WTF some1 please explain this to me

Ash83 · 04-14-2010, 02:24 PM

Last week during my trip to Germany, My friend and I spent 2 hours on Nurburgring on the day before I flew back

He had a 4 laps pass that will expire this April so we decided to put two bimmers to the the test. (09 E82 135i His car and 09 E92 335i His Brother's car)

Both cars have around 15K Km (9K miles) and they are stock running a Non RFT tires (Pirellis)

we did a lap on every car and frankly we were expecting the 135i to be better than the 335i because it has the same engine on a smaller car but it was not the case..

On the 335i I was taking the corners easily and i felt more in control. on the 135 it was more difficult..

after the 4 laps i was completely shocked about the 135 and I told my friend who said he felt the same I will buy two more passes and I will take the cars to the "Nurburgring: GP (3.7 km)" and I will time both of them.

I started with 335i and I did ~1:57
on the 135 I got ~2:01!!!!!!

I checked online and I saw that on GP the fastest 335 time was faster than the fastest 135 time by 3 seconds.

Mark M · 04-14-2010, 02:29 PM

Possibly due to wider track on the 3 and longer wheelbase.

My biggest complaint about the 1 is that on the edge it feels VERY skitish. Going thorugh corners on the edge of adhesion just feels like the back end wants to step out at any moment.

My e30 M3 and e36 M3s were never like this.

Dunno if it is the soft suspension bushings in the 1, the RFTs, or the lack of LSD. (I am running KW coilovers)

Ash83 · 04-14-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark M

My biggest complaint about the 1 is that on the edge it feels VERY skitish. Going thorugh corners on the edge of adhesion just feels like the back end wants to step out at any moment.

This is exactly what i felt..

Sylon · 04-14-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark M

Possibly due to wider track on the 3 and longer wheelbase.

My biggest complaint about the 1 is that on the edge it feels VERY skitish. Going thorugh corners on the edge of adhesion just feels like the back end wants to step out at any moment.

My e30 M3 and e36 M3s were never like this.

Dunno if it is the soft suspension bushings in the 1, the RFTs, or the lack of LSD. (I am running KW coilovers)

I read in an article that BMW purposely made the 1 series understeer. They felt that because the car was going to be considered "entry-level", they feared that the 1-series would be the first RWD car for most of their buyers. They didnt want people wrapping them around trees because the drivers thought their car was a "real M3" or something because it was focused at a younger crowd.

It would suck if that was true, but it seemed like that was the case. I think I read it on AutoBlog or Edmunds several months ago.

tgxmike · 04-14-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark M

Possibly due to wider track on the 3 and longer wheelbase.

My biggest complaint about the 1 is that on the edge it feels VERY skitish. Going thorugh corners on the edge of adhesion just feels like the back end wants to step out at any moment.

My e30 M3 and e36 M3s were never like this.

Dunno if it is the soft suspension bushings in the 1, the RFTs, or the lack of LSD. (I am running KW coilovers)

I used to feel like the back was going to go out, but after changing to real tires that feeling was much reduced. When the back does give way now with the non-RTF it is much more predictable, controlled and recoverable. The RTF were just terrible. Suspension upgrade is next...

JimD · 04-14-2010, 03:51 PM

It's probably mostly handling but the drag coefficient is worst on the 135, it may make some difference. The BMWUSA does not seem to list the 135 couple coefficient any more but the convertible is .34 versus .30 for the 335 couple. The weight of a 135 couple is only 187 lbs less than a 335 couple (both with manual transmissions). So even though the 135 is smaller, it doesn't weight a lot less and it has a higher coefficient of drag.

.4 seconds out of 2 minutes does not seem like a huge difference to me. But I would also think with the same power a smaller car would be faster. And it is rated quicker 0-60 (5.1 versus 5.3 seconds).

nszzya · 04-14-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgxmike

Suspension upgrade is next...

What are you planning specifically?

rsjean · 04-14-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylon

I read in an article that BMW purposely made the 1 series understeer. They felt that because the car was going to be considered "entry-level", they feared that the 1-series would be the first RWD car for most of their buyers. They didnt want people wrapping them around trees because the drivers thought their car was a "real M3" or something because it was focused at a younger crowd.

It would suck if that was true, but it seemed like that was the case. I think I read it on AutoBlog or Edmunds several months ago.

I believe they build understeer into all their cars. It's a safety margin. Can't speak to the ///M's though as I've never had the priviledge....

My135 · 04-14-2010, 05:09 PM

Since the 335 has a wider front track which will make it corners better.

Sylon · 04-14-2010, 05:17 PM

If it makes you feel better,

The 135i was faster than a 335i around a track, but did lose to an ///M by a .10, I would say thats pretty damn good.

Ash83 · 04-14-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylon

If it makes you feel better,

The 135i was faster than a 335i around a track, but did lose to an ///M by a .10, I would say thats pretty damn good.

ianc · 04-15-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

The BMWUSA does not seem to list the 135 couple coefficient any more but the convertible is .34 versus .30 for the 335 couple

Dude, it's COUPE. Ha, I thought you were describing some weird sexual measurement there for a second. Please excuse my analosity.

Anyway, it's certainly the handling. The 135 is floaty, bouncy and unpredictable stock. How you gonna drive that fast?

ianc

JimD · 04-15-2010, 07:32 AM

Analosity excused. I admit I can't spell. It seems common for us engineers.

Jim

BrokenVert · 04-15-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimD

Analosity excused. I admit I can't spell. It seems common for us engineers.

Jim

Is this the part where I say it's ok, because us engineers speak the language of math fluently?

And CD only makes a difference at higher speeds. On a normal road course suspension makes or breaks a car. And it breaks a 135i

arrutled · 04-15-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimD

Analosity excused. I admit I can't spell. It seems common for us engineers.

Jim

lol that and penmanship, lol.

HachiNi · 04-16-2010, 07:03 PM

longer wheelbase.

radiantm3 · 04-16-2010, 07:12 PM

I've said this in the past. My stock E90 sedan (with sports package and runflats) feels so much more composed in the corners than my 1er with dunlop direzza star specs and bmw performance suspension. Not as fun to drive, but I'm way more confident taking a corner at higher speeds in the 3 series.

RPM90 · 04-16-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash83

Last week during my trip to Germany, My friend and I spent 2 hours on Nurburgring on the day before I flew back

He had a 4 laps pass that will expire this April so we decided to put two bimmers to the the test. (09 E82 135i His car and 09 E92 335i His Brother's car)

Both cars have around 15K Km (9K miles) and they are stock running a Non RFT tires (Pirellis)

we did a lap on every car and frankly we were expecting the 135i to be better than the 335i because it has the same engine on a smaller car but it was not the case..

On the 335i I was taking the corners easily and i felt more in control. on the 135 it was more difficult..

after the 4 laps i was completely shocked about the 135 and I told my friend who said he felt the same I will buy two more passes and I will take the cars to the "Nurburgring: GP (3.7 km)" and I will time both of them.

I started with 335i and I did ~1:57
on the 135 I got ~2:01!!!!!!

I checked online and I saw that on GP the fastest 335 time was faster than the fastest 135 time by 3 seconds.

It's a common lust induced misconception that the 135i is faster all around than the 335i.
Yes, in a straight line the 135i out accels it's larger brother, but in the real world of handling, power to weight can be outclassed by a better suspension. The 1 really does lack the mythic magical sport suspension tuning of the 3 sedan and coupe.
That is the only thing, a big thing, I miss about a 3 series.

After having my 135i for 10 months, if I were shopping today, I would probably go for the 335i, due to the better suspension and overall confidence in better handling. Unless of course, the N55 has been tweaked in the suspension department?
I've tried to find out if it has, but I think that no info on that means that BMW didn't take the oppor-tune-ity

to fix this glaring issue.

I've got 2 more years with my 135i, so BMW, you've got a bit of time to correct this!

RPM90 · 04-17-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvaccaro

Just wait 1 year and get an M1

We'll see. I hope it's done right and BMW doesn't get crazy with the pricing.
After all, I like the 135i and I for one think it's got plenty of power.
It's just a suspension tweak, and a solid HPFP

, away from being great as it is, and at it's price. Just FIX the suspension.

If the pricing is too silly, the new S4 really shines.
BMW...get to work!

Ash83 · 04-18-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM90

If the pricing is too silly, the new S4 really shines.
BMW...get to work!

I will never switch to the dark side.....

Garduna · 04-18-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash83

I will never switch to the dark side.....

lol darkside my butt. It's simply another alternative

RPM90 · 04-18-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garduna

lol darkside my butt. It's simply another alternative

Exactly.
Audi makes fine automobiles.
The new S4 is quite outstanding and has beaten the 335i even in performance areas.

BTW, no, the M3 is not the S4 competitor, check the pricing.

Audi's 1 series competitor the A3, however, is no match for the 135i, unless they were to bring the S3, then maybe, maybe.

04-14-2010, 02:24 PM	#1
Ash83 Major 41 Rep 1,177 Posts Drives: 135i & RS5 (SOLD)/ 18 CTS-V Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (1)	WTF some1 please explain this to me Last week during my trip to Germany, My friend and I spent 2 hours on Nurburgring on the day before I flew back He had a 4 laps pass that will expire this April so we decided to put two bimmers to the the test. (09 E82 135i His car and 09 E92 335i His Brother's car) Both cars have around 15K Km (9K miles) and they are stock running a Non RFT tires (Pirellis) we did a lap on every car and frankly we were expecting the 135i to be better than the 335i because it has the same engine on a smaller car but it was not the case.. On the 335i I was taking the corners easily and i felt more in control. on the 135 it was more difficult.. after the 4 laps i was completely shocked about the 135 and I told my friend who said he felt the same I will buy two more passes and I will take the cars to the "Nurburgring: GP (3.7 km)" and I will time both of them. I started with 335i and I did ~1:57 on the 135 I got ~2:01!!!!!! I checked online and I saw that on GP the fastest 335 time was faster than the fastest 135 time by 3 seconds. __________________ Alpine White, Coral RED , Glacier Silver Aluminum trim, M sport, 6MT, NAV, HiFi, USB-iPod, Bluetooth Performance: JB4\|BMW PE\|DP Cosmetics: BMW Sport Pedals\|Black Kidney Grill
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04-14-2010, 02:29 PM	#2
Mark M Major 240 Rep 1,288 Posts Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA iTrader: (0)	Possibly due to wider track on the 3 and longer wheelbase. My biggest complaint about the 1 is that on the edge it feels VERY skitish. Going thorugh corners on the edge of adhesion just feels like the back end wants to step out at any moment. My e30 M3 and e36 M3s were never like this. Dunno if it is the soft suspension bushings in the 1, the RFTs, or the lack of LSD. (I am running KW coilovers)
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04-14-2010, 03:51 PM	#6
JimD Brigadier General 368 Rep 3,547 Posts Drives: 128i convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lexington, SC iTrader: (0)	It's probably mostly handling but the drag coefficient is worst on the 135, it may make some difference. The BMWUSA does not seem to list the 135 couple coefficient any more but the convertible is .34 versus .30 for the 335 couple. The weight of a 135 couple is only 187 lbs less than a 335 couple (both with manual transmissions). So even though the 135 is smaller, it doesn't weight a lot less and it has a higher coefficient of drag. .4 seconds out of 2 minutes does not seem like a huge difference to me. But I would also think with the same power a smaller car would be faster. And it is rated quicker 0-60 (5.1 versus 5.3 seconds). __________________ 128i Convertible, MT, Alpine White, Black Top, Taupe Leatherette, Walnut, Sport Ordered 5/22/09, Completed 6/4/09, At Port 6/9/09, On the Georgia Highway 6/13/09, Ship Arrived Charleston 6/24/09 at 10pm, PCD 7/21/09
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04-14-2010, 05:09 PM	#9
My135 Lieutenant Colonel 85 Rep 1,609 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	Since the 335 has a wider front track which will make it corners better. __________________ 7/08 135 Coupe, Crimson Red, 6 SP, Sport, Taupe Lette/Aluminum. Performance Mods: JB4 on Map 5, BMS DP Fix V3, Injen polished intake, AR Catless DP, Maddad resonated mid-pipes, aFe exhaust polished tips, ST Suspension Coil Over and Hotchkis front sway bar. Others: BMS OCC, BT Scanner, Mud Flap. Next Mods: AA Front Strut Brace.
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04-14-2010, 05:17 PM	#10
Sylon Brigadier General 189 Rep 3,435 Posts Drives: 2011 135i, SG/CR, 6MT, M-Sport Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Michigan / Ohio iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 135i [9.20]	If it makes you feel better, The 135i was faster than a 335i around a track, but did lose to an ///M by a .10, I would say thats pretty damn good.
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04-15-2010, 07:32 AM	#13
JimD Brigadier General 368 Rep 3,547 Posts Drives: 128i convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lexington, SC iTrader: (0)	Analosity excused. I admit I can't spell. It seems common for us engineers. Jim __________________ 128i Convertible, MT, Alpine White, Black Top, Taupe Leatherette, Walnut, Sport Ordered 5/22/09, Completed 6/4/09, At Port 6/9/09, On the Georgia Highway 6/13/09, Ship Arrived Charleston 6/24/09 at 10pm, PCD 7/21/09
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04-16-2010, 07:03 PM	#16
HachiNi my other car is a hachiroku 31 Rep 168 Posts Drives: 135i AW Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	longer wheelbase. __________________ 85 AE86 09 E82
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04-16-2010, 07:12 PM	#17
radiantm3 Apex Everything! 976 Rep 4,378 Posts Drives: 2007 Honda S2000, 2017 GT350 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cedar Park, TX iTrader: (6) Garage List 2011 E92 M3 [9.35] 2014 BMW i3 [10.00]	I've said this in the past. My stock E90 sedan (with sports package and runflats) feels so much more composed in the corners than my 1er with dunlop direzza star specs and bmw performance suspension. Not as fun to drive, but I'm way more confident taking a corner at higher speeds in the 3 series. __________________ 2011 E92 M3(Sold). 2007 Honda S2000 (Track Car). 2016 Cayman GT4 (Sold). 2017 Shelby GT350 (AKA Crowd Killer). My pet project: https://stickershift.com
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