What's better??

[The1]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

So with the JB, there is no going to a tuner and having a map made for you specifically for your mods? Or having BMS send you new calibrations based off your mods? It sounds super convenient, but it also sounds like you're not going to ever get the most out of your mods? Someone care to chime in?

with the JB+ the original poster is talking about, there are gains of power, but nothing major.

If you're wanting to fully optimise the car, get the JB4 and put it on autotune. It will self adjust to everything you have done as far as mods go.

at it's lowest end, it's about 11psi and if you run wide open exhaust and front mount and etc. you can get up to about 16psi.

no, this isn't fully optimized for your car, the best way to do that is find a tuner with a dyno in their garage and put your car on it. get a map made specifically for your car. But if you do that, you don't have choices for how high of an octane you get to run or any of that.

there are pros and cons to all flashes and piggybacks depending on your needs.

And OP, if you're putting downpipes in with a JB+, make sure to get the CEL delete as well, or you'll get throwing codes.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

So with the JB, there is no going to a tuner and having a map made for you specifically for your mods? Or having BMS send you new calibrations based off your mods? It sounds super convenient, but it also sounds like you're not going to ever get the most out of your mods? Someone care to chime in?

The JB is a piggy tune, not a flash. It only affects certain areas of engine performance. Specifically the JB+ will only up the amount of boost you have, so the gain is not linear and smooth and it really only is felt when WOT. A FLASH is a full bodied TUNE to boost the entire engine's performance at all levels, and of course you have the ability to select diff maps n such based on mods and also switch back to stock in a matter of minutes without going into the ECU or engine at all.

Personally i have NO clue why anyone would go for a piggy tune on a car like this when there are things like the COBB flash and GIAC tunes as well available

[Vectors2final]

I am new to the piggy-back stuff for sure, as I am used to the Subaru world. Opensource ECU, or an AccessPort(which I had). You can use Cobb's OTS maps and forget about it, or you can can go to Cobb and get a ProTune.. Does Cobb ProTune the 135s? If that's the case, I'd much rather opt for that honestly unless the JB did offer a lot more(not sounding like it if you can ProTune). I know the benefits of owning the AP, and I almost can't justify a JB if I can just get on the dyno and tune.

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by thez99

Personally i have NO clue why anyone would go for a piggy tune on a car like this when there are things like the COBB flash and GIAC tunes as well available

I can tell you my reasons.

1. Price
2. Hp per dollar ratio
3. Location

I don't care for giac, but for Cobb...I'll consider them when they have more support for more bolt ons and some race gas map.

[The1]

i don't believe the protuner software is available yet, but it's not too far away for us.

I'm waiting to see what they come with before i jump on this for my car. it is obviously the best solution because you can do several different maps programed specifically for your car.

you can use the JB4 for some dyno stuff, but i think it's a bit limited in its application, so not really worth it. If you want a everymans tune that can self adapt to your car, the JB4 and the Procede V5 both do this. And they are very safe, but obviously not 100% made for your specific car.

[The1]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

I can tell you my reasons.

1. Price
2. Hp per dollar ratio
3. Location

I don't care for giac, but for Cobb...I'll consider them when they have more support for more bolt ons and some race gas map.

this is exactly my standpoint right now.

I ran a JB3 for a bit, and will be running the JB4 in a few days, but these are only temporary untill Cobb gets more support for people with higher tunes, or finally releases the protuner software.

[Vectors2final]

That would be my standpoint as well. Location is fine as I am in Cobb mecca and can go to whichever I prefer. Price point is pretty good with the JB, and could possibly see Cobbs worth over the next year or so. I was stage 2 in my WRX, but since I am going to pretty much go full bolt-ons just about all at once, I'd like to move beyond "stage 2" because the Cobb maps are nothing but an off the shelf affair until they allow people to ProTune, or offer it themselves.

[The1]

yup, Cobb and GAIC and etc, are really not much better then a piggy back right now as they are just off the shelf universal maps as well, including Dinan.

the only true tuning you'll get is if you go to a dyno and do it specific for your car, and that's as safe as it gets.

So if and when the protune software is released, jump on it!

[thez99]

So ur all waiting for the map that allows for open cats then is that wut ur saying? Cuz otherwise the current maps from Cobb adjust thru pretty much any other mod save a catless DP..

Dollar for dollar, id get a helluva lot more out of an $800 cobb AP than a $280 JB+ for instance. Plus its not all about JUST hp number. Its everything. Sure you simply add a few more psi of boost thru the MAF but it doesnt tune the care, just boost u a bit more during WOT. But what about the rest of the power band, what about low down torque and throttle gain, what bout properly adjusting the fuel to air, keeping everything in check thru the tune so as to not run rich or lean? Usually the entire package does not come with a piggy. I ran an APR flash on my mk5 gti with catted dp's, totally changed the entire performance range of that engine.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by The1

yup, Cobb and GAIC and etc, are really not much better then a piggy back right now as they are just off the shelf universal maps as well, including Dinan.

the only true tuning you'll get is if you go to a dyno and do it specific for your car, and that's as safe as it gets.

So if and when the protune software is released, jump on it!

Dont see how you can technically say that, just the ease of installation and usage of different maps alone make the flash a much better buy in my book, among other reasons. Im not a "protuner" myself so I wouldnt have a clue wtf to do with loads of super technical numbers on a computer program loaded with the unit, if thats how itll work or not..
Flashes like Cobbs are specific to your car, whether u have certain mods or not thats the whole reason for firmware updates and diff maps, so if ur stock u have one map, if you have an exhaust and open intake u have another, yada yada. Its not just a one size fits all kinda thing. Every exp ive had with a piggy is no adjustability, just a pain in the ass to install, gives a little boost but not linear and thats that, no further boosting down the road.

P.S. Also, sorry, but wtf would I pay $800 just to tune everything all over again specific to my needs?? I want to PAY for a flash that tunes my car already for what it is, like I said im no technically advanced tuner, nor im sure are alot of others on here, so id much rather take the "off the shelf" tune thats already tuned for my car, than pay the same money and spend hours n hours dicking with lil technical details that could easily mess with my car in a bad way. Why not let the prof's take care of that??? Why else does COBB ask you to list basically everything u have on ur car before buying their flash? Because they tune it specifically to U.

[The1]

that's why i don't run the JB+ i don't really feel that it covers enough of the basics and doesn't incorperate the safety features built into the cars ECU. Piggybacks have come a long way in the past few years and are now taking over a lot more of the ECU then ever before.

I have a lot more faith then i used to in these things. But i still worry. I always will, but that's because i've run a fully modded WRX with dyno tune, and i know the difference in how they manage everything.

But considering how many more failsafes are now in place, my worry isn't as bad.

[The1]

Originally Posted by thez99

Dont see how you can technically say that, just the ease of installation and usage of different maps alone make the flash a much better buy in my book, among other reasons. Im not a "protuner" myself so I wouldnt have a clue wtf to do with loads of super technical numbers on a computer program loaded with the unit, if thats how itll work or not..
Flashes like Cobbs are specific to your car, whether u have certain mods or not thats the whole reason for firmware updates and diff maps, so if ur stock u have one map, if you have an exhaust and open intake u have another, yada yada. Its not just a one size fits all kinda thing. Every exp ive had with a piggy is no adjustability, just a pain in the ass to install, gives a little boost but not linear and thats that, no further boosting down the road.

P.S. Also, sorry, but wtf would I pay $800 just to tune everything all over again specific to my needs?? I want to PAY for a flash that tunes my car already for what it is, like I said im no technically advanced tuner, nor im sure are alot of others on here, so id much rather take the "off the shelf" tune thats already tuned for my car, than pay the same money and spend hours n hours dicking with lil technical details that could easily mess with my car in a bad way. Why not let the prof's take care of that??? Why else does COBB ask you to list basically everything u have on ur car before buying their flash? Because they tune it specifically to U.

all those flashes are right now is one for all. they don't take into consideration your different stages of mods yet.

that's down the road a ways still.

so right now, you'd be paying for the cobbs hand held device, not really the tunes, and the tunes they are still working bugs out on the stage 1 which still doesn't include any other modifications yet.

[thez99]

Guess the point of my shpeal is, i dont want to have to fuck with my ECU at ALL. All the lil wires, blah blah, feel like im gonna fuck the whole thing up, no thank you. COBB AP just plugs into the port, boop boop, ur done. When u need to go to the dealership, boop boop, uninstall, 5 minutes ur done, nothing in the engine messed with, period.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by The1

all those flashes are right now is one for all. they don't take into consideration your different stages of mods yet.

that's down the road a ways still.

so right now, you'd be paying for the cobbs hand held device, not really the tunes, and the tunes they are still working bugs out on the stage 1 which still doesn't include any other modifications yet.

Why is it they ask for all that info then? Why do they have all those lovely lil diff maps listed on their site for our car? Cant see how theyd release the thing JUST for a stock car, pretty sure ive read quite the contrary on their thread here as well..but who knows

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by thez99

Guess the point of my shpeal is, i dont want to have to fuck with my ECU at ALL. All the lil wires, blah blah, feel like im gonna fuck the whole thing up, no thank you. COBB AP just plugs into the port, boop boop, ur done. When u need to go to the dealership, boop boop, uninstall, 5 minutes ur done, nothing in the engine messed with, period.

I've taken my car to the dealer with the jb4 set to map 0 (stock bypass) without any issues. They are a godsend compared to my previous Mitsubishi dealership.

[The1]

Originally Posted by thez99

Guess the point of my shpeal is, i dont want to have to fuck with my ECU at ALL. All the lil wires, blah blah, feel like im gonna fuck the whole thing up, no thank you. COBB AP just plugs into the port, boop boop, ur done. When u need to go to the dealership, boop boop, uninstall, 5 minutes ur done, nothing in the engine messed with, period.

that is the only advantage at this point in time pretty much.

but youre right, in time all those other stages will be available, and if you have the hand held device now, you'll have access to all those other things later down the road, so is it a good investment for someone with no mods right now? Yes. is it a good investment for me with downpipes and intercooler, No. Will it be in the future, very much so, and i look forward to it.

I purchased the JB3 before the AP ever came out, so the upgrade to JB4 was cheap. Had i just purchased this car now and was only just starting to buy parts, i might have held off a little longer to wait for the AP to get all the support i want.

So if you are currently on 0 modifications i wouldn't think twice about getting the AP right now. And do your upgrades to coincide with the release of more maps. at that point, the AP is the best bang for buck.

[Vectors2final]

Well, I am going to deploy in a couple weeks so I hope that Cobb will be ready for me to show up at their door for a protune when I come back, if not, I'll be mighty tempted to go JB4..

[RnmEvo9]

Oh and in regards to the topic, I just had my raceland downpipes in and they definitely help out. My butt dyno isn't that sensitive as I was used to a faster car, but downpipes definitely tickled my butt dyno. Just be prepared to have less traction than before!

[Vectors2final]

It doesn't matter if they are set up for your car. EVERY car is different and cars with the same mods on the same dyno will not be alike and make the same WHP, and those off the shelf tunes might not work out for everyone and honestly should be for the set it and forget it types. You will not have to pay 800 dollars AGAIN to get a ProTune by Cobb. They will charge you their hourly rate not to exceed xxx.xx. The best thing about AccessPorts is that they will put you on their dyno and make a tune for your car. If it takes a million years, or it never happens then I'll move on. This stuff has been in the Subaru world for a while now, and if they can Ptune these cars like the Subarus I am in.

[The1]

Originally Posted by thez99

Why is it they ask for all that info then? Why do they have all those lovely lil diff maps listed on their site for our car? Cant see how theyd release the thing JUST for a stock car, pretty sure ive read quite the contrary on their thread here as well..but who knows

there's been different software updates for different model years. it's like how the BMW perfomance suspension doesn't work properly on all the cars, so they came out with replacements.

the 2007 N54 had to have a different map made because of something in the internals of the engine, so it was treated differently.

it's still universal, but they are just not making mistakes.

like you came from the subarus, and they made minor chances to the 2.5L turbo several different times throughout the last 6 years, companies have had to pay attention to that. Obviously not to the same extent they are with the N54, but it is a huge factor.

places that do warrantied flashes will look up to see which engine flash was last done on your car because their flash has been optimized for different DME updates, so they want to give you the one that works with your engine diagnostics, not specifically your mods.

[The1]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

It doesn't matter if they are set up for your car. EVERY car is different and cars with the same mods on the same dyno will not be alike and make the same WHP, and those off the shelf tunes might not work out for everyone and honestly should be for the set it and forget it types. You will not have to pay 800 dollars AGAIN to get a ProTune by Cobb. They will charge you their hourly rate not to exceed xxx.xx. The best thing about AccessPorts is that they will put you on their dyno and make a tune for your car. If it takes a million years, or it never happens then I'll move on. This stuff has been in the Subaru world for a while now, and if they can Ptune these cars like the Subarus I am in.

they should be able too, they are into many different cars at this point and starting to get a monopoly on the car tuning culture as a result of their marketing and user friendlyness.

I will likely end up with this down the road when all my mods are installed. but untill such time, Their kit is just not where it needs to be for me yet.

this is literally "Can't wait" so i'll make due with what i have until it's prepared properly.

[Vectors2final]

Here are the map note for the 135i calibrations.

http://cobbtuning.com/products/?id=5832

It mentions the maps are intended for stock vehicles and a cat-back is okay.


The main thing that keeps me from getting an AP is having to switch maps when I drive back to California. I had to do that with my WRX and it sucked ass. The JBs ability to adjust to types of fuels is pretty damn good if you ask me.