turbo lag

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by SixBanger

After bringin the car back for the 3rd time for laggy acceleration this is what they did:

4401 West Sample Road
Coconut Creek, Fl. 33073

Job #4
PROBLEM D CLIENT STATES WHEN ACCELERATING THE CAR FEELS LIKE IT LAGS
1161550 REMOVED AND INSTALLED INTAKE MANIF (N/C)
1 11-61-7-547-242 SET OF PROFILE GASKET (N/C)
1199000 CARBON BLAST AS PER PUMA (N/C)
0000556 PERFORMING VEHICLE TEST (N/C)
43416
CARBON BUILD-UP ON VALVES
ROAD TEST VEHICLE. WAS ABLE TO DUPLICATE CONCERN. HOOK UP TO ISID AND
CHECK FAULT MEMORY. NO RELATIVE FAULT PRESENT. REMOVE INTAKE MANIFOLD
(OP#11-61-050) AND INSPECT INTAKE PORTS AND VALVES. FOUND EXCESSIVE
CARBON BUILD UP IN PORTS. SUBMIT PUMA CASE#: PERFORM INTAKE
PORT CLEANING PROCEEDURE (OP#11-99-000) AS PER PUMA. DEFECT CODE
11-34-00-76-00. REASSEMBLE AFTER PORT CLEANING AND ROAD TEST. VEHICLE
PERFORMING PROPERLY AFTER REPAIR

Job #6
PROBLEM F PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS VEHICLE THROUGH THE CAR WASH.THE CUSTOMER HA
NOWASH2 PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS VEHICLE THR (N/C)

Did it fix it. Not really : (

Like I first posted (#2 in this thread)... your car has the new SW with "added lag" and anti-tuner software. Only way to fix that is with new SW that gets rid of the "lag" like a PPK1 or an aftermarket flash tune like Giac/Cobb, ect...

Do you have to push at least HALF WAY down on the gas pedal to get the same cracking blistering acceleration you did before at just 1/4 throttle? You have the new BMW "turbo lag" SW installed. BMW is doing this to counter HPFP problems and customer buybacks for ticking noises and WG rattles. Only way to get your old performance is with new SW.

At least you had BMW clean off all the carbon off your intake valves!

[foghat]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Like I first posted (#2 in this thread)... your car has the new SW with "added lag" and anti-tuner software. Only way to fix that is with new SW that gets rid of the "lag" like a PPK1 or an aftermarket flash tune like Giac/Cobb, ect...

Do you have to push at least HALF WAY down on the gas pedal to get the same cracking blistering acceleration you did before at just 1/4 throttle? You have the new BMW "turbo lag" SW installed. BMW is doing this to counter HPFP problems and customer buybacks for ticking noises and WG rattles. Only way to get your old performance is with new SW.

At least you had BMW clean off all the carbon off your intake valves!

Would jb4 fix this issue as well? I know it is now a flash, but....

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by foghat

Would jb4 fix this issue as well? I know it is now a flash, but....

Some say yes. Then some said no. I am not sure. When BMW first came out with this "SW with the lag"... a lot of guys said their JB3 ran better. But IDK.

Personally, a true SW flash tune is the way to go - w/o tricking the engine into running higher boost.

[Ash83]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

When you say: "bmw software" do you mean the update with the added lag?

IF that is the case I would get a PPK1 or tune to fix that. Then I would ditch the OE mid pipes for the N55 catless mids(IF your car is a N54 - as I assume). ?

BMW Software with lag!!!

do you mean the one that dropped the power at lower RPM to reduce HPFP issues?

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Ash83

BMW Software with lag!!!

do you mean the one that dropped the power at lower RPM to reduce HPFP issues?

Yes. There are sooo many threads on this. Here is a mega one over on the e90 forum. It effects both N54 and N55's.

Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by SixBanger

After bringin the car back for the 3rd time for laggy acceleration this is what they did:

4401 West Sample Road
Coconut Creek, Fl. 33073

Job #4
PROBLEM D CLIENT STATES WHEN ACCELERATING THE CAR FEELS LIKE IT LAGS
1161550 REMOVED AND INSTALLED INTAKE MANIF (N/C)
1 11-61-7-547-242 SET OF PROFILE GASKET (N/C)
1199000 CARBON BLAST AS PER PUMA (N/C)
0000556 PERFORMING VEHICLE TEST (N/C)
43416
CARBON BUILD-UP ON VALVES
ROAD TEST VEHICLE. WAS ABLE TO DUPLICATE CONCERN. HOOK UP TO ISID AND
CHECK FAULT MEMORY. NO RELATIVE FAULT PRESENT. REMOVE INTAKE MANIFOLD
(OP#11-61-050) AND INSPECT INTAKE PORTS AND VALVES. FOUND EXCESSIVE
CARBON BUILD UP IN PORTS. SUBMIT PUMA CASE#: PERFORM INTAKE
PORT CLEANING PROCEEDURE (OP#11-99-000) AS PER PUMA. DEFECT CODE
11-34-00-76-00. REASSEMBLE AFTER PORT CLEANING AND ROAD TEST. VEHICLE
PERFORMING PROPERLY AFTER REPAIR

Job #6
PROBLEM F PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS VEHICLE THROUGH THE CAR WASH.THE CUSTOMER HA
NOWASH2 PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS VEHICLE THR (N/C)

Did it fix it. Not really : (

At least they cleaned the carbon off the intake valves. Was this Vista?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by cadeucsb

Not disagreeing but most of these posts are the same...Claims a certain side of an argument without any reference. What tests are you referring to? Assessing the gains of a DCI is almost impossible. A dyno on a stationary car is a meaningless test in this scenario.

I deal with fluid flows every day. A DCI is a poor execution for a problem that isnt actually there. It goes against everything I understand about efficiencies in a thermodynamic system.

[Freon]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I deal with fluid flows every day. A DCI is a poor execution for a problem that isnt actually there. It goes against everything I understand about efficiencies in a thermodynamic system.

Appeal to authority and hand waving. Great job.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Freon

Appeal to authority and hand waving. Great job.

Look buddy. I stepped off an 8 hour flight not to long ago and I'm running on 3 hours sleep. If you want something more detailed I'll be happy to get it to you tomorrow, but tonight you get to wait.

Also no need to be a dick. I've spoken many times on DCIs to exhaustion and the information is out there. But again, I'm tired so you can do the research yourself instead of relying on a forum to do it for you

[hxman]

The PPK1 did not resolve the lag issue on my N55.......

[cadeucsb]

Originally Posted by Freon

Appeal to authority and hand waving. Great job.

+1 ....not really a test or any kind of validation to the claim.

I read a lot about gas flow efficiencies on the internet and what you said goes against all that reading, so I say a DCI is beneficial. --see how it sounds?

Again, not saying your claims are impossible, and I am open to any/all ideas. I just don't like claims either direction without anything to back the claim. If you have actual testing/proof, maybe dont post without it (as you see how claims like that are received). Telling people to back your claims on their own is silly and weak.

[Wibbles]

Originally Posted by hxman

The PPK1 did not resolve the lag issue on my N55.......

I'm in the same boat, still got the lag after having the PPK fitted last week to my 2010 N55

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by wibbles

I'm in the same boat, still got the lag after having the PPK fitted last week to my 2010 N55

You two guys are the first people that seem not to be happy with the PPK1 after getting the "lag SW update". Everyone else has been happy with the outcome. Maybe your cars have some other issue? What did your dealer(s) say after you got the PPK1 SW ?


I would start off by changing your spark plugs. Maybe look at your air filter? Other than those two things... I don't know why several people really liked the way the PPK1 changed the way their car's boosted vs the way they felt post SW update.


Dack

[Ash83]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Yes. There are sooo many threads on this. Here is a mega one over on the e90 forum. It effects both N54 and N55's.

Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781

how do i check the SW version?

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Ash83

how do i check the SW version?

Page one of the 230 page thread. A: Only a dealer can tell you what the SW version number is. Or a indi shop that has a GT1 scan tool.

[Wibbles]

Dack - have you watched the video on the other thread that I posted?

[BrokenVert]

well since you all asked for it heres the explaination. Ive now slept for 13 hours and feel fantastic!

In thermodynamics we give most things in terms of efficiencies. Flow efficiencies, thermo efficiencies (heat transfers), pressure efficiencies, etc... Thats what im going to talk about.

This is a typical DCI configuration



note the open ended intake piping from the kidneys.In the factory system this is connected directly to the filter box.

That exposed end leads to so many inefficiencies in the system, I cant list them all. but here are the main ones.

Without a direct line from the front of the car to the turbos (the turbos in this case sucking air into the intake stream) less clean air from the front of the car will make it to the engine. But, the engione still needs air. So where does it get the rest of it from?

It gets it from underneath the hood. Some people will say fine. air is air, but it really isnt.

For stagnant air underneath the hood is hot. Hot air in an intake stream is bad, as anybody selling an intercooler will attest to.


And thats the main issue with DCIs. You have a drop in total pressure of the system because you shift the source of air from the air ahead of the car, to air under the hood.


Now some people say that at speed that effect is negated because air is sucked in under the hood, and yes the hot air isuuse is lessened.

But that leads to a new problem that again acts to drop the total pressure in the system - roughness.

Roughness is a very bad thing, it adds to drag. And drag may not seem like a big deal in something as small as an intake stream, but thats arguably where a decent flow is most important.

now I really dont feel like doing an N-S analysis of the intake stream. So ill put it in words like the rest of this has been.

By sucking in air from under hood that air has to pass over the engine, the radiator, the shock towers, everything in the engine bay. This will induce vortices and perturbations in the flow field. This, again, acts to reduce the total pressure of the system, inducing drag.

A less efficient system is less capable of delivering air to the engine. This is why DCIs are shown to lose power, with a fan running on the dyno or not. Because the factory intake stream reduces flow instability compared to sucking in air from under the hood.


Could the stock system deal with using a bit more area? Absolutely. Thats why the Dinan and Mr. 5 systems are the way they are <- those two designs are my personal choice.

You can look up the dyno comparisons. I dont feel like searching, but what I said has been mentioned and documents many times in the past.

I just gave you the theory behind why that is (scientific theory - not a shot in the dark theory).

anyway have fun, im going to be enjoying my time off.

[Exite]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Like I first posted (#2 in this thread)... your car has the new SW with "added lag" and anti-tuner software. Only way to fix that is with new SW that gets rid of the "lag" like a PPK1 or an aftermarket flash tune like Giac/Cobb, ect...

Do you have to push at least HALF WAY down on the gas pedal to get the same cracking blistering acceleration you did before at just 1/4 throttle? You have the new BMW "turbo lag" SW installed. BMW is doing this to counter HPFP problems and customer buybacks for ticking noises and WG rattles. Only way to get your old performance is with new SW.

At least you had BMW clean off all the carbon off your intake valves!

This sounds accurate. About 1.5 months ago my car had a turbo replaced and the wastegate was adjusted on one of the turbos. I'm assuming they also updated software because now when starting off to really get the car moving I have to press the gas more than halfway. It almost feels like my old evo where the turbo didn't start making boost until 3300rpm; the evo had real turbo lag. Though on the flip side I'm getting about 27mpg now on hwy at 75mph. The avg consump says 30 on computer but manual calculation is more around 27-28. I really have no issue with the new software, but that's just me.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Exite

This sounds accurate. About 1.5 months ago my car had a turbo replaced and the wastegate was adjusted on one of the turbos. I'm assuming they also updated software because now when starting off to really get the car moving I have to press the gas more than halfway. It almost feels like my old evo where the turbo didn't start making boost until 3300rpm; the evo had real turbo lag. Though on the flip side I'm getting about 27mpg now on hwy at 75mph. The avg consump says 30 on computer but manual calculation is more around 27-28. I really have no issue with the new software, but that's just me.

That is what I noticed too. Basically you have to press MORE THAN half way down on the gas pedal to get the SAME performance as before the SW update. Before the SW you only needed to press down on the throttle 1/4 to get that kind of oomph! That is the "lag" I am talking about.

I also noticed the engine was a whole lot quieter running or staring cold. Less injector noises/rattles. Better fuel economy too. And the exhaust was slightly louder on cruising 40~60 mph. At higher speeds I did not notice the exhaust too much. But at say 40 mph it was way louder than before the SW. Also... on start up the exhaust was a lot quieter. Before when the car would warm up at idle... it was loud for the first few minutes, then you would hear a CLANK and then it would be quiet. After the SW, the exhaust was MUCH quieter on cold start. And also all those lovely crackles and pops on deceleration when you let off the throttle... were gone after the SW update.

Dack

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by wibbles

Dack - have you watched the video on the other thread that I posted?

Link? I not sure I have seen it.

[shodanusmc]

my N54 has been reborn after the PPK1. No lag, better than new.

[SixBanger]

Originally Posted by Pig Farmer

At least they cleaned the carbon off the intake valves. Was this Vista?

yes sir. big difference now that I've really driven the car.