Tyres - Thoughts on replacing Michelin PSS

[froop]

Originally Posted by Alext

Just as a reference point I have used R compounds on a DD and they only lasted around 4500km. Toyo RA1 there were and an awesome tyre. The amount of confidence they inspired was sensational....very, very high grip. Gave new meaning to cornering on rails.

Also they helped to prevent tailgaters...due to their soft nature, they picked up every single rock on the road when warm!!

4500ks hmmm. That's good to know.

How's your street driving style? Quite aggressive or quite tame? Also, did you do any track days on them at all?

[froop]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

NT01's is not designed for wet roads period. They will aquaplane on standing water.

They will also exceed their heat-cycles too as a DD. Exposed to the street daily they will also pick up cuts in the rubber very easily due to soft compound.

Is this from your experience in using NT01s in the wet and/or for daily driving?

From reading user reviews of the tyre they are quite good in wet weather. Comparatively of course.

They are also designed to withstand repetitive heat cycling unlike other R compounds.

Also, quite sure that normal daily driving doesn't bring the tyres up to normal track operating temperatures.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

No, only seen on a Cayman-R at the track. Looked great!

Just not sure why you'd buy a R comp tyre for road use . They are designed to work on track with heat in them, not the street. Anyhow, let us know how they perform

Yeah I get what you're saying. I guess I only have 1 set of wheels and whilst I'm not willing to fork out for another set with R comps I'd still like to try some to see how it goes. I'm happy to be a guinea pig. If they turn out to be unbearably bad for the street I'll grab some R-S3s next time round.

[saurabh_turingMS]

I bought a set of Conti SC 5P in 20s, and both ride and grip seemed to improve over PS2 - it really surprised me. Much easier tyre to live with day to day, but I'd still keep my track wheels & tyres for any track work.

[Alext]

My driving style was mildly aggressive. It was a fairly lightweight car (turbocharged MX5). Did a few hillclimbs but no track days. If you looked behind you could actually see the tires leaving black trails on hard straightline acceleration from 60-100km/h on warm tarmac! I think the treadwear rating on the was just 80. But don't forget R compounds drastically improve your braking too...well worth it if you can put up changing tires often!

[sparoz]

PSS is the best compromised tyre for the street at the moment if you don't mind paying, and its wet performance is just brilliant.

DD won't heat cycle your tyres unless you are a maniac on the road as you won't generate enough heat.

Depending on the track tyre, some you will get 90% grip cold. Especially the ones designed for timeattacks - they work on optimal pressure.

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by sparoz

PSS is the best compromised tyre for the street at the moment if you don't mind paying, and its wet performance is just brilliant.

DD won't heat cycle your tyres unless you are a maniac on the road as you won't generate enough heat.

Depending on the track tyre, some you will get 90% grip cold. Especially the ones designed for timeattacks - they work on optimal pressure.

Welcome back, Sparoz
Would you mind providing an update on your Trofeo R?

Agree that unless one is a maniac on public roads, it is not possible to achieve high tyre temperatures. For example, our data (probe pyrometer) suggests 60-90oC for TD221/V710/PSC+. This compares to 10-15oC above ambient for PSS/R-S3 on public roads.

Not sure if PSS is any better or worse, since I just do as Master Evans tells me. But in the deep of winter, when there are puddles and limited visibility, and everyone is (justifiably) scared to leave their garages or pit lane ... we strip off our competition tyres, re-fit street tyres, and wish our loved ones well before hitting 6000rpm.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by timbo_3101

Welcome back, Sparoz
Would you mind providing an update on your Trofeo R?

Agree that unless one is a maniac on public roads, it is not possible to achieve high tyre temperatures. For example, our data (probe pyrometer) suggests 60-90oC for TD221/V710/PSC+. This compares to 10-15oC above ambient on PSS/R-S3 on public roads.

Not sure if PSS is any better or worse, since I just do as Master Evans tells me. But in the deep of winter, when there are puddles and limited visibility, and everyone is (justifiably) scared to leave their garages or pit lane ... we strip off our competition tyres, re-fit street tyres, and wish our loved ones well.

As a road tyre? It has better grip than the PSS by miles even when cold. I have done 10k on the road (more like my dad) with them and there are still plenty of thread left - I actually think it is a great way to scrub the tyres. The soft compound is a bit annoying which picks up all the debris on the road, but you sort of get used to it. In the wet, all nannies need to be on, but surprisingly, the grip is there if you don't drive like a maniac.

Originally Posted by Ian///M

That's why running R specs on the street is a waste of time as they don't get up to temp and will have worse performance than something like PSS when cold. Extreme performance category is the way to go IMO, like RE-11, RS3, NT05 etc.

I am just lazy and don't want to change wheels before a track day. .

[Giveway74]

Wearing through a set of Semi's in 4500KM a few times in a year could surly justify paying for a set of track wheels and tyres depending on how much DD your doing. I've done 6 trackdays on my Hankook Z221's and they still have decent life left in them. Should get another 4 days at least out of them. If i used them as a daily with a track alignment and camber they would last nowhere near as long as the inside edge would wear out.

Also with a decent trolley jack and and a battery powered impact gun, changing wheels at the track or before a track day is a 10min exercise at the most for me. It will be quicker once i get the wheel studs.

One of the benefits on the 130i hatch is i can fit 4 wheels, a trolley jack and a large box full of stuff in the back of it for trackdays.

The only shit thing is changing them at the end of the day when the wheels are still almost too hot to touch with gloves on and putting 4 hot wheels in the back of the car just kills the cold air coming out of the AC.

[135]

Originally Posted by 135

A tyre store told me that, even though the Nitto NT01 is DOT-compliant in the USA, in Australia it is for track only. The Nitto NT05 is streetable. Nitto also have drag radials - if that was the particular type of track tyre you were after.

Notice how the US website mentions DOT-compliant while the Australian Distributor conveniently leaves that part out. I also have the Australian Nitto catalogue, which omits any reference to DOT-compliance.

Not to mention, I'm not too sure how well the NT01 would hold up in a wet road scenario - you might aquaplane all over the place

On the other hand, if it is for track use only then

Originally Posted by froop

I spoke to Taleb tyres here in Sydney and they were very helpful. I was quoted $1200 fitted and balanced for NT01s in 235/40/18 and 275/35/18. I asked him how they were on the street and he said they were fine but due to the soft R compound would wear faster and was unable to say roughly how many kms they would last. He did mention that they were definitely street legal. Of course he could be wrong, but then again he could be right. He recommend NT05s if I was going to mainly be street driving the tyres due to their harder compound. For me though, it's either NT01s or R-S3s and I'm happy to be a guinea pig and try some NT01s for street/track.

Just in case you wanted an update, I went back last Friday to check about the NT01 tyres. They called the Nitto Australia importer/distributor to ask why the NT01 is DOT-approved in the USA but not here. The answer was the tyres are exactly the same but the NT01 does not have a load or speed rating which is required for Australian standards to be approved for street use.

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by sparoz

I have done 10k on the road

Haha, impressive. At the risk of angering all the Boxster and GT3 racers, I have to refrain from passing judgement!

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

Wearing through a set of Semi's in 4500KM a few times in a year could surly justify paying for a set of track wheels and tyres depending on how much DD your doing. I've done 6 trackdays on my Hankook Z221's and they still have decent life left in them. Should get another 4 days at least out of them. If i used them as a daily with a track alignment and camber they would last nowhere near as long as the inside edge would wear out.

Also with a decent trolley jack and and a battery powered impact gun, changing wheels at the track or before a track day is a 10min exercise at the most for me. It will be quicker once i get the wheel studs.

One of the benefits on the 130i hatch is i can fit 4 wheels, a trolley jack and a large box full of stuff in the back of it for trackdays.

The only shit thing is changing them at the end of the day when the wheels are still almost too hot to touch with gloves on and putting 4 hot wheels in the back of the car just kills the cold air coming out of the AC.

Definitely a plus to have another set of wheels - for example I won't be stranded at the track after the blow out I had after my little excursion.

[PeteA]

I'm using RS3s on my daily driver. 235/40/18 front 265/35/18 rear. Feel fantastic. Shitloads of grip for the road in the dry even when cold. When rain is forcast i just take the shitbox haha. RS3s work fine in the wet if you drive sensibly and on a track won't melt like PSS.

[froop]

Originally Posted by 135

Just in case you wanted an update, I went back last Friday to check about the NT01 tyres. They called the Nitto Australia importer/distributor to ask why the NT01 is DOT-approved in the USA but not here. The answer was the tyres are exactly the same but the NT01 does not have a load or speed rating which is required for Australian standards to be approved for street use.

Good info.

Guess I might reconsider NT01s at this point then and maybe go with some RS-3s

[ItsHectic]

Originally Posted by ExREX

What is the going rate for PSS these days? I am about to call Jax in Artarmon.

Are people going with 215/40/18 and 245/35/18 or slightly wider on stock rims?

I got qouted just under $1200US delivered from tyre rack.
And got quoted $1700AU locally.

225/40ZR-18

255/35ZR-18

[Nugget]

$1200 including import duty and GST?

[PeteA]

I picked up RS3's 235 / 265 for sub 1200 fitted with valve stems :P PSS are $$$ if the sized no available in Aus.

[ItsHectic]

Originally Posted by Nugget

$1200 including import duty and GST?

Nope, did not think of that. Got no idea how much import duty would come to. I guess tempe is the cheapest then.

[135]

Originally Posted by PeteA

I'm using RS3s on my daily driver. 235/40/18 front 265/35/18 rear. Feel fantastic. Shitloads of grip for the road in the dry even when cold. When rain is forcast i just take the shitbox haha. RS3s work fine in the wet if you drive sensibly and on a track won't melt like PSS.

I thought you had 19s on your 135i.

[PeteA]

Originally Posted by 135

I thought you had 19s on your 135i.

Have two sets of wheels currently.

[135]

Originally Posted by PeteA

Have two sets of wheels currently.

What width/offset are your 18s and how much clearance do you have on the inside to your Ohlins and outside to the guard?
Do you know if the RS3 runs wider than their size and if they have rounded or square shoulders?
Have you been able to compare them to any other tyres in that category?

[PeteA]

Originally Posted by 135

What width/offset are your 18s and how much clearance do you have on the inside to your Ohlins and outside to the guard?
Do you know if the RS3 runs wider than their size and if they have rounded or square shoulders?
Have you been able to compare them to any other tyres in that category?

Check out my build thread and all your questions will be answered.

But, to be short:
1. About 3.5mm inside, bit more outside.
2. Yes
3. Square
4. No, not against other extreme performance tyres