A real challenge: What compares with the 1Series?

[tbird]

Ok, here's the challenge. Find this class of car "Premium, Compact 2+2 Coupe, RWD".

How many people think that there is no difference between the 328i and the 528i? They are both sedans, both RWD, roughly the same height (.7” diff), roughly the same height (1.9”), similar options, and they share engines, so they must be comparable, right? Of course, the answer is “OMG NO!!” The 5 Series is 12 inches longer, is heavier, and is also designed quite differently. So why the heck are we comparing the Infinity G37 to the 1 Series?

The 3 Sedan and 5 Sedan are more alike, and even the 135ci and 335ci are more alike, than the 135 and G37. Literally! However, everyone compares 135 to G37. The G37 actually matches up to the 335ci, as well as the Audi S5 and the MB CLK on basic specs. Compare those together, that is appropriate.

But to the 1 that is nearly A FOOT shorter and 3 inches less in width than a G37, that is significantly different! From off-the-line, to the track, to just basic city/hwy driving, they are vastly different vehicles. It’s like comparing a Camry to a 7 Series. So to all the G37 folks, go compare to the 335ci and post the comps in the E90 forum.

I see people comparing the Mitsubishi Evo to the 1, but they are reeeeally different cars. I see the RX8, which is similar but not really premium. VW compares against Honda for “the people’s car”. However, the R32 could be compared a bit since it is so highly specialized, but AWD is so different from either FWD/RWD, and the R32 is really more of a sub-compact.

So my contention is that there are no “direct” comparisons in class to the 1Series. Nothing is a match to have a truly accurate comparison. Good or bad, the 1 Series stands on its own. It created its own market to succeed or fail.

So, I open this up to the “one-off comparisons”. We have BMW, Porsche, Audi, MB, Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Alfa Romeo, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, and Saab for the “premium car” market. Not sure if Peugeot, Citroen, Seat, or Fiat fit in the premium category, that is open for contention.

Volvo C30 is hatch and FWD, Alfa Brera is FWD, A3 is hatch/FWD, and RX-8 squeaks in from mid-level car market. Can anyone think of any other cars that fit as even a one-off on comparison? Then these get matched up on 1) 0-60 straight line, 2) Track, and 3) City/Hwy driving?

That is more accurate of comparison. The floor is open for debate.

[gtaday51]

Ill just say what I cross shoped my 1 too.
Audi A3 3.2 and a Roush Stage 3 Mustang.
Three very different cars. But the fact of the matter is, in terms of performance and roughly equal price the 1er's closest comparo is the Mustang GT. Obviously there are key differences that make the Mustang a non comparo to the Bimmer. Such as build quality and the premium image. But hey, in terms of performance for 35K. They both make a bit of sense.

Just my .02

[tbird]

Mustang is a full 16 inches longer, another 5 inches wider, and is mainly V8 engines. Specs put it to different mechanical class. It compares more to 3 series.

It is also not premium market, that's for sure. Hard to be premium when the car is on "Fleet Vehicle" status. Could you pull up to a fancy restaurant, or pop down to the yacht club, and park your Mustang next to a Bentley or Porsche and brag? Nope. So definitely not premium.

As for power, you could easily compare the M3 to the new Camaro, but let's face it, those are entirely different cars.

So it is an entirely different car. I really want to see if there is anything that matches up on true class standing. Can anything say that it is a direct competitor to the 1Series?

[imported_mega]

I cross shopped the new camaro, cayman, e9x m3, e46 m3, the rx8, the new hyundai genesis coupe, the 335i

if I was buying one today, it would be the genesis coupe or the camaro both were not out when I bought my 135i

my rules were simple

must have 2 doors
must have back seats
must have rwd

[tbird]

Obviously, the only one that "sorta" compares is the Genesis coupe.

Engines match up, it is a 2+2. However, would anyone put Hyundai as a premium car?

But the Genesis Coupe is 10.5 inches shorter and 4.5 inches less in width. Again, not a direct competitor. It compares more to the G37 and 335ci, not the 135ci.

[imported_mega]

I think it's a perfect direct competitor

and I would put it in with the premium cars now

it seems like your trying to argue nothing is the exact same size so nothing competes, I'll just have to disagree with you

[BForbes]

BMW knew exactly what it was doing with the 1series. It really has no direct competitors. The cars its pinned up against are not really GT's. They're mostly two seaters and suppose to be more focused.

[BlackjackMulligan]

Audi TT.

And I would have no problem parking the following outside a nice resturant. Then again, I'm not a badge snob, I just appreciate nice cars:

[imported_mega]

the 135i is considered a gt car?

I sure dont consider it one, just too small for that

[tbird]

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with me. This is a thread to evoke research/debate.

When I say "direct competitor", I refer to "A4 vs 3Sedan vs MB C-class sedan", or "A6 vs 5Sedan vs MB E-class sedan". Even "Corolla vs Sentra vs Civic", "Altima vs Camry vs Accord", these are direct competitors. These cars totally match up and compete directly against each other.

The Genesis Coupe, the G37, the Mustang, the Camaro, these all fit against the 335ci. They have directly competitive specs in length, width, engines, hp, styling, etc. Just as mentioned, there are TONS of similarities between the 3Series and 5Series sedans, but they are not comparable, they are distinctly different.

With the Hyundai "Genesis" line, one could possibly put it to a "Premium" market denomination, since the sedan is going against Lexus and Infiniti.

I am just trying to see if we can at least put up a fair competition for the 1. It is totally fair to compare the A4 to the 3Series and MB C-Class. Putting the 1 up to cars that are much bigger and designed different, if we are forced to do that, it should at least be noted. 10 inches to a full foot longer in length, that will vastly change the way a vehicle handles, such as with the thread about the "1 Series at high speed being unstable".

[tbird]

Audi TT matches up with the Z3 or Z4, it is a two seater. If it was a 2+2, then it really would be a direct competitor.

[Monterra]

in order of most relevent first: 3 coupe, G37, RX8, Genesis Coupe, and to a lesser extent Mustang and Camaro. While they vary in overall length/width/height/weight, they're all sporting RWD 2+2s.

[Monterra]

A5/S5 too I guess...

[AZ135]

The Genesis Coupe, the G37, the Mustang, the Camaro, these all fit against the 335ci. They have directly competitive specs in length, width, engines, hp, styling, etc.

I would argue this. While they are closer in size to the 3 series, all of those cars listed above compete on price with the 1 series, not the 3. They still have similar engines (some of them) and hp to the 135. And really, everything comes down to price.

I actually cross shopped the G37 and would have cross shopped the new Mustang (2010, nicely updated... check it out), Camaro, Genesis Coupe, and 370z had they been out. All of those cars have relatively similar performance (0-60 times, braking, cornering, etc.), so I would argue that they are direct competitors to the 135 because of performance and price.

[Evolved]

How many times has this exact same topic been "discussed" now?


I've never been on a site where the people constantly feel the need to defend their cars as much as you guys do. The 135 is a great car, enjoy what you have and move on.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by tbird

Audi TT matches up with the Z3 or Z4, it is a two seater. If it was a 2+2, then it really would be a direct competitor.

The TT coupe is a 2+2. It is a rather small back seat though.

[HeyMoe53]

All of the above points to one fact. People who cross-shopped, and ended up buying a 1-series test-drove a lot of different cars.

Add to that the reality that many of the cars of a similar size to a 1-series are FWD, then it is logical to conclude that the 1-series is pretty much in a category of its own.

That said, I am still interested in getting a 128, but I don't know what other cars I would test-drive, unless I went to FWD, which puts cars like the GTI into play.

It's part of what makes the 1 so unique.

[tbird]

This again lends to my assertion. If the only competition to the 1Series is its own big brother and its competitors, then let's state that clearly.

And, as for size, when we have car reviewers out there, let alone some car owners, who will complain that they don't like the 1Series over the 3Series due to 3 or 4 inches, then length/width/dimensions do get called out to count.

If the comparison has to ultimately end up as apples-to-oranges, so be it. But if we can find a true apples-to-apples comparison, let's find it. A4 has the 3Sedan, A5 has the 3Coupe. Let's find all the cars we can.

So far, I still see the Brera, the A3 hatch, and the Volvo C30 being the closest. G37 and Genesis Coupe, now that is a true direct competition, and of course then put the 335ci to those, now that would be a true battle for fominance.

[evoshane]

lexus is350 rwd, 2x2, similiar power, targeted at younger men

[tbird]

And if the G37 and Genesis Coupe and Mustang are competition for the 1, then what is the competition for the 335ci then?

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

The TT coupe is a 2+2. It is a rather small back seat though.

I totally forgot the TT coupe had a backseat. Its still FWD in its base form though.

[AZ135]

And if the G37 and Genesis Coupe and Mustang are competition for the 1, then what is the competition for the 335ci then?

S5, Clk550, and G37.