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[atr_hugo]

Hey Gary@TireRack TireRack!! I'm a bit baffled by the objective numbers posted by a set of Ultra High Performance All Season tires compared to a set of Max Performance Summer tires.

The tests were written up in July 2016 and involved Michelin Pilot Super Sport and the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ as well as the Pirelli P Zero PZ4 and P Zero All Season Plus.

The tire sizes and test vehicles were the same but the wet performance was significantly better for the all seasons and the dry performance was not far removed.

Are there atmospheric differences that explain this away? Or have I missed the revolution (again ; -)?

[tsk94]

Wow, interesting find. The wet performance makes sense to me. I'd be curious to what others have to say regarding the slight (almost negligible?) difference in dry performance.

[The Wind Breezes]

This just in, all seasons perform well in the rain and not all summer tires do.

Aside from that, peak numbers are real deceptive because they don't tell you anything about the feel of the tire, like slip angle vs grip or how progressively it breaks away. Plus if you track the car an all season (and many summer tires) won't be able to stand up to the heat and physical abuse lap after lap.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

This just in, all seasons perform well in the rain and not all summer tires do.

Aside from that, peak numbers are real deceptive because they don't tell you anything about the feel of the tire, like slip angle vs grip or how progressively it breaks away. Plus if you track the car an all season (and many summer tires) won't be able to stand up to the heat and physical abuse lap after lap.

Not so concerned for track use, I have R compounds for that.

More so for daily use, especially areas that can see snow. It would be appealing to get almost identical performance on the street from a PS A/S 3+ as you would a PSS, but if you happen to end up in some light snow, you're not completely screwed.

I've never really considered the PS A/S 3+, didn't think they'd be as good as they might be. I've used many sets Max performance summer tires for daily use (PSS, ExtremeContact DW) and have been happy with them in the dry and wet. But with unpredictable weather where I live, they have left my stranded, waiting for the snow to melt. With something in the Ultra High Performance A/S category, that probably would not have happened..

[smrtypants44]

My problem with running all seasons year round is that by the time winter comes around my rear tires are so worn down they might as well be summers...

[Dackelone]

There is no better setup than having two sets of tires/wheels. Summers and winters.

There IS a reason why all season tires are called No-Seasons.

[tsk94]

Wouldn't be a replacement for me for my winters, just in the months leading up to winter where it could snow but is dry and nice out 95% of the time. While having almost the same dry and wet performance as the summers.

[c1pher]

I don't consider AS3+ a year round tire but figure it will do better in early spring and late fall than PSS will. I can live with a little less summer performance if it extends my driving without changing tires.

So far I love them.

[atr_hugo]

I don't (won't) track the car - I've run Michelin Pilot A/S 3s and liked them. I also have a set of winter tires/wheels. I have no intention of running AS tires in winter (Heck, I even thought about three sets at one time, Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Conti DWS, and Blizzaks, the finance committee wouldn't buy into that one. ; -)

What I'd want an all season for is the tread compound that allows decent performance in less than ideal temps. Also wet handling is critical to me since that's when most other drivers will present the greatest threat. So any inches I can reduce stopping distances by, or percent of g's I can increase handling by, allow me to potentially avoid idjits ; -).

I just think I missed how good all seasons are getting (I was asleep during the sexual revolution too . . . <VBG>).

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

I don't (won't) track the car - I've run Michelin Pilot A/S 3s and liked them. I also have a set of winter tires/wheels. I have no intention of running AS tires in winter (Heck, I even thought about three sets at one time, Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Conti DWS, and Blizzaks, the finance committee wouldn't buy into that one. ; -)

What I'd want an all season for is the tread compound that allows decent performance in less than ideal temps. Also wet handling is critical to me since that's when most other drivers will present the greatest threat. So any inches I can reduce stopping distances by, or percent of g's I can increase handling by, allow me to potentially avoid idjits ; -).

I just think I missed how good all seasons are getting (I was asleep during the sexual revolution too . . . <VBG>).

I'm in the same boat. I have separate winters and have no intention on replacing them with all seasons. With that being said, judging by the numbers, the A/S 3+'s will perform just as well in the dry, maybe better in the wet, and have light snow usability if needed, compared to my current Conti ExtremeContact DW's. Might be an option to look at once these are worn.

[gjm120]

If you're looking at all seasons and considering the DWS06, read the first 3 posts on this thread.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1392234

I think b/c of the poor early version of the tire, the Comp-2 A/S gets overlooked.

[Bimmer-Bob]

When I used to live in places where I could run a summer tire year-round (TX, CA, NC, Spain), I did. Now in the the Puget Sound area, it just makes more sense to run an all-season - the winters are too cold for a summer tire, but not really cold enough to warrant a full-on winter tire. I think the Continental DWS06 is a fantastic tire for an all-season, and I've been a die-hard low treadwear, Extreme Performance summer tire guy (Dunlop Direzzas, BFG Rivals, Bridgestone RE-71R). Now I save those tires for autocross and use the Conti all-seasons for the street. They've got nice stiff sidewalls that transmit a lot of feel.

[tsk94]

Has anyone driven the A/S 3+ and able to compare them to the PSS?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Has anyone driven the A/S 3+ and able to compare them to the PSS?

I have used both, there is no comparison.

Also, from above, you can not compare numbers from two different tests. It is meaningless.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I have used both, there is no comparison.

Also, from above, you can not compare numbers from two different tests. It is meaningless.

Why would the numbers be considered meaningless? Same size tire used on the same car on the same course. Yes they might achieve the numbers differently, but they aren't far off from one another.

I realize they can't be as good as the PSS, otherwise the PSS wouldn't exist. I'm just curious in the difference in feel between the two.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Why would the numbers be considered meaningless? Same size tire used on the same car on the same course. Yes they might achieve the numbers differently, but they aren't far off from one another.

I realize they can't be as good as the PSS, otherwise the PSS wouldn't exist. I'm just curious in the difference in feel between the two.

The actual numbers would really only be meaningful if they were all tested under the same conditions.

The AS3 I find ride much harsher than the SS, the sidewalls feel stiffer. That also gives you slightly better turn in. The AS3 are also noticeably noisier and have a high frequency vibration. It is actually more like a road noise you can feel though the steering wheel. Hope that makes sense.

The SS have noticeably more grip.

I am actually shocked how well the SS grip in colder weather, even down to the freezing point. So much so, I have decided to stop using my AS3 intermediate (spring/fall) tires.

[Rallim]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

I don't (won't) track the car - I've run Michelin Pilot A/S 3s and liked them. I also have a set of winter tires/wheels. I have no intention of running AS tires in winter (Heck, I even thought about three sets at one time, Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Conti DWS, and Blizzaks, the finance committee wouldn't buy into that one. ; -)

What I'd want an all season for is the tread compound that allows decent performance in less than ideal temps. Also wet handling is critical to me since that's when most other drivers will present the greatest threat. So any inches I can reduce stopping distances by, or percent of g's I can increase handling by, allow me to potentially avoid idjits ; -).

I just think I missed how good all seasons are getting (I was asleep during the sexual revolution too . . . <VBG>).

If you're not going to track your car, you will not need anything past the high performance all seasons.

I've driven on various performance tires, PSS's, KDW's, Z1 Star specs, Azenis's, Extremecontact DW's ect.

Grip is great. I'll make it simple, my DWS06's I've struggled to BREAK traction on. I've autocrossed on them, and the only way I could lose grip with them, was to charge way too hard into a hairpin intentionally.

So, simply put, they have more grip than you'll ever need.

I went through about 3 sets of tires on my E39 M5 in 20k miles, all sticky, it's great, but it gets old.

The DWS's and others have a much higher tread wear rating and will last much longer, saving you much money in the long run. Without you getting the full benefit from driving your car trackday hard, you'll never notice the lack of grip. The only downside, is the turn in response compared to the runflats is a bit more numb, but fine. I'd take them any day of the week for that trade off.

Rain grip is phenomenal. The day after I got them put on, it snowed. Snowed a good amount for Washington for the month after I put them on. If you know how to drive in snow half decently, they work great. I'm sure a dedicated snow tire would be better yes, but I got everywhere I needed without a single issue.

100% recommend for a daily driven car.

That's my .02 cents.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

The actual numbers would really only be meaningful if they were all tested under the same conditions.

The AS3 I find ride much harsher than the SS, the sidewalls feel stiffer. That also gives you slightly better turn in. The AS3 are also noticeably noisier and have a high frequency vibration. It is actually more like a road noise you can feel though the steering wheel. Hope that makes sense.

The SS have noticeably more grip.

I am actually shocked how well the SS grip in colder weather, even down to the freezing point. So much so, I have decided to stop using my AS3 intermediate (spring/fall) tires.

Were these AS3 or AS3+? I ask because my AS3+ are very quiet, do not vibrate and has very good grip. I don't think PSS grip but still better than most.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Were these AS3 or AS3+? I ask because my AS3+ are very quiet, do not vibrate and has very good grip. I don't think PSS grip but still better than most.

I have both, no difference between them.

[c1pher]

Hmmm, I'm not sure why I have quiet ones and you do not.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I am actually shocked how well the SS grip in colder weather, even down to the freezing point. So much so, I have decided to stop using my AS3 intermediate (spring/fall) tires.

I can believe you in complete dry, but the second you add a light frost on the road or moisture into the equation they're downright scary, from my own experience. I still leave them on until that first snow but I'm extra careful in the morning when the roads are damp

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Hmmm, I'm not sure why I have quiet ones and you do not.

I guess I notice it because I go between three sets of tires, so I am constantly going back and forth between them.