F10 5 Series loaner, Never Again

[TheSt|G]

Took the 1 in for a warranty oil change and a rattle and got a F10 528i as a loaner. Some thoughts and a wall of text:

Pros:
-Nice ride
-Comfortable for passengers
-Cubbyhole in drivers side is nice for a gun
-Good climate control in function
-Good headroom front and back
-Decent legroom

Cons:
-Unbelievably vague controls
-ZERO feedback to the point where I feel out of control
-Slow
-Interior feels like garbage
-Electronic ebrake is dumb/counter intuitive
-Auto shift knob is needlessly complicated
-Cluster info screen is bad
-Climate control looks like it is from a Toyota
-iDrive still takes a bit of time to fire up
-Needless settings
-Huge, yet not efficient

Normally I would say that there are so many problems that I don't know where to start, but I do know where to start. The handling and feedback to the driver is fucking abysmal. I have never driven a performance focused car with such terrible communication. I don't know where the tires are, I don't know what the road surface is, I have no idea what the hell is going on at any time. The net result was that I ended up going the speed limit pretty much everywhere because I didn't feel confident that I knew what the car was going to do. This one facet, by itself, sucks all the fun from driving.

The car is slow. Really slow. The 8 speed is geared to get it to 60, but much beyond that it completely falls on its face. I suppose picking up 400-500lbs over its predecessor rears its ugly head. Engine also sounds like garbage, but I wasn't expecting much to begin with. Popping the engine bay isn't much of a treat either with the flopping plastic handle that has replaced the metal of old under the hood. The power curve is bad, but the 8 speed auto masks it well.

Interior looks and feels like junk. The materials feel cheap. The dash has a solid clunk to it, but the materials on the surface betray it. The climate control screen looks like the famous Toyota clock that ends up in everyone of their cars. The gauges for the cluster are far to small and take a back seat to the blurry iDrive system. The info display on the cluster is off centered and looks like a cheap aftermarket retrofit. When there is sun during the day the cluster and iDrive quickly lose visibility. I was unable to get my ideal driving position due to stylized dash board that comes up at an angle from the center cluster and prevents my knee from moving close enough to the dashboard. The arm rest has next to no storage aside from a pair of sunglasses. Despite the size of the car(massive), I don't think there is much more interior space than the F30 3 series. Certainly not in terms of leg room, there might actually be less.

Eco, Comfort, and Sport are completely pointless additions to the car. Making my gas pedal muted or jumpy isn't helpful in the slightest. Flashy graphics on the cluster are simply a distraction from what you should be doing, driving. Auto stop start is jarring, and for a car that gets 16-17 mpg, who cares. The ebrake drove me up the wall. I get that they designed it to simulate a real ebrake that you pull up on to activate, but it makes no sense when it is a button. You push buttons and pull levers. No one pulls a button. It is counter intuitive.

I can't believe someone would pay $57,000+ for this sea of misery. It feels like a nice Corolla, nothing more.

[thehalcyon]

Go on then, tell us how you really feel!



I can't imagine the agony of getting a 5 series loaner myself, given that my dealership doesn't give loaners. You have to pay for them $29 a day and book them weeks in advance.

[the1andonly]

Ive had 2 528, and 3 328 loaners and I agree with you 100%!!! These cars are pure trash for the cost...a completely disconnected experience, and the new "award winning" 4 engine is absolutely awful...the cars have no soul

stepping back into my "entry level" 128 is like stepping into a fine tuned machine that is what BMW used to be...

[Dafttt]

BMW built this car for the masses, not the enthusiast. I agree, it's worse for us - but it's significantly less compromised for the them. I applaud BMW for trying to be 'the ultimate driving machine' today, but in reality, this is exactly what people want and pay for. I see BMW targeting the 528i as the next step upward for a Camry owner, coming to an end of their lease.

Believe it or not, I've driven dozens of these. Something about the 528i feels sub par to rest of the lineup. You wouldn't complain as much in a 535i M Sport or higher, besides the tangible ergonomics and arguable design flaws. Fuck the E-Brake, but don't even bother complaining. It's in everything - BMW, Benz, even a Porshce Cayman S.

I agree on the Corolla remarks. Been in dozens of new Toyotas too; Corolla, Camry, Rav-4, Avalon. The latter being arguably nicer than a 528i. Unfortunately, I'm completely serious.

[tuco44]

The problem boils down to simply this:
- there are probably ten to fifteen times as many badge-seekers, and wanna-bes as there are real enthusiasts, thus
- BMW will make a ton more money and return on shareholder investment selling way more cars to the non-enthusiast crowd.

BMW built it's reputation on enthusiasts, but there are not enough of us any more. It's the overall dumbing-down of driving in general.

Sometimes I am happy that I don't have a bunch more years to be frustrated by this trend.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by tuco44

BMW built it's reputation on enthusiasts, but there are not enough of us any more. It's the overall dumbing-down of driving in general.

Sometimes I am happy that I don't have a bunch more years to be frustrated by this trend.

Fortunately I'm mechanically capable enough I can just run cars from the generation of my choosing.

[BenDiem]

Agreed on all accounts!

Comparing the overall quality feel of my 128i to my X3 is day and night. I'm serious. Granted, the X3 35i MSport is an SAV on steroids, but the rest of the quality control is seriously lacking; from the paint, interior bits, sheet metal, thinner doors on the X3, to the numerous squeaks in the X3...

I prefer the 1 over the X3 all day long. When I close the doors on the 1, I still sense a semblance of quality with the nice thunk. Closing the X3 doors, I'm afraid the door will fall off; Exaggeration notwithstanding, lol. Realizing the significant quality deficiencies of the X3, when I compare it to my 1, the X3 will be traded in on something new when the warranty expires. The 1 will remain in my household for a very long time.

I drove the new 328i last week when I got my 1's windows tinted. I swear I thought I was driving a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord, then I remembered neither car offers a diesel engine, so then I realized I was actually driving a 4 cylinder BMW, lol.

I'm a serious BMW enthusiast; however, the direction BMW and most every other manufacturer is going is not for the better. It's the sign of the times. Cost cutting and volume sales is the name of the game.

Cheers/B

[jester17]

REALITY CHECK ON BMW BUYERS:

...remember the recent thread with the pic of the guy in the BMW mag? The crowd they're perhaps trying to charm?

'Cause that guy sure ain't no enthusiast...

[stampchez]

I haven't driven an F10 but my previous F30 was pretty disappointing. I'm holding out hope that the M guys can fix things but it's hard to make up for a weak backbone.

[Dackelone]

IF you think a 528i is a pig you should come over here where BMW will build you a 520i or 518d - no joke!

The base engine(for the states) for the 5er should really be the 535i N55, with the 550i TTv8 as the top non M engine. Over here most people get a 520d or a 530d. It is very rare day when I see a 535i (N55) 5er on the Autobahns.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by jester17

'Cause that guy sure ain't no enthusiast...

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

IF you think a 528i is a pig you should come over here where BMW will build you a 520i or 518d - no joke!

The base engine(for the states) for the 5er should really be the 535i N55, with the 550i TTv8 as the top non M engine. Over here most people get a 520d or a 530d. It is very rare day when I see a 535i (N55) 5er on the Autobahns.

I bet a 535i cost a ton over there with taxes and stuff.

I've driven one, everything is numb from the steering to the ride. It's is comfy though i kept checking the badge on the steering wheel making sure it was a BMW and not a Lexus. Basically it's a German Lexus GS.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I bet a 535i cost a ton over there with taxes and stuff.

I've driven one, everything is numb from the steering to the ride. It's is comfy though i kept checking the badge on the steering wheel making sure it was a BMW and not a Lexus. Basically it's a German Lexus GS.

Base price for a 535i is 55K euros or about $75K. You could easily add 10 to 15K in options.

[Adam135]

I enjoyed the new 328 but you definitely need to put the transmission in Sport mode.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by Adam135

I enjoyed the new 328 but you definitely need to put the transmission in Sport mode.

Hated Stop-start and having to turn it off each time you started the car.

N20 was plenty powerful, but hated the delivery.

Never found a "mode" in which I felt I could leave the transmission all the time.

Felt disconnected with the Servotronic electromechanical steering system.

Base seats felt like I was sliding all over the place.

As disconnected as I felt, it still went where I pointed it without drama. I guess that's a plus.

I am not the target demographic.

[COBodom]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Took the 1 in for a warranty oil change and a rattle and got a F10 528i as a loaner. Some thoughts and a wall of text:

Pros:
-Nice ride
-Comfortable for passengers
-Cubbyhole in drivers side is nice for a gun
-Good climate control in function
-Good headroom front and back
-Decent legroom

Cons:
-Unbelievably vague controls
-ZERO feedback to the point where I feel out of control
-Slow
-Interior feels like garbage
-Electronic ebrake is dumb/counter intuitive
-Auto shift knob is needlessly complicated
-Cluster info screen is bad
-Climate control looks like it is from a Toyota
-iDrive still takes a bit of time to fire up
-Needless settings
-Huge, yet not efficient

Normally I would say that there are so many problems that I don't know where to start, but I do know where to start. The handling and feedback to the driver is fucking abysmal. I have never driven a performance focused car with such terrible communication. I don't know where the tires are, I don't know what the road surface is, I have no idea what the hell is going on at any time. The net result was that I ended up going the speed limit pretty much everywhere because I didn't feel confident that I knew what the car was going to do. This one facet, by itself, sucks all the fun from driving.

The car is slow. Really slow. The 8 speed is geared to get it to 60, but much beyond that it completely falls on its face. I suppose picking up 400-500lbs over its predecessor rears its ugly head. Engine also sounds like garbage, but I wasn't expecting much to begin with. Popping the engine bay isn't much of a treat either with the flopping plastic handle that has replaced the metal of old under the hood. The power curve is bad, but the 8 speed auto masks it well.

Interior looks and feels like junk. The materials feel cheap. The dash has a solid clunk to it, but the materials on the surface betray it. The climate control screen looks like the famous Toyota clock that ends up in everyone of their cars. The gauges for the cluster are far to small and take a back seat to the blurry iDrive system. The info display on the cluster is off centered and looks like a cheap aftermarket retrofit. When there is sun during the day the cluster and iDrive quickly lose visibility. I was unable to get my ideal driving position due to stylized dash board that comes up at an angle from the center cluster and prevents my knee from moving close enough to the dashboard. The arm rest has next to no storage aside from a pair of sunglasses. Despite the size of the car(massive), I don't think there is much more interior space than the F30 3 series. Certainly not in terms of leg room, there might actually be less.

Eco, Comfort, and Sport are completely pointless additions to the car. Making my gas pedal muted or jumpy isn't helpful in the slightest. Flashy graphics on the cluster are simply a distraction from what you should be doing, driving. Auto stop start is jarring, and for a car that gets 16-17 mpg, who cares. The ebrake drove me up the wall. I get that they designed it to simulate a real ebrake that you pull up on to activate, but it makes no sense when it is a button. You push buttons and pull levers. No one pulls a button. It is counter intuitive.

I can't believe someone would pay $57,000+ for this sea of misery. It feels like a nice Corolla, nothing more.

I realize responding to this thread on the 1 series forum makes little to absolutely no sense, but this “review” calls for an answer. I am not here to bitch and moan about the great car that 1 series is either.

Since you’re driving older M cars or a 1 series I can understand how the N20 or the F10 handling doesn’t live up to a small go-kart experience of a 1 series. The F10 chassis is built on the underpinnings of the 7 series. I can somehow understand your disappointment with the N20 and the F10 handling, but everything else in your review just doesn’t add up.

As much as I would like to say “to each his own” I just can’t. You’re making absolutely no sense and in some cases bluntly going against the pure facts. None of these cons are true:

Cons:
-Unbelievably vague controls
-ZERO feedback to the point where I feel out of control
-Interior feels like garbage
-Electronic ebrake is dumb/counter intuitive
-Auto shift knob is needlessly complicated
-Cluster info screen is bad
-Climate control looks like it is from a Toyota
-iDrive still takes a bit of time to fire up
-Needless settings
-Huge, yet not efficient

To say that “Interior feels like garbage” it’s just a joke. I would really like to know what your point of reference here is. Have you ever driven any of the F10 current competitors Infinity M, A6, GS or E-Class ? I can bet money you have not; otherwise you would have known how deeply wrong you are. F10 interior fit, finish and materials are the best in its class (by many car magazines).

Then you keep on complaining about the “blurry iDrive system” or how you are unable to get the “ideal driving position due to stylized dash board that comes up at an angle ( …”). Have you tried to adjust the iDrive brightness? If you find the interior of the F10 uncomfortable how you do fit in the 1 series? Again, I would imagine you must have some shiny example of an ideal midsize sedan. A point of reference that makes you complain about the F10 so much. Which of the f10 competitors you find more comfortable? A Corolla? Maybe you're comparing the interior space against the S-Class. Not sure...

The best part is your comparison against the F30 or the mention of the “dumb/counter intuitive ebreak” and the “needlessly complicated Auto shift knob”. You clearly have never driven an F30. I had the F30 as a loaner for a few days. It’s night and day between F10 and F30 when it comes to interior space. These are facts, stuff you can google.

You do realize that its 2013 and whether its iDrive, MMI, Mbrace, ebreak or auto shift knob; any new technology requires a learning curve at first. All of these have been out there for years and just because you’re coming across them for the first time doesn’t mean that F10 sucks. I mean, this almost sounds like my grandma who still doesn’t trust ATMs and stands in a 15min line to deposit cash with a teller.

Either way I am glad you enjoyed the gun “cubbyhole in driver’s side”. Next gen. corolla might have it too for way cheaper than the 5.

[thehalcyon]

Originally Posted by COBodom

To say that “Interior feels like garbage” it’s just a joke. I would really like to know what your point of reference here is. Have you ever driven any of the F10 current competitors Infinity M, A6, GS or E-Class ? I can bet money you have not; otherwise you would have known how deeply wrong you are. F10 interior fit, finish and materials are the best in its class (by many car magazines).

I might get burned at the stake but, just wanted to say that I agree with you. I haven't driven the 5 series but spent a bit of time in one at an autoshow & dealer. What stood out to me was the fit and finish of the f10 and f30 over its competitors (a6, eclass).
Personally I don't know what the OP expected out of the f10, of course its not going to drive like a gokart.
The comment "interior feels like garbage" seems like an attempt to stir the pot to me. But hey, to each their own.

[Dafttt]

Can't wait to read TheSt|g's response! hehe.

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

I am not the target demographic.

Most of us here on the boards now fall into this category - BMW is doing exceptionally well in overall sales, but their target demographic has shifted from the driving enthusiast to the mainstream car buyer market (both SUV and sedan), i.e, the folks who think an accord handles really well. When you come to BMW from a Camry, Avalon, Lexus ES etc, I bet the 528 handling does feel great.

I hope that the upcoming 2 series and M2 in particular bring back the spark in the BMW driving experience. If not, my 135is will be in the garage for a very long time, or maybe I'll start looking backwards towards the E46 M3

[COBodom]

Originally Posted by Bama335

Most of us here on the boards now fall into this category - BMW is doing exceptionally well in overall sales, but their target demographic has shifted from the driving enthusiast to the mainstream car buyer market (both SUV and sedan), i.e, the folks who think an accord handles really well. When you come to BMW from a Camry, Avalon, Lexus ES etc, I bet the 528 handling does feel great.

I hope that the upcoming 2 series and M2 in particular bring back the spark in the BMW driving experience. If not, my 135is will be in the garage for a very long time, or maybe I'll start looking backwards towards the E46 M3

F10, sharing the platform with the 7 series is no longer a sports sedan but rather a luxury, sporty cruiser.

Unfortunately, to get proper handling (e60-ish), regardless of the engine, F10 now requires ARS (no longer available with N20) + DDC = DHP. Some prefer N20 to N55 because the front of the car is lighter (not necessarily my opinion).

The road feel, due to the electric steering is also different from E60 (but not at zero feedback). Basically whoever drove cars with electric steering will find the feel similar across the board. Some changes for 2014 though.

I came out of B8 S4 and can definitely say the 5 series doesn't drive/handle like a nimble go-kart, but that's not the purpose of the 5 anyways.

[COBodom]

Originally Posted by Daft Auto

Can't wait to read TheSt|g's response! hehe.

[COBodom]

Originally Posted by thehalcyon

I might get burned at the stake but, just wanted to say that I agree with you. I haven't driven the 5 series but spent a bit of time in one at an autoshow & dealer. What stood out to me was the fit and finish of the f10 and f30 over its competitors (a6, eclass).
Personally I don't know what the OP expected out of the f10, of course its not going to drive like a gokart.
The comment "interior feels like garbage" seems like an attempt to stir the pot to me. But hey, to each their own.

+1 Exactly my thoughts on the F10 interior.

I test drove all of them back to back (A6,M,GS,E) none of them has interior that is so nicely executed, classy and yet modern.

A6 - materials feel cheaper, thin seats, no attention to details (no contrast stitching).
M - mini star trek, tasteless Nissan design that doesn't belong in this league.
GS - prolly the best out of them. Yet seats are subpar compared to F10.
E - dated, feels like its overdue for a major redesign.