCD in the following paragraphs. I am new to building a sports car so I don't have a reference point for what camber angles look like, and you can only tell so much from google pictures on a flat screen.

I read up on the forums a while ago and came to the conclusion that a good way to camber this car with sport tuned suspension is with rear tires being cambered about 80% of the front angle (nobody put it into those words, I just noted it based on frequent camber specs given by posters with similar mods). I also found that a front camber value of -3 or above is recommended for track use, and a value of -2.5 is sort of a good versatile option that's between street and dedicated/frequent track use.

With my personal bias against visual amounts of camber, I had planned to tone that down to about -2.2 front camber which would put the rears at -1.8. Now that my garage date is only a few days away I am getting paranoid that even that would be too extreme and I am now thinking that -2 in front and -1.6 in back would be a solid place to start that likely wouldn't be too extreme. Any input from current posters?
__________________
Model: '08 135i N54 6AT Coupe ///M Sport - E85 + 93 = E30
Mods: AA DPs + Gen I - BMS JB4 (Race + Map 2) + DCI + OCC - Cobb CP - ///M RSFB + Front Control Arms - Koni Yellow - Swift Spec R - Vorshlag camber plates - MPSS 225/255 - x-ph Angel Eyes 160w
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2016, 05:20 PM   #2
Pig Farmer
Major
340
Rep
1,293
Posts

Drives: E92M
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Personally, I think the 80% ratio is overkill in the rear (especially on the street). My setup is a bit different than yours, and I am forced to run -2.7 degrees camber up front to clear the fenders using 245 section width MPSSs. In the rear I've slowly reduced the negative camber in the rear to -1.4. With this setup, I never feel like I'm going to loose the rear end unexpectedly, but can rotate the car with the throttle in a very controlled manner. Just for a point of reference, I'm running 265 section width in the rear, so it's less staggered than the setup in your signature.

Another thing to consider is tire wear. Obviously the rears tend to wear fasted than the fronts since they are putting the power down. In the past while running -1.6 camber in the rear, the inside of the rear tires would start showing cords well before the fronts. With my current setup, the front and rear tires tend to go off at the same time (~10k miles).

On a street car, a ratio of 50-60% should give you better wear and better balance. I wouldn't worry about the "look" unless you plan on going beyond -3 degrees. I defy anyone for being able to recognize the difference between -2.2 and -2.5 or-1.9 without a plumb bob in hand.
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2016, 06:13 PM   #3
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

-2* front is going to give you uneven tire wear. The car will handle better at the limit, but you probably aren't reaching that point too much on the street. You certainly won't be able to drive the car hard enough to make it wear evenly.
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2016, 06:56 PM   #4
John_01
Colonel
John_01's Avatar
Australia
232
Rep
2,643
Posts

Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

-2.0 degrees front camber is not needed for street driving. The tire wear may not be too bad, but if you do a lot of mileage you will eventually notice the tires wearing unevenly. For people who are focused on some type of motorsport, the tire wear normally isn't an issue as they generally don't do a lot of street mileage anyway.

IMO, around -1.3 to -1.5 degrees is about the maximum front camber you should intend to use as a dedicated street alignment. It will give a lot less understeer than stock. For increasing camber, it is a case of diminishing returns. More camber doesn't automatically give better handling. My advice is to avoid going over -1.5 degrees front camber if the car is setup for street use unless you have a good reason for doing so.
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2016, 11:51 PM   #5
BMW135pls
First Lieutenant
BMW135pls's Avatar
United_States
90
Rep
341
Posts

Drives: Bucket of screws and sadness
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: NJ, USA

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the input. Older threads that I read made it seem like tire wear would be uneven on the fronts until you get above 2 degrees.

I could do -1.8 in the fronts and -1.4 in the rear if 1.4 is a magic number for the rears, although as PF said, my setup is different than his. I think this is a good time to bring up that I will be trying out wheel spacers to try and get the wheels flush with the body. They are 15mm front and 18mm rear. Hopefully there will be no rubbing.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2016, 07:05 PM   #6
chris82
Brigadier General
chris82's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
3,856
Posts

Drives: 128i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NY NY

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2009 BMW 128i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135pls View Post
I have a garage date in a few days for my complete suspension overhaul (in signature) and an alignment following that. I want to increase camber of mainly the front tires for improved handling balance and tire wear purposes, I will not be tracking my car frequently. I also really dislike the "LOOK" of a heavily cambered car, so I've created quite a mental dilemma in my head, please excuse my OCD in the following paragraphs. I am new to building a sports car so I don't have a reference point for what camber angles look like, and you can only tell so much from google pictures on a flat screen.

I read up on the forums a while ago and came to the conclusion that a good way to camber this car with sport tuned suspension is with rear tires being cambered about 80% of the front angle (nobody put it into those words, I just noted it based on frequent camber specs given by posters with similar mods). I also found that a front camber value of -3 or above is recommended for track use, and a value of -2.5 is sort of a good versatile option that's between street and dedicated/frequent track use.

With my personal bias against visual amounts of camber, I had planned to tone that down to about -2.2 front camber which would put the rears at -1.8. Now that my garage date is only a few days away I am getting paranoid that even that would be too extreme and I am now thinking that -2 in front and -1.6 in back would be a solid place to start that likely wouldn't be too extreme. Any input from current posters?
Here is my car with -2 camber. Might as well go with -2 vs -2.2 for the street no?
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      01-14-2016, 07:18 PM   #7
chris82
Brigadier General
chris82's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
3,856
Posts

Drives: 128i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NY NY

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2009 BMW 128i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
-2* front is going to give you uneven tire wear. The car will handle better at the limit, but you probably aren't reaching that point too much on the street. You certainly won't be able to drive the car hard enough to make it wear evenly.
You can get away with -2 in front.
Appreciate 1
      01-16-2016, 02:58 PM   #8
BMW135pls
First Lieutenant
BMW135pls's Avatar
United_States
90
Rep
341
Posts

Drives: Bucket of screws and sadness
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: NJ, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
Here is my car with -2 camber. Might as well go with -2 vs -2.2 for the street no?
Yeah that looks great, thanks for taking a picture! I ended up going with -1.8 in the front and -1.4 in the rear. Figure I start small, see how tire wear ends up being, and adjust from there. Even -1.8 is a HUGE improvement from stock which is I think .3 in the front, I am eating the outer sidewalls of the front tires and quick. Saw noticeable wear no more than 1 week after getting new tires. Rears have been fine however, so no issue there. I believe the stock rear angle is -1.3, so not too much of a change there. I'm excited, should be a great change.
__________________
Model: '08 135i N54 6AT Coupe ///M Sport - E85 + 93 = E30
Mods: AA DPs + Gen I - BMS JB4 (Race + Map 2) + DCI + OCC - Cobb CP - ///M RSFB + Front Control Arms - Koni Yellow - Swift Spec R - Vorshlag camber plates - MPSS 225/255 - x-ph Angel Eyes 160w
Appreciate 0
      01-17-2016, 07:13 PM   #9
chris82
Brigadier General
chris82's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
3,856
Posts

Drives: 128i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NY NY

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2009 BMW 128i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135pls View Post
Yeah that looks great, thanks for taking a picture! I ended up going with -1.8 in the front and -1.4 in the rear. Figure I start small, see how tire wear ends up being, and adjust from there. Even -1.8 is a HUGE improvement from stock which is I think .3 in the front, I am eating the outer sidewalls of the front tires and quick. Saw noticeable wear no more than 1 week after getting new tires. Rears have been fine however, so no issue there. I believe the stock rear angle is -1.3, so not too much of a change there. I'm excited, should be a great change.
If you're seeing wear after a week on new tires, I think the alignment must be off.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST