A Tale of Two 1-Series (6MT Vs. DCT Comparison)

[champignon]

Originally Posted by FrostyDC4

^^^ What he said. This is why I DCT (yes that is a 7 lane wide highway with everyone going <5mph)









Also I kinda agree with the author of the article when he mentioned the 6MT in these cars (and also the E9Xm cars as well) seemed like an after thought. The 6MT 135 cars I drove all had kinda longish rubbery throws.

So why even bother buying a "fun-to-drive" performance car? If my driving was basically a holy hell, I'd be looking for the most comfortable car I could find and be first in line for a driverless car. Fortunately, it is not.

[FrostyDC4]

Originally Posted by champignon

So why even bother buying a "fun-to-drive" performance car? If my driving was basically a holy hell, I'd be looking for the most comfortable car I could find and be first in line for a driverless car. Fortunately, it is not.

Isnt the 1series a comfortable fun to drive performance car

[champignon]

Originally Posted by FrostyDC4

Isnt the 1series a comfortable fun to drive performance car

By the standards of a modern luxury car, the 1-Series is a giant FAIL. It is perhaps a "near-luxury" car. I own a 2016 VW Golf R, which is my utility car, and is at the top of the heap for VW "refinement." The Golf R is no luxury car, either, but from a purely comfort perspective, it is at least as nice as the 1-Series, albeit lacking some of the performance, the feedback of hydraulic steering, but with the benefit of all wheel drive.

None of this is to say that I dislike the 1-Series, in fact I own 3 of them :-) When I drive I want to be one with the vehicle, which is almost impossible to be in almost any current production vehicle, no less those made today by our betters in Munich (if I can base that opinion on the pathetic loaner cars I am given when I drop my 1-Series cars off for service at the dealer). I don't personally care anywhere near as much about "luxury" in a car I am driving than I do about performance and "oneness" with the vehicle. And yes, there is a level of the absence of luxury that I can no longer tolerate; think most any Subaru, for example.

Getting back to the 1-Series and "luxury," yes, you could buy them with leather interiors, yes they could have front electric memory seats, yes, you could get dual, digital climate control, not to mention an extremely lame navigation system with an OK sound system if you were willing to pay for the HK version. Does this add up to being at the level of a real luxury car? I don't think so.

[Gangplank]

Huh?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Huh?

Huh!

[c1pher]

I am for the most part a diehard MT guy, but being in DC traffic made me consider DCT. I feel like you can have most of the fun of the DCT without pushing a clutch and the comfort of an auto when you need it. The DCT does a great job on its own but I do switch to manual mode a lot especially to hear more pops and burbles lol. Can't wait to put Dinan S2 on it.

I think most of the reviews put the 6mt at 0-60 in 4.7 or so seconds. I am pretty sure DCT does it a tenth or so more quickly. Being 4 or more years old, the 135i/is DCT can still put a whooping on newer small sport cars.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by champignon

Huh!

I didn't really understand your comments about 1er luxury. Personally I didn't but my 1series expecting it to be a luxury car. I wanted a sports coupe do that's what I bought.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I didn't really understand your comments about 1er luxury. Personally I didn't but my 1series expecting it to be a luxury car. I wanted a sports coupe do that's what I bought.

I could have been clearer :-)

My original comment was that if I spent most of my driving time in traffic jams with the cars going 5 mph (as the picture I responded to was illustrating), that I would abandon having a "driver's car" and instead be first in line for a self-driving luxury car.

The response I got was implying that the 1-Series was a luxury car. I think the 1-Series are quite comfortable, I would not own 3 of them if I did not, but luxury car? Maybe "near-luxury," or "entry-level luxury," which is what I think the 1-Series was classed as when it was being sold. But they are not really luxurious.

If I ever go the self-driving car route, it will be really luxurious, with a well-stocked bar, a fridge full of caviar and other necessities, and some scantily clad female attendants in there serving me :-)

[Gangplank]

Seems we agree on these points.

[FrostyDC4]

Originally Posted by champignon

I could have been clearer :-)

My original comment was that if I spent most of my driving time in traffic jams with the cars going 5 mph (as the picture I responded to was illustrating), that I would abandon having a "driver's car" and instead be first in line for a self-driving luxury car.

The response I got was implying that the 1-Series was a luxury car. I think the 1-Series are quite comfortable, I would not own 3 of them if I did not, but luxury car? Maybe "near-luxury," or "entry-level luxury," which is what I think the 1-Series was classed as when it was being sold. But they are not really luxurious.

If I ever go the self-driving car route, it will be really luxurious, with a well-stocked bar, a fridge full of caviar and other necessities, and some scantily clad female attendants in there serving me :-)

I didnt imply that the 1er was a luxury car either . IMO its kinda a small comfortable GT car thats quick and easy to putt around town with but can hang with many current sports cars but in an understated package (especially if you go with the 6AT or DCT).

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Seems we agree on these points.

My other car is a Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited. It is made for driving lots of city or highway miles in great comfort. I can typically go 650 miles on a tank. Once made it just over 700 miles. I take the Avalon on most of my commutes, long trips or crappy weather so the BMW can be reserved for sunny and dry days. I really wanted to get its sister car, the Lexus ES300h, but after discounts and negotiations, I was able to get the Avalon fully loaded for ~$12k less.

But I digress, I would consider the 1 a near luxury car despite its lofty MSRP of $51,300 in 2013 dollars (my car's window sticker).

[Gangplank]

I've always thought of BMWs as focused on the performance side of the luxury branded sports sedan.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I've always thought of BMWs as focused on the performance side of the luxury branded sports sedan.

Originally they made fun to drive connected cars that didn't necessarily have all that much power. They became progressively more and more high-end sporty cars with some luxury features in a somewhat spartan, Germanic sense; it was more hard luxury than soft luxury. By that I mean they would commonly have leather interiors and obvious evidence of quality but not especially cushy. That would basically be the BMW golden age that ended around the end of the 1990s.

After that BMW decided to chase the luxury and perceived luxury market, going after car brands in that segment and abandoning, little by little, the market for truly sporty cars connected to the driver. They decided to go after the Japanese luxury brands and Mercedes, because that is where the money is. They also wanted to become a bigger and bigger share of the high end/expensive/high mark up car market. Sports sedans, what they made their name with, were no longer in vogue, so instead they went after such things as SUVs, with their X-line.

Progressively they have ditched the type of driver and the market that made them famous, people who actually enjoyed driving and who wanted second to second feedback from their vehicles. This worked well (for them) because the population in developed countries was graying, roads were getting more and more congested, and a larger segment of the population could afford to buy more expensive vehicles.

So now we have a car company that has more or less abandoned manual transmissions, that embraces electric steering which is generally implemented by them with virtually zero driver feedback and mushiness, a lot of glitz and marketing, and who now confines their definition of "sportiness" to be measured horsepower and 0-60 times. The only vehicle in their entire stable that resembles to the tiniest degree what they made their name on is the M2.

We here on 1-Addicts are a diminishing number of fossils chasing an ever declining number of vehicles that will ultimately end up in a landfill and after these and their predecessors are gone, it will all be over for this once fine brand.

[c1pher]

Agree with your point on the M2. I also like the M4 but honestly it reminds me more of grand touring car, or dare I say, a more luxurious Mustang GT.

[Gangplank]

While I agree, I do have to say that BMW has since the 90s put out some very good vehicles. My X5 4.4 was a fantastic car to drive. It was literally a sports car on 4x4 platform. My e60 545 was also a fantastic car. It had active suspension and drove nearly perfectly. It's achillies heal was the 4.4 maintenance & e60 grmlins (sigh). The 135 drives similar to the e60 545. Similar feedback & acceleration. I do miss the active suspension though. Literally no body roll and grip for miles.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by champignon

We here on 1-Addicts are a diminishing number of fossils chasing an ever declining number of vehicles that will ultimately end up in a landfill and after these and their predecessors are gone, it will all be over for this once fine brand.

Probably hilariously unrealistic, but I wanna keep my 128i 6MT Sport until the wheels fall off, then I'll fix it up and keep driving it. No point in selling it - the value drops another hundred dollars every day (damn you BMW depreciation) so it's a perfect excuse to keep it forever!

I honestly consider this a Grand Touring car. Not enough balls to the walls to be a sports car, but not fancy enough to be luxury. Sure you can get iDrive and leather, but you can also just get a stick with sport suspension .

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by swagon

Most 1 Series are sold with a manual transmission, it's not an afterthought and it does not feel like one.

Nice pics, saw them actually on flickr before and was wondering if they were from a 1addict.

Ive been lurking the 1 series for a while. When I saw the ad for my three pedal manual with low miles I didn't hesitate to contact the seller.

Unless no three pedal manual transmission owner sells their car, I would say 1 in 10 has three pedals, and 7 in 10 are advertised as six speed manuals. Where I come from a manual has three pedals.

[champignon]

I don't usually encounter much traffic where I live, but today there was a blockage on my way skiing and I had to take a detour.

[Gangplank]

That's a moose.

[NorthernDancer]

That's a great shot.

[jlc45]

There is a wide range of vehicles available and most of them are pretty good compared to the crap we had to put up with in the 60's,70's,and 80's.
Today's cars almost always start up and go on demand and their maintenance requirements are almost nothing.
I was happy to find my 2012 135i 6MT at a reasonable price as a treat to myself on my 71st birthday.
I did not want many of the conveniences that manufacturers seem to think we all need. No internet connectivity. No navigation. No 28 high end speakers. (I listen to the engine mostly or some mp3s on a memory stick.) I haven't listened to "radio" in 30 years. No stupid touch screen. No goofy trunk spoiler. No power seats. (Why would I need power seats? The seat is in the same place all the time and I'm the only driver.) No lane keeping assistance, LOL. No automatic braking. Seriously? Automatic braking?
The 135i is tons of fun, sounds a little hairy, goes like a bat outta hell, handles like a car should, has great brakes, is small and not ostentatious, and looks very pleased with itself! If people don't "get it", it's their loss.
Jim

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by jlc45

There is a wide range of vehicles available and most of them are pretty good compared to the crap we had to put up with in the 60's,70's,and 80's.
Today's cars almost always start up and go on demand and their maintenance requirements are almost nothing.
I was happy to find my 2012 135i 6MT at a reasonable price as a treat to myself on my 71st birthday.
I did not want many of the conveniences that manufacturers seem to think we all need. No internet connectivity. No navigation. No 28 high end speakers. (I listen to the engine mostly or some mp3s on a memory stick.) I haven't listened to "radio" in 30 years. No stupid touch screen. No goofy trunk spoiler. No power seats. (Why would I need power seats? The seat is in the same place all the time and I'm the only driver.) No lane keeping assistance, LOL. No automatic braking. Seriously? Automatic braking?
The 135i is tons of fun, sounds a little hairy, goes like a bat outta hell, handles like a car should, has great brakes, is small and not ostentatious, and looks very pleased with itself! If people don't "get it", it's their loss.
Jim