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      02-25-2011, 04:36 PM   #45
Dackelone
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Originally Posted by donovan View Post
Will the gas always say E10 underneath or somewhere near the pump so one doesnt accidentally pump that shit?

Yes, the pumps are clearly labeled at all German gas station.

You WANT SuperPlus 98.

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      02-27-2011, 09:07 AM   #46
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Interesting tidbit....

Was running out of gas in Mannheim and stopped at the nearest Esso....all pumps said Super or Super E10. Bummed out about the continued search for an Esso with Super Plus...I asked the ESSO tanker truck driver who just made a delivery where the nearest Esso with SuperPlus was at. He said here...the Super pumps actually had 98 octane SuperPlus...so I clarified with him 2-3 times that the Super pump was actually SuperPlus....so, since I was out of gas I filled up and no problems to note...hopefully this helps alleviate some anxiety.
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      02-27-2011, 10:27 AM   #47
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Thats what the sign says. I wonder why they had the super sign on it. Maybe they haven't had an oportunity to change it so they hung a sign. I wish the Esso outside the gate would get Super+ again, It's so much easier refueling off base, right outside the gate, than on. Of course getting anything done on Ramstein is like pulling teeth. I did find one Esso not too far off the beaten track, just have to detour off the autobahn a bit on the way home.
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      02-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #48
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Thanks for the update Rick. I think that must only be for your area Esso's bc I drove this weekend from BA to Koblenz and back... I bought gas at several Esso's - all of them have the three grades of Benzin properly marked: E10 Super - Super - and SuperPlus.

I think in a few years we might be in the situation that Italians are in! They only have two choices: Super Gas and Diesel!!! Last time I check Super was mid grade down there - but that was a few years back.

This is what the pumps at my Esso looks like in BA:




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      02-27-2011, 12:18 PM   #49
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Funny you say that FDM. Earlier today I was in K-town at the gas station on base (Ramstein) and asked the guy about the Superplus since I saw these stickers and was curious. Long story short, after 3 attempts trying to get an answer from the guy behind the counter regarding the gas I had to raise my voice and ask him if he was going to answer my question and stop avoiding me. He just looked at me with a puzzled look and said that he didn't know if it had ethanol or not.

These are the stickers on the pumps on Ramstein. Funny thing is that I did not see these stickers on the pumps on Vogelweg gas station. And rarely anybody fills up with the E10.



Read the small print......5% ethanol?????




German Esso station off Autobahn 6 heading to Nurnberg, Exit Crailsheim.





I asked the cashier if the Superplus was ethanol free and she said yes it was!!
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      02-27-2011, 12:28 PM   #50
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Hi Guys - when you are at a German gas station... just LOOK for those white round sticker/labels! That will tell you what you are buying/pumping!

In Rick's post/photos... the Super is indeed stated as 98 octane! So that is indeed SuperPlus!

Nick in your onbase photos... it looks as though what is "labeled" SuperPlus is just plain old Super gas - that can contain up too 5% ethanol. E05 if you will. Nein Danke for my car!

I think most onbase gas stations have no real idea what this new gas is. I know everytime I ask questions I get the run around. That is why I will always pump my gas off post at Esso. There I know what I am buying!


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      02-27-2011, 01:25 PM   #51
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I know. Luckily, it wasn't my 1er. I guess trips to the Amberg Esso station will be in order soon. I will also check the Esso in Weiden and post the address if it either has "clean" superplus or not.
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      02-28-2011, 02:52 AM   #52
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Elasbor, yeah those are the labels I was refering to. I wonder if you talked to the same person I did. I just think they're clueless about whats going on period. It's labeled 93/98 but with 5%. Probably something lost in translation making the labels....It wouldn't be an AAFES first.
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      03-02-2011, 06:56 AM   #53
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Well the on going saga continues. I was filling up yesterday on Ramstein and one of the other managers, the one I hadn't talked to already, was helping me. I ask off handily "so do all the grades incl 93/98 have eth now"? The answer I got was was yes all three grades have eth...E10 has 10% the other two have upto (not sure what this means) 5%.
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      03-02-2011, 11:43 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FDM68 View Post
Well the on going saga continues. I was filling up yesterday on Ramstein and one of the other managers, the one I hadn't talked to already, was helping me. I ask off handily "so do all the grades incl 93/98 have eth now"? The answer I got was was yes all three grades have eth...E10 has 10% the other two have upto (not sure what this means) 5%.

That is not true. E10 has 10%, Super has 5% and SuperPlus is straight gasoline (ie NO ethanol!). The problem is AAFES has done ZERO training when it comes to E10. Even their signs are missleading when they say: "IF you are unsure IF your car can use E10 use Super (5% ethanol) or SuperPlus".

The correct answer is IF you are unsure you should ONLY use SuperPlus. Because only SuperPlus is the old formulated high octane fuel. 100% benzin with NO ethanol!!!


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      03-02-2011, 12:09 PM   #55
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Over here in Vilseck the supervisor I spoke to a couple about 3 weeks ago about it told me the same thing, that there was 5% ethanol in the superplus also.

I really wish they would come out and exactly say what is in the tanks. The pumps here haven't even been updated with the new stickers and information.
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      03-02-2011, 12:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
Over here in Vilseck the supervisor I spoke to a couple about 3 weeks ago about it told me the same thing, that there was 5% ethanol in the superplus also.

I really wish they would come out and exactly say what is in the tanks. The pumps here haven't even been updated with the new stickers and information.

I do not think that is true - bc then we would see the SAME labels at the German gas stations. Remember the GErmans are anal-like when it comes to labels and informing the consuner.

I have heard AAFES managers say all sorts of things that make no sense to me on this E10 fuel. First they said that DPW (Dept of Public Works) wouldn't pay to clean the fuel tanks to carry SuperPlus. Then I reminded them that THEY HAD two different types of fuel in the tanks on base! Then they said it was the same at the German Esso. Not true! German Esso's (most of them) still offer THREE different types of fuel) gas.

Then I heard the reason why BA doesn't have any other fuels is bc the US Army knows they will close BA down and doesn't want to spend the money on cleaning and any new tank updates. I don't believe that either.

Then I keep hearing that in two years anyway SuperPlus will go away - everywhere. I will believe it when I see it!


ALL I know is I always pump gas off post. Always have always will. With AAFES it is always damage control. Never the truth. I would just like a straight answer from someone. Even how Starts and Stripes has remained silent on this is very telling of thier relationship with AAFES.


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      03-02-2011, 12:20 PM   #57
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Dack I tend to agree with your statement. I wouldn't think the 98/93 would have eth, the gas comes from esso and it's the same gas as off base. It's annoying, AAFES that is, that they're clueless.
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      03-02-2011, 03:37 PM   #58
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Definetly agree with both. That is why I am following Dack's lead to pump off post. I don't think AAFES really cares if the consumer knows what the true deal is about this crap.

Dack, I was talking with a german lady at work and she has been following the whole gas thing since the begining. She stated to me that come 2013, all they will offer is either E10 or Superplus. Super Unleaded and Super E5 will be gone by what has been said and signed into law when this fuel came out.

A funny thing though to note. On monday, I went to double check the Esso gas station on Vilseck and the diesel/Super unleaded pumps had red tags. I asked the cashier what was up and she told me they ran out over the weekend but funny thing was that Super E10 tank was 85% full. I saw how some cars came in and when they saw the tags, they left
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      03-04-2011, 11:14 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
A funny thing though to note. On monday, I went to double check the Esso gas station on Vilseck and the diesel/Super unleaded pumps had red tags. I asked the cashier what was up and she told me they ran out over the weekend but funny thing was that Super E10 tank was 85% full. I saw how some cars came in and when they saw the tags, they left
Hahaha Nick. Read about it here...

German's boycott on a new biofuel has prompted a run on traditional petroleum at Germany's gas stations.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14888883,00.html



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      03-04-2011, 12:27 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Hahaha Nick. Read about it here...

German's boycott on a new biofuel has prompted a run on traditional petroleum at Germany's gas stations.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14888883,00.html



Dackel


That is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!! Now hopefully they can get their heads out of their rear ends and come up with something better than E10
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      03-05-2011, 02:49 AM   #61
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Dack,

Went yesterday to fill up in Weiden and to my surprise, The Esso gas station there has all the regular fuels (Super, Super+, Diesel) without ANY ethanol percentages and speaking with the guy working there they are not getting it no time soon because they halted distribution of the fuel because of the uproar and misinformation from the German Government.

Also he showed me on the Bild newspaper yesterday that there was an article regarding stoppage of distribution of E10 fuel becuase the nationwide rejection of the fuel has now halted production and distribution of the fuel.
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      03-05-2011, 05:14 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
Dack,

Went yesterday to fill up in Weiden and to my surprise, The Esso gas station there has all the regular fuels (Super, Super+, Diesel) without ANY ethanol percentages and speaking with the guy working there they are not getting it no time soon because they halted distribution of the fuel because of the uproar and misinformation from the German Government.

Also he showed me on the Bild newspaper yesterday that there was an article regarding stoppage of distribution of E10 fuel becuase the nationwide rejection of the fuel has now halted production and distribution of the fuel.

Maybe that is why the Esso in Ingolstadt (when I drove down to Munich) had all the old fuels.

I saw on German Tv that this whole Bio fuel E10 thing has been a misserable flop - and only the Bundes is to blame. They were showing how a lot of gas stations had been runing out of SuperPlus fuel while they had plenty of E10! lol The stations had to have special delivers of SuperPlus - entire truckloads worth of SuperPlus! No German wanted to pump that crap E10 gas. Only us dumb Americans (I guess) bought into this E10 thing. Well.. some of us. lol

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      03-06-2011, 01:16 PM   #63
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Latest and greatest from the German TV (SAT 1) just now. Reports on tv,(my wife literally screamed at me to come to the TV) are now coming out that independent testing showed that vehicles that use E10 fuel WILL need more frequent oil changes due to the thickness of the ethanol content may leak during the combustion cycle(I think) into the oil. This in turn damages the oiland causes the oil to break down quicker.

Also, A BMW representative came out and when asked about the E10 gas stated that it is crap. Later, another rep came out and said that no, it is good gas. WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!

Also there is supposed to be a meeting by the Bundes to try and clear the mess they have created with the E10 failure.

Stay tuned...........
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      03-07-2011, 03:23 AM   #64
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^^Yup Nick. I just saw that too on Tv. Looks like BMW is changing their position on using E10. Now they are saying IF you decide to use E10 it will cause more internal engine wear. Now they want you to change the oil (OCI) more frequently - dues to fuel diliution. Yesterday I saw on one Tv report that BMW was saying only 2008 model year cars and up - may use E10. That is different that their previous position of 2000 M.Y. and up. (see BMW AG document I posted before)

This week should be interesting bc the heat is being turned up on these German Bundes ministers. Raus mit them!
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      03-07-2011, 04:53 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
^^Yup Nick. I just saw that too on Tv. Looks like BMW is changing their position on using E10. Now they are saying IF you decide to use E10 it will cause more internal engine wear. Now they want you to change the oil (OCI) more frequently - dues to fuel diliution. Yesterday I saw on one Tv report that BMW was saying only 2008 model year cars and up - may use E10. That is different that their previous position of 2000 M.Y. and up. (see BMW AG document I posted before)

This week should be interesting bc the heat is being turned up on these German Bundes ministers. Raus mit them!
WOW!!!! that is a BIIIIG reversal for them. I had also spoken to the Safety Officer here where I work and he also told me about the oil thing......AND, about a report that BMW had made statements that the E10 fuel can cause damage to some of their Aluminum based engines.

That is scary because if more car manufacturers come out and say that their cars cannot support the fuel based on a model year around 2007-2008 and above, there will really be a big stink.
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      03-07-2011, 05:23 AM   #66
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Not in the loop with German news/TV. Very interested so please keep me posted.
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