Verified Endemic FLAW at 135i Dealership Introduction in Munich

ZweierCoupe · 11-20-2007, 05:09 PM

This weekend the 135i will be available for public inspection and purchase at BMW dealerships for the first time. This evening, here in Munich, the BMW dealership in the vicinity of the company's research and innovation center put on a special event to "prematurely" (I would say "belatedly") introduce the 135i, among other new cars, to special guests, who were served refreshments. The color was (you guessed it) the metallic Sedona Red we've all seen too many times already. In my opinion the only color they could have chosen that would be even worse is Tahiti Green. Still, it was a very nice car, with a sticker price of €57200 (including 19% value added tax). Based on the current $/€ rate of 1.4848 that translates to $84930 for the consumer. If it had had those sporty 261M wheels, the price would already have been over $85K upon currency conversion. There can be no question that, while the 135i is in a class of its own, its direct competitor in terms of price is the Porsche Cayman with 2.7 liter engine, which is about 200 kg lighter and is going at a 5% discount from the German list price. I look forward to reading the first direct comparison between these two cars, at identical price points. In any case, as I've suggested before, anybody who complains about the suggested US starting price of under $36K being too high is simply nuts.

I got a good at the whole car and, with few exceptions, was pleasantly surprised. Though the interior isn't as nice as that of a full leather Porsche it doesn't seem cheap either. It came in black leather with sports seats, featuring electrically inflatable side supports. Rear seating is ample when the front seats aren't too far back. There's allegedly even an option to have the rear seating equipped to accomodate three persons. (That would make a nice TV commercial.) The trunk space is even bigger than I had imagined. While it may not be able to hold a few large, hard-shell suitcases, there's plenty of space in there for enough soft luggage for four people going on a vacation trip. At least when standing still, the practical advantage of the 135i versus the Cayman is rather evident.

When looking at it the side "chrome" window trim more closely, it seemed more like brushed aluminum since it wasn't shiny, but matte. Black trim, as seen in the 135i at the LA show, is available at no extra charge. The rear windows are glued shut. The interior panels feel rather solid. Having visited all four of BMW's German end assembly facilities, as well as factories of Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, and others, I was of course rather critical in checking the finish quality of this car and ran my finger across the crevices separating the painted metal parts. I detected a minor flaw specific to that particular vehicle: the edge of the closed door was not flush with the side panel. Getting this right is still somewhat of a problem, which is why during production all doors are individually fitted to the corresponding body and subsequently separated as they go through the paint shop. Toward the end of production they are mated again to the body that they were originally fitted to. If you're very particular about now wanting to get stuck with a car having such a flaw it might be better to make a selection at the dealership rather than ordering it.

The second flaw I noticed is so egregious that I'm rather surprised that BMW has allowed it to go through. Unfortunately this flaw seems to be endemic, which means every 1-series coupé is afflicted by it. The flaw is such a whopper that it has been clearly visible in photographs and has already been commented on in the car forum. I'd want to call this symmetrical flaw, which appears on both sides, at the junction of the front corners of the side panels, front hood corners, and top edges of the headlights, as the "supplemental air scoop crevice". There is absolutely no sense in anyone trying to explain this flaw away as some intentional "feature", or whatever. Anyone who runs their finger along the gap created by these sheet metal parts can confirm that this definitely doesn't feel right. Of course, if this flaw was already noticeable from photos on the Internet in July, you can imagine how evident it is when looking at it up close in three dimensions. To remedy this the entire dies for the side panels (one piece that goes from fron to rear lights) will evetually have to be modified to bend the fron tips slightly more inwardly. Anyone coming into contact with this car in the near future will be able to verify this for themselves. If you care about stuff like this, which some may consider rather trivial or irrelevant, you might want to wait until the flaw gets fixed before putting in an order.

The comparison between the 135i and the Cayman is interesting not just because the well equipped (and even heavier) BMW costs the same as the somewhat modestly equipped Porsche but because the gasoline consumption of both vehicles is rather similar given that the latter doesn't have a direct injection engine. On twisty roads it's highly questionable that the 200 kg heavier Bimmer can beat the feeling of the Cayman. The 135i will beat the Cayman in the acceleration and practicality categories however. We'l have to wait and see how they decide on and describe the "fun factor" issue.

atr_hugo · 11-20-2007, 05:19 PM

Thanks for the writeup!

How far out was the door fit - less than 1 mm? (Exterior fit - correct?) How did the margins look on the vertical seems (A or V margins noticable?).

I believe this is the flaw ZweierCoupe is describing. Basically, it is where the hood/fender panels overlap the headlamps - a gap. Here is a low-res pic (check the hi-res sticky for a better shot of it).

1ster · 11-20-2007, 05:28 PM

"Verified endemic flaw"? I appreciate the write-up, but I'm going to have to chalk this up to hyperbole until I see a photo demonstrating exactly what you're talking about.

joelk · 11-20-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ster

"Verified endemic flaw"? I appreciate the write-up, but I'm going to have to chalk this up to hyperbole until I see a photo demonstrating exactly what you're talking about.

if i understand him correctly, it's the same damn thing people were talking about when the photos were released over the summer. see art's photo above.

it's not like things like this just somehow slip by. it was a choice. motivations for that choice? i dunno. but it wasn't an inadvertent mistake.

hyperbole and verbosity ... but nonetheless interesting report

Road Runner · 11-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Hm.... I can see it in every picture now... I think I'll survive, I'll just tell myself they are supplemental air scoops, whatever BMW tells me :redface:

Wicked write up though, thanks!

1ster · 11-20-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Basically where the hood/fender panels overlap the headlamps - it's a gap. Here is a low-res pic (check the hi-res sticky for a better shot of it).

That's it?

ichiban · 11-20-2007, 06:53 PM

nothing some eyelids wont fix.

redwood · 11-20-2007, 06:55 PM

That looks more like a design/production decision than a manufacturing flaw.

larryn · 11-20-2007, 07:55 PM

Zweier, I feel bad that you have to pay Cayman prices for a 135i. I think that the 135i will fail miserably in Germany, if so.

I kind of liked the hood overhang when I first noticed it. "Endemic flaw"??? A bit carried away now, don't you think?

Robert · 11-20-2007, 08:00 PM

Anyone noticed how the trunk seems open from LA auto show?

larryn · 11-20-2007, 08:05 PM

It probably was open. When mine is ajar, it's just a smidgeon from the closed position, like that one is. Btw, there's a couple of rubber twisty plugs (bump stops) on the inside of the trunk lid, that you could easily adjust it, if you wanted to.

Dave · 11-20-2007, 08:06 PM

comgin from jdm cars that snap together i think i can del with this "flaw" lol

Robert · 11-20-2007, 08:07 PM

335i has this over hang too but less pronounced.

LonghornTX · 11-20-2007, 08:13 PM

Are any of these vehicles actual production vehicles or pre-production? I have gotta think that if they are production, they were put there on purpose.

It does suck how much you pay for a Cayman over there. Here, they don't really compete price wise.

Brookside · 11-20-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelk

if i understand him correctly, it's the same damn thing people were talking about when the photos were released over the summer. see art's photo above.

it's not like things like this just somehow slip by. it was a choice. motivations for that choice? i dunno. but it wasn't an inadvertent mistake.

hyperbole and verbosity ... but nonetheless interesting report

Yes, we talked earlier about this same thing...and for me, it's not exactly like a tooth missing in a smile- but still....what I think the reason is the curvature of the headlight housing not quite meshing with the edge of the fender and hood in a seamless fashion. No big deal...and yet calling the gap an "airduct" sounds like carsalesman-speak for "don't believe what your eyes are telling you.."

Thanks Zweier...nice post. I hate it when someone gets bushwacked for derivation from the company line.

1ster · 11-20-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brookside

Thanks Zweier...nice post. I hate it when someone gets bushwacked for derivation from the company line.

He didn't get bushwacked for derivation from the company line. He got bushwacked for calling it an "Endemic FLAW." (emphasis original)

It's a tad Chicken Little.

Brookside · 11-20-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ster

He didn't get bushwacked for derivation from the company line. He got bushwacked for calling it an "Endemic FLAW." (emphasis original)

It's a tad Chicken Little.

Just a tad...? No it's over the top - but it certainly appears to be a flaw in that it breaks up the line...pretty much of a design no-no in that there's an awkward interruption.
If it appears in production in every 1-er it's "endemic" and Zweier's right.
If it appears in every 1-er and it's passed off as a deliberate design for airflow under the hood...as may be the case...it's visually poorly done.

~AJ · 11-20-2007, 10:20 PM

Two things.

The gap is intentional, or a huge modern company like BMW wouldn't present the car to the world if it was a "flaw."

Secondly, if indeed a "flaw" the less expensive "fix" is a new headlight lens assembly. Those sheet metal dies are very, very expensive!

Finally, how do we know that the intentional "flaw" isn't there for aerodymanic reasons? Or wind noise reasons? Or even style?

This is a non-issue folks. There are other things about this car worth grumbling about.

-AJ

aesthetect · 11-20-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ~

The gap is intentional, or a huge modern company like BMW wouldn't present the car to the world if it was a "flaw."

i agree. its not something that would have just slipped past designers in every phase when its something we noticed as soon as the first press release photos were out. they know its there. i dont think its enough to warrant the title "endemic flaw" haha but to each his own, and i can understand we have a lot of tough design critics on here.
honestly i think they did it for the purpose that the car has an admittedly and purposefully stubbish appearance and that to close the corners down on that gap would have produced too round of a corner there, not fitting the rest of the concept (i still feel the front end has a bit too much of a round/soft feel). but if that was the case i also agree with AJ that filling that gap with headlight would not have been impossible, maybe even a good idea. maybe it really does allow some surprisingly beneficial flow to the engine?? doubt it.

bradford · 11-20-2007, 11:01 PM

My 2004 S4 has the same overlap on top of the headlights as well.

This isn't my car, but you can kind of see it...

Khobin~ · 11-21-2007, 12:23 AM

I think it's just because of how the hood the meets the smooth, plastic headlight cover...look at any car where this happens and you'll find something similar.

Granted in the photo above, and how the the side panel meets the hood in that area, it makes it look more noticable, but it wasn't a flaw, so much as a limitation of the design...perhaps they could have had the seam for the hood and side panel located more to the side, but then it have destroyed the lines of the hood/side...Overall I think they what they did was probably the best choice for the design as a whole.

ZweierCoupe · 11-21-2007, 12:33 AM

Even the former head of Volkswagen, Ferdinand Piëch, heir to the Austrian Porsche fortune, was said to be extremely meticulous about final workmanship quality, so from this self-critical assessment it certainly is a flaw because it was immediately visible on the initial public release photos on the Internet. Gaps that are too large or with inconsistent widths are indeed an issue in the industry, especially among premium brands.

I wasn't there with a caliper to measure the extent of this flaw. Even better than running the finger across the length of the crevice to feel its inconsistency would be to get a small sphere (ball bearing) with just the right size and run it along the gap. At a certain diameter the bearing will just fall through. As I recall, the gap between hood and side panel was also not completely consistent. The fact is, that assembly lines experience issues like this all the time. I think one of the reasons why introductory models aren't sold in the American market until a few months after their initial appearance in Germany is to correct such flaws or defects before subjecting them onto such a competitive marketplace, where French cars can't even make the cut.

With premium gasoline prices already running at $8/gallon in Germany, the 135i will likely not be such a huge seller here, just as the Cayman isn't either, due more to its inflated price (even after the 5% discount). I suppose more than half of the 1er coupé sales will go to the 123d, which was also on display. Eventually the 130i coupé will be available here too, and it has much better fuel efficiency than the 135i.

11-20-2007, 05:09 PM	#1
ZweierCoupe Private 9 Rep 82 Posts Drives: Join Date: Feb 2007 iTrader: (0)	Verified Endemic FLAW at 135i Dealership Introduction in Munich This weekend the 135i will be available for public inspection and purchase at BMW dealerships for the first time. This evening, here in Munich, the BMW dealership in the vicinity of the company's research and innovation center put on a special event to "prematurely" (I would say "belatedly") introduce the 135i, among other new cars, to special guests, who were served refreshments. The color was (you guessed it) the metallic Sedona Red we've all seen too many times already. In my opinion the only color they could have chosen that would be even worse is Tahiti Green. Still, it was a very nice car, with a sticker price of €57200 (including 19% value added tax). Based on the current $/€ rate of 1.4848 that translates to $84930 for the consumer. If it had had those sporty 261M wheels, the price would already have been over $85K upon currency conversion. There can be no question that, while the 135i is in a class of its own, its direct competitor in terms of price is the Porsche Cayman with 2.7 liter engine, which is about 200 kg lighter and is going at a 5% discount from the German list price. I look forward to reading the first direct comparison between these two cars, at identical price points. In any case, as I've suggested before, anybody who complains about the suggested US starting price of under $36K being too high is simply nuts. I got a good at the whole car and, with few exceptions, was pleasantly surprised. Though the interior isn't as nice as that of a full leather Porsche it doesn't seem cheap either. It came in black leather with sports seats, featuring electrically inflatable side supports. Rear seating is ample when the front seats aren't too far back. There's allegedly even an option to have the rear seating equipped to accomodate three persons. (That would make a nice TV commercial.) The trunk space is even bigger than I had imagined. While it may not be able to hold a few large, hard-shell suitcases, there's plenty of space in there for enough soft luggage for four people going on a vacation trip. At least when standing still, the practical advantage of the 135i versus the Cayman is rather evident. When looking at it the side "chrome" window trim more closely, it seemed more like brushed aluminum since it wasn't shiny, but matte. Black trim, as seen in the 135i at the LA show, is available at no extra charge. The rear windows are glued shut. The interior panels feel rather solid. Having visited all four of BMW's German end assembly facilities, as well as factories of Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, and others, I was of course rather critical in checking the finish quality of this car and ran my finger across the crevices separating the painted metal parts. I detected a minor flaw specific to that particular vehicle: the edge of the closed door was not flush with the side panel. Getting this right is still somewhat of a problem, which is why during production all doors are individually fitted to the corresponding body and subsequently separated as they go through the paint shop. Toward the end of production they are mated again to the body that they were originally fitted to. If you're very particular about now wanting to get stuck with a car having such a flaw it might be better to make a selection at the dealership rather than ordering it. The second flaw I noticed is so egregious that I'm rather surprised that BMW has allowed it to go through. Unfortunately this flaw seems to be endemic, which means every 1-series coupé is afflicted by it. The flaw is such a whopper that it has been clearly visible in photographs and has already been commented on in the car forum. I'd want to call this symmetrical flaw, which appears on both sides, at the junction of the front corners of the side panels, front hood corners, and top edges of the headlights, as the "supplemental air scoop crevice". There is absolutely no sense in anyone trying to explain this flaw away as some intentional "feature", or whatever. Anyone who runs their finger along the gap created by these sheet metal parts can confirm that this definitely doesn't feel right. Of course, if this flaw was already noticeable from photos on the Internet in July, you can imagine how evident it is when looking at it up close in three dimensions. To remedy this the entire dies for the side panels (one piece that goes from fron to rear lights) will evetually have to be modified to bend the fron tips slightly more inwardly. Anyone coming into contact with this car in the near future will be able to verify this for themselves. If you care about stuff like this, which some may consider rather trivial or irrelevant, you might want to wait until the flaw gets fixed before putting in an order. The comparison between the 135i and the Cayman is interesting not just because the well equipped (and even heavier) BMW costs the same as the somewhat modestly equipped Porsche but because the gasoline consumption of both vehicles is rather similar given that the latter doesn't have a direct injection engine. On twisty roads it's highly questionable that the 200 kg heavier Bimmer can beat the feeling of the Cayman. The 135i will beat the Cayman in the acceleration and practicality categories however. We'l have to wait and see how they decide on and describe the "fun factor" issue.
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11-20-2007, 05:19 PM	#2
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the writeup! How far out was the door fit - less than 1 mm? (Exterior fit - correct?) How did the margins look on the vertical seems (A or V margins noticable?). I believe this is the flaw ZweierCoupe is describing. Basically, it is where the hood/fender panels overlap the headlamps - a gap. Here is a low-res pic (check the hi-res sticky for a better shot of it). Attached Images
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11-20-2007, 05:28 PM	#3
1ster Large Member 164 Rep 937 Posts Drives: Join Date: Aug 2007 iTrader: (0)	"Verified endemic flaw"? I appreciate the write-up, but I'm going to have to chalk this up to hyperbole until I see a photo demonstrating exactly what you're talking about.
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11-20-2007, 05:45 PM	#5
Road Runner Lieutenant 18 Rep 470 Posts Drives: Join Date: Aug 2007 iTrader: (0)	Hm.... I can see it in every picture now... I think I'll survive, I'll just tell myself they are supplemental air scoops, whatever BMW tells me :redface: Wicked write up though, thanks!
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11-20-2007, 06:53 PM	#7
ichiban Colonel 95 Rep 2,012 Posts Drives: 08 135i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (2)	nothing some eyelids wont fix.
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11-20-2007, 06:55 PM	#8
redwood Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 292 Posts Drives: 1999 BMW 328i Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	That looks more like a design/production decision than a manufacturing flaw.
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11-20-2007, 07:55 PM	#9
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	Zweier, I feel bad that you have to pay Cayman prices for a 135i. I think that the 135i will fail miserably in Germany, if so. I kind of liked the hood overhang when I first noticed it. "Endemic flaw"??? A bit carried away now, don't you think?
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11-20-2007, 08:00 PM	#10
Robert Major General 417 Rep 6,968 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	Anyone noticed how the trunk seems open from LA auto show? __________________ - There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
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11-20-2007, 08:05 PM	#11
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	It probably was open. When mine is ajar, it's just a smidgeon from the closed position, like that one is. Btw, there's a couple of rubber twisty plugs (bump stops) on the inside of the trunk lid, that you could easily adjust it, if you wanted to.
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11-20-2007, 08:06 PM	#12
Dave formerly izzo/comeback 287 Rep 3,382 Posts Drives: 2016 RC 350 F Sport Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 135i [6.80]	comgin from jdm cars that snap together i think i can del with this "flaw" lol __________________ BMW CCA # 418268
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11-20-2007, 08:07 PM	#13
Robert Major General 417 Rep 6,968 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	335i has this over hang too but less pronounced. __________________ - There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
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11-20-2007, 08:13 PM	#14
LonghornTX Second Lieutenant 6 Rep 289 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jan 2006 iTrader: (0)	Are any of these vehicles actual production vehicles or pre-production? I have gotta think that if they are production, they were put there on purpose. It does suck how much you pay for a Cayman over there. Here, they don't really compete price wise.
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11-20-2007, 10:20 PM	#18
~AJ Private First Class 3 Rep 184 Posts Drives: None Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: OC iTrader: (0)	Two things. The gap is intentional, or a huge modern company like BMW wouldn't present the car to the world if it was a "flaw." Secondly, if indeed a "flaw" the less expensive "fix" is a new headlight lens assembly. Those sheet metal dies are very, very expensive! Finally, how do we know that the intentional "flaw" isn't there for aerodymanic reasons? Or wind noise reasons? Or even style? This is a non-issue folks. There are other things about this car worth grumbling about. -AJ
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11-20-2007, 11:01 PM	#20
bradford Major 28 Rep 1,035 Posts Drives: 2008 SGM 135i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago > * iTrader: (4)	My 2004 S4 has the same overlap on top of the headlights as well. This isn't my car, but you can kind of see it...
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11-21-2007, 12:23 AM	#21
Khobin~ First Lieutenant 15 Rep 312 Posts Drives: Join Date: Aug 2007 iTrader: (0)	I think it's just because of how the hood the meets the smooth, plastic headlight cover...look at any car where this happens and you'll find something similar. Granted in the photo above, and how the the side panel meets the hood in that area, it makes it look more noticable, but it wasn't a flaw, so much as a limitation of the design...perhaps they could have had the seam for the hood and side panel located more to the side, but then it have destroyed the lines of the hood/side...Overall I think they what they did was probably the best choice for the design as a whole.
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11-21-2007, 12:33 AM	#22
ZweierCoupe Private 9 Rep 82 Posts Drives: Join Date: Feb 2007 iTrader: (0)	Inconsistencies like this are definitely a big issue in the premium brand sector Even the former head of Volkswagen, Ferdinand Piëch, heir to the Austrian Porsche fortune, was said to be extremely meticulous about final workmanship quality, so from this self-critical assessment it certainly is a flaw because it was immediately visible on the initial public release photos on the Internet. Gaps that are too large or with inconsistent widths are indeed an issue in the industry, especially among premium brands. I wasn't there with a caliper to measure the extent of this flaw. Even better than running the finger across the length of the crevice to feel its inconsistency would be to get a small sphere (ball bearing) with just the right size and run it along the gap. At a certain diameter the bearing will just fall through. As I recall, the gap between hood and side panel was also not completely consistent. The fact is, that assembly lines experience issues like this all the time. I think one of the reasons why introductory models aren't sold in the American market until a few months after their initial appearance in Germany is to correct such flaws or defects before subjecting them onto such a competitive marketplace, where French cars can't even make the cut. With premium gasoline prices already running at $8/gallon in Germany, the 135i will likely not be such a huge seller here, just as the Cayman isn't either, due more to its inflated price (even after the 5% discount). I suppose more than half of the 1er coupé sales will go to the 123d, which was also on display. Eventually the 130i coupé will be available here too, and it has much better fuel efficiency than the 135i.
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