RB Classics results (Teaser Results)

[martymil]

Nah wasn't wet but the moisture was starting to set in and traction was becoming non existent

[135]

Originally Posted by martymil

The ambient temps where very high, meth would have helped.
...

Hey martymil, you might have missed it but I'd be interested in your reply and any other comments you have to my questions on your post

[martymil]

Originally Posted by 135

I believe it's a srt8shot ECA display.


Why do you need to see or log both meth and ethanol content in the JB4 mobile app?
The ethanol content will only change after each fill, after the new and old fuel have had a short time to mix, and then remain the same until the next fill - with the caveat that the fuel doesn't sit in the car for excessively long periods which might degrade the fuel quality / ethanol content.

Can't you just use the Bluetooth version of the Fuel-It ECA and the separate Fuel-It Ethanol Content app to get the E% and then load the appropriate tune (or make the necessary adjustments to your tune) and then notate the E% on your log comments or support requests?

According to Steve (Fuel-It) in February, JB4 doesn't auto-tune based on the measured E% itself (although it can auto-tune based on side-effects of differing ethanol content), therefore, feeding the E% value into the JB4 is of no real value.





Back in November, Steve mentioned some other integration options but I don't know what they are or when they'll be released (I haven't seen any recent ground-breaking announcements regarding this).

First of all I will never run meth on my car period

Seen to many engine failures and the only thing in common is meth

The problem with the jb4 meth integration it's very crude And if the injector cuts
out and the meth keeps flowing you will get an extreme lean and a piston
meltdown

This is the only common thing these failures have in common

It might not be but no way of telling for sure

I want to keep my ethanol on the jb4 when the auto tune takes use of it eventually that's what's coming as far as I know

[martymil]

Sorry guys these are classics with cartridge upgrades

I thought they where next gens

Anyhow even a more impressive result then

[135]

Originally Posted by martymil

First of all I will never run meth on my car period

Seen to many engine failures and the only thing in common is meth

The problem with the jb4 meth integration it's very crude And if the injector cuts
out and the meth keeps flowing you will get an extreme lean and a piston
meltdown

This is the only common thing these failures have in common

It might not be but no way of telling for sure

I want to keep my ethanol on the jb4 when the auto tune takes use of it eventually that's what's coming as far as I know

Even if all the engine failures were running meth, could the common cause have been too high boost or bad tuning and not meth?


By all of these comments, I thought you did, or were going to, run meth.

Originally Posted by martymil

The ambient temps where very high, meth would have helped.

But I rather tune the car in extreme conditions and later add meth for safety.

I don't want to rely on meth for cooling.

The problem with meth is when controlled by the jb4 I can't use the ethanol sensor in the jb4 mobile app.

So its either nls or stage 3 lpfp and its either meth or ethanol sensor.

But then I just saw this post if yours.

Originally Posted by martymil

that's why most people run meth on these cars. I don't.

I've been hoping for full auto-tuning for varying ethanol content (true flex fuel) - if that's what's coming then that'll be great!

Originally Posted by dh58

The prob with using meth is if you're also using e85 it becomes very corrosive or something like that?

Originally Posted by martymil

It is actually corrosive to alloy and when using pi it can cause problems over a long period of time, that's why they don't recommend it.

It can eat away at the injector tips of your pi system, if you haven't got pi then you have no issues.

Do you think meth would also eat away at the nozzle of a Fuel-It TBI?

[martymil]

As far as I seen there hasn't been any benefit from running e85 and meth except for lower temps

I was going to and was almost convinced too.

All the cars where running properly, so could not be tune or too higher boost.

The problem with meth is if an injector shuts off for what ever reason doesn't matter, and the meth is still flowing under WOT bye bye piston.

That's my conclusion, everybody has one on this matter this is mine.

If someone wants to run it, go for it. Don't come back crying lol.

I'm waiting on the new pi controller, its on its way to me now for testing.

I think that's the final piece to the puzzle before something new comes out.

Speculation only

So i'm leaving my ethanol analyser on the jb4 for this reason, and when full
pi automation comes out for e85 it will be a very welcome feature.

Until then we just sit and wait for terry to work his magic.

The syvecs is around the corner too but they are still waiting on some modules to get finished to suit the n54 and guess some more testing.

Cant see it being released for a little while longer.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by martymil

The problem with meth is if an injector shuts off for what ever reason doesn't matter, and the meth is still flowing under WOT bye bye piston.

I don't like meth either and agree it's no advantage with E85 and PI but doesn't the same risk you mention apply except even worse, with port injection?

[martymil]

No because E85 combusts at a lower temp then meth

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by martymil

No because E85 combusts at a lower temp then meth

I thought Methanol and Ethanol are pretty similar with Methanol being the cooler of the two. Generally speaking, PI is going to be flowing more fuel than meth, being more dangerous if the DI fuel is cut. (A 30:1 AFR is too lean to hurt anything because it's effectively air cooled but a 16:1 AFR is deadly). Only a Syvecs will allow PI to be guaranteed to shut off every time the DI fuel is cut.

[martymil]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I thought Methanol and Ethanol are pretty similar with Methanol being the cooler of the two. Generally speaking, PI is going to be flowing more fuel than meth, being more dangerous if the DI fuel is cut. (A 30:1 AFR is too lean to hurt anything because it's effectively air cooled but a 16:1 AFR is deadly). Only a Syvecs will allow PI to be guaranteed to shut off every time the DI fuel is cut.

Yes that's the issue I'm getting right now, ignition is cut but pi flows for a split second causing a backfire on gear change.
But it doesn't cause a lean condition as it burns of real quick but I guess it could if the right conditions where met.

I don't know the whole science behind it but that's why people run 50/50 water/meth

Running 50/50 has 90% of the benefits but not the drawbacks but also real bad for o2 sensors.

That's why some people run high concentration of meth on our cars but a lean condition with 100% meth will turn ugly real fast and cause a melted piston

I wouldn't say 16:1 afr is deadly as that's what our cars run standard down low to spool the turbos from the factory

But running 20:1 afr up top is deadly and that's what happens with meth and leaner but our sensors max out at 20:1

Now imagine when port injection is flowing you get a throttle closure and the petrol is practically burned off real quick

But when running meth you fill your whole charge pipe and manifold and as far as the first meth nozzle full of meth.

Now meth Autoignites at 470 c and when it hits a extremely hot cylinder it doesn't need a spark to ignite.

So it keeps burning until the fuel runs out causing a big run on basically all on its own
and when you keep feeding meth to the cylinder that's shut down it gets really hot real fast.

It pretty much happens on cyl 5 on our cars because its the hottest cylinder.

That's my understanding.

I'm not good at explaining this kind of stuff but its all learned from experience

[135]

Originally Posted by martymil

As far as I seen there hasn't been any benefit from running e85 and meth except for lower temps
...

The problem with meth is if an injector shuts off for what ever reason doesn't matter, and the meth is still flowing under WOT bye bye piston.
...

I'm waiting on the new pi controller, its on its way to me now for testing.
...

So i'm leaving my ethanol analyser on the jb4 for this reason, and when full
pi automation comes out for e85 it will be a very welcome feature.

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I thought Methanol and Ethanol are pretty similar with Methanol being the cooler of the two. Generally speaking, PI is going to be flowing more fuel than meth, being more dangerous if the DI fuel is cut. (A 30:1 AFR is too lean to hurt anything because it's effectively air cooled but a 16:1 AFR is deadly). Only a Syvecs will allow PI to be guaranteed to shut off every time the DI fuel is cut.

Originally Posted by martymil

Yes that's the issue I'm getting right now, ignition is cut but pi flows for a split second causing a backfire on gear change.
But it doesn't cause a lean condition as it burns of real quick but I guess it could if the right conditions where met.

I don't know the whole science behind it but That's why people run 50/50 water/meth

Running 50/50 has 90% of the benefits but not the drawbacks but also real bad for o2 sensors.

That's why some people run high concentration of meth on our cars but a lean condition with 100% meth will turn ugly real fast and cause a melted piston

I wouldn't say 16:1 afr is deadly as that's what our cars run standard down low to spool the turbos from the factory

But running 20:1 afr up top is deadly and that's what happens with meth and leaner but our sensors max out at 20:1

Now imagine when port injection is flowing you get a throttle closure and the petrol is practically burned off real quick

But when running meth you fill your whole charge pipe and manifold and as far as the first meth nozzle full of meth.

Now meth Autoignites at 470 c and when it hits a extremely hot cylinder it doesn't need a spark to ignite.

So it keeps burning until the fuel runs out causing a big run on basically all on its own and when you keep feeding meth to the cylinder that's shut down it gets really hot real fast.

It pretty much happens on cyl 5 on our cars because its the hottest cylinder.

That's my understanding.

I'm not good at explaining this kind of stuff but its all learned from experience

I don't use meth either but still find this interesting.

Instead of meth (100% or 50/50), could 100% water be used (similar to the M4 GTS) but injected in the CP?
Would 100% water still provide the cooling properties that people want but without the drawbacks of meth?
Could water be atomised properly through a meth nozzle?

[martymil]

Yes you can use demineralised water, the problem is it destroys o2 sensors rather quickly

Maybe if some company made a better sensor for our cars, who knows

[135]

I saw you mentioned that problem when adding water to the meth - no doubt it would be even more of an issue with straight water.
Why is that not a problem for the M4 GTS? Or does the M4 have that better sensor?

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by martymil

I wish someone came up with a bigger injector pump and it would solve our problems

Wouldn't care if it cost 5k as long as it could keep up

Originally Posted by martymil

Yes you can use demineralised water, the problem is it destroys o2 sensors rather quickly

Maybe if some company made a better sensor for our cars, who knows

Like these?
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38355

[martymil]

Yes they are more heat resistant don't know about water

Atm they are only available for single turbo applications

[martymil]

Originally Posted by 135

I saw you mentioned that problem when adding water to the meth - no doubt it would be even more of an issue with straight water.
Why is that not a problem for the M4 GTS? Or does the M4 have that better sensor?

I wouldn't have a clue how they done it, haven't looked into it yet

Without looking at part numbers who knows

[DR-JEKL]

How does the water/meth kill the O2 sensors?

[martymil]

Running any less than 80/20 meth/water will stuff the sensors

Straight from Peters mouth at advan

These sensors aren't designed to measure water

I have no idea how it stuffs them, they just stop working.

[DR-JEKL]

Originally Posted by martymil

Running any less than 80/20 meth/water will stuff the sensors

Straight from Peters mouth at advan

These sensors aren't designed to measure water

I have no idea how it stuffs them, they just stop working.

Hmmm

AFAIK the sensors wont corrode, and most exhausts have a bit of moisture as per normal engine operation...

Hmm would be curious to know the root cause as to why the O2 sensors lifespan would be shortened using meth

Having said that I have no intention of using meth though personally!

[martymil]

Originally Posted by DR-JEKL

Hmmm

AFAIK the sensors wont corrode, and most exhausts have a bit of moisture as per normal engine operation...

Hmm would be curious to know the root cause as to why the O2 sensors lifespan would be shortened using meth

Having said that I have no intention of using meth though personally!

not meth that ruins the sensors its the high concentrations of water.