Enough camber?

Phlonx · 06-22-2012, 05:18 AM

I will be ordering a set of Apex EC-7s soon. Want to fit 245/35/18 up front. Wondering if I can achieve enough (-) camber with the pin removal and Dinan (non-adjustable) camber plates. Also installing KW V1s before this happens, plan to have a minimal drop.

What kind of camber is realistic with this set up? I understand about -1.5 is needed to avoid rubbing.

GaryS · 06-22-2012, 05:23 AM

I think you'll get about -1.2 degrees with that setup.

crex · 06-22-2012, 06:41 AM

I'm running the m3 front control arms and had the pins pulled. I was able to get -1.4 degrees.

EFI Logics · 06-22-2012, 07:33 AM

Things are going to be tight. You may have to do a little work to make it a rub free setup.

-Josh

Phlonx · 06-22-2012, 03:52 PM

Everybody recommends m3 control arms as the next camber friendly mod. I'm trying to stay whithin budget so im trying to avoid them, im not tracking the car. But for the heck of it, how much are they? Where to get them, BMW? (part #?)

Any other inexpensive ideas to get just a few more tenths? I really want to fit 245's

funseries · 06-22-2012, 04:00 PM

Lowered 1.5" in the front with the pin pulled and I got -1.2 degrees.. I also want to fit 245s. I think after adding dinan plates or M3 arms it shouldn't be a problem. But if you want to avoid either, fender roll or pull is the next option. Cheaper but has some downsides.

Phlonx · 06-22-2012, 04:49 PM

Im trying to not do any permanent mods to the car, so im trying to stay away front fender rolling as well. Cost effective for sure though.

If u got -1.2 without camber plates, Dinan claims -.7 on top, so thats -1.9 total. Even if its -1.5 it should work for me.

BiscottiGelato · 06-22-2012, 04:59 PM

Why not just go for Ground Control Camber Plates? Probably much over -2 if needed without any lowering or arm changes.

That said, too much camber up front isn't the best thing if u aren't really tracking the thing.

funseries · 06-22-2012, 05:05 PM

Yup I think it's definitely doable even with a mild drop after plates.

Actually by my estimates it might even be doable without plates but I think the tire would rub the strut. So you'd need like a 3 or 5mm spacer.

But then depending on the tire it could run wide, like the Dunlop Star Specs. More neg camber will definitely make it easier.

Eyeman · 06-22-2012, 05:24 PM

Yep, funseries brought up the other big issue, what brand 245 width tire are we talking about. You might can get a Falken or maybe a Toyo or Nitto to work with -1.5 camber but I think it will still rub at times. A wider running 245 up front is pretty difficult even with camber plates and fender work.

Phlonx · 06-22-2012, 07:58 PM

Yes but, the EC-7 has perfect ofset, thats why 245s. Well that's what Paintpro posted that Apex released, we're waiting for pics. There r 2 sizes made specifically for the 1 series, and they r track wheels, so thats the basis for my hunt.

I will be running Conti DWs

Clovef · 06-22-2012, 08:32 PM

Is the front of those wheels 45 offset? Star Specs don't come in a 245 18" so that is not an issue but there 235 is as big as some brands 245. Also, because of the suspension geogrophy in the front lowering the car does not add camber but would put your wheel closer to the fender making you more likely to rub. I am pretty sure you would rub and might with the m3 bits as well on a 245. Just get smaller tires or adjustable camber plates.

bippie999 · 06-24-2012, 09:46 PM

If you change the camber do you also need to adjust toe- in?

Clovef · 06-26-2012, 12:07 AM

Yes, changing camber changes toe. However, it goes in your favor that as you increase negative camber you increase toe out, both of which increase turn in. If you have adjustable camber plates you try to set them so they have max negative camber with your track desired toe out. Then when you mone them in from max negative camber to min negitive camber it moves toe towards zero.

EFI Logics · 06-26-2012, 07:45 AM

If you are looking to run a 245 on all 4 corners then your tire choice is going to be limited and you will have to be cautious of the wheel offset you choose, but it can be done without having to roll the fenders OR add a wheel spacer. Check out my thread here. I think anything beyond a 35 sidewall will cause fitment challenges. I assume you are looking for an extreme performance summer tire, right? If you are willing to step down a class in performance tires then you will have a few more options.

-Josh

chachacha28 · 06-26-2012, 08:26 AM

What pin do you pull for more camber?

mineo77 · 07-01-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiscottiGelato

Why not just go for Ground Control Camber Plates? Probably much over -2 if needed without any lowering or arm changes.

That said, too much camber up front isn't the best thing if u aren't really tracking the thing.

sound advice, enough said. Not sure why you wouldnt just do it right the first go around and get real camber plates. I love em since I have a track set up and a DD set up and is super easy to adjust.

Phlonx · 07-02-2012, 07:32 AM

I'm a little weary of noise. I dont want to introduce any clunking with 'real' camber plates, And I won't be tracking the car. Thats y the Dinan plates seems like the way to go, plus they're cheap.

06-22-2012, 05:18 AM	#1
Phlonx Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 222 Posts Drives: YMB F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (2)	Enough camber? I will be ordering a set of Apex EC-7s soon. Want to fit 245/35/18 up front. Wondering if I can achieve enough (-) camber with the pin removal and Dinan (non-adjustable) camber plates. Also installing KW V1s before this happens, plan to have a minimal drop. What kind of camber is realistic with this set up? I understand about -1.5 is needed to avoid rubbing. __________________ YMB M4, work in progress...
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06-22-2012, 05:23 AM	#2
GaryS Colonel 37 Rep 2,084 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 6MT Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 135i [6.50]	I think you'll get about -1.2 degrees with that setup.
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06-22-2012, 06:41 AM	#3
crex Captain 53 Rep 659 Posts Drives: bmw 135i, Jeep wrangler Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NOVA iTrader: (1)	I'm running the m3 front control arms and had the pins pulled. I was able to get -1.4 degrees.
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06-22-2012, 07:33 AM	#4
EFI Logics 51 Rep 306 Posts Drives: '08 BMW 135i, 08 535Xi Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bethel, CT iTrader: (0)	Things are going to be tight. You may have to do a little work to make it a rub free setup. -Josh
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06-22-2012, 03:52 PM	#5
Phlonx Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 222 Posts Drives: YMB F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (2)	Everybody recommends m3 control arms as the next camber friendly mod. I'm trying to stay whithin budget so im trying to avoid them, im not tracking the car. But for the heck of it, how much are they? Where to get them, BMW? (part #?) Any other inexpensive ideas to get just a few more tenths? I really want to fit 245's __________________ YMB M4, work in progress...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-22-2012, 04:00 PM	#6
funseries Private 6 Rep 96 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	Lowered 1.5" in the front with the pin pulled and I got -1.2 degrees.. I also want to fit 245s. I think after adding dinan plates or M3 arms it shouldn't be a problem. But if you want to avoid either, fender roll or pull is the next option. Cheaper but has some downsides.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-22-2012, 04:49 PM	#7
Phlonx Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 222 Posts Drives: YMB F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (2)	Im trying to not do any permanent mods to the car, so im trying to stay away front fender rolling as well. Cost effective for sure though. If u got -1.2 without camber plates, Dinan claims -.7 on top, so thats -1.9 total. Even if its -1.5 it should work for me. __________________ YMB M4, work in progress...
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06-22-2012, 04:59 PM	#8
BiscottiGelato Captain 88 Rep 812 Posts Drives: 09 135i M Sport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: GVA iTrader: (2)	Why not just go for Ground Control Camber Plates? Probably much over -2 if needed without any lowering or arm changes. That said, too much camber up front isn't the best thing if u aren't really tracking the thing. __________________ Ground Control Camber Plates, Ferrodo D2500 w/ E86 MZ4 2 piece rotors, Dunlop Direzza ZII on Apex EC-7s
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06-22-2012, 05:05 PM	#9
funseries Private 6 Rep 96 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	Yup I think it's definitely doable even with a mild drop after plates. Actually by my estimates it might even be doable without plates but I think the tire would rub the strut. So you'd need like a 3 or 5mm spacer. But then depending on the tire it could run wide, like the Dunlop Star Specs. More neg camber will definitely make it easier.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-22-2012, 05:24 PM	#10
Eyeman Colonel 121 Rep 2,037 Posts Drives: 2008 135 blk, blk, step Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0) Garage List 1994 Porsche 968 Cab [0.00] 2017 AMG GTS [0.00] 1994 Porsche 968 Coupe [0.00] 1977 Mercedes 450SE ... [0.00] 2008 135 [8.00]	Yep, funseries brought up the other big issue, what brand 245 width tire are we talking about. You might can get a Falken or maybe a Toyo or Nitto to work with -1.5 camber but I think it will still rub at times. A wider running 245 up front is pretty difficult even with camber plates and fender work. __________________ Injen, RR OCC, MadDad Whisper, donut spare, 19x8.5et43fr 19x9.5et45r Volk LE37's, rear fenders rolled/pulled, PSS4S 225/35fr 255/30r, KW V1's, AR coated catless dps, Cross strutbar, CF grills and license plate holder, iCarbon diffuser, ETS black anodized FMIC, M3 control arms, Quaife, ER chargepipe, ForgeDV's, Topspeed Custom Tune, V3sims, Braille, Andrey_GTA rear hub mod, Ebay Mstyle front bumper and performance style side skirts.
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06-22-2012, 07:58 PM	#11
Phlonx Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 222 Posts Drives: YMB F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (2)	Yes but, the EC-7 has perfect ofset, thats why 245s. Well that's what Paintpro posted that Apex released, we're waiting for pics. There r 2 sizes made specifically for the 1 series, and they r track wheels, so thats the basis for my hunt. I will be running Conti DWs __________________ YMB M4, work in progress...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-22-2012, 08:32 PM	#12
Clovef First Lieutenant 33 Rep 332 Posts Drives: 2011 135i DCT Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Earth iTrader: (1)	Is the front of those wheels 45 offset? Star Specs don't come in a 245 18" so that is not an issue but there 235 is as big as some brands 245. Also, because of the suspension geogrophy in the front lowering the car does not add camber but would put your wheel closer to the fender making you more likely to rub. I am pretty sure you would rub and might with the m3 bits as well on a 245. Just get smaller tires or adjustable camber plates. __________________ 2011 BMW 135i DCT M Sport, black sapphire metallic,Coral red tint, black line tail lights, back grils, BMW Performance spoiler, Apex ARC8, 235/265 Dunlop ZIIs, Ohlins coilovers w/ Swift springs, M3 front bits, Whiteline rear sub frame bushings, Vorshlag camber plates, Stoptech pads, stud conversion, spacers, bms intake
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06-24-2012, 09:46 PM	#13
bippie999 The One 10 Rep 61 Posts Drives: 2008 m135i coupe sport package Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Traverse City, Michigan iTrader: (0)	If you change the camber do you also need to adjust toe- in? __________________ 2008 135i coupe w/Sport Package, aFe cold air, TC Kline DA suspension/Camber plates. AA Charge pipe/BOV, cat-less Downpipes, and AA FMIC. SuperSprint mid-pipes, Cobb V3 AP, and Corsa muffler, Wavetrac LSD, M3 contol arms and bushings + RSFB, Rear Toe-control arms, Front and rear H&R sway bars, shock tower brace, Hawk track pads, Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Enkei wheels.
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06-26-2012, 12:07 AM	#14
Clovef First Lieutenant 33 Rep 332 Posts Drives: 2011 135i DCT Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Earth iTrader: (1)	Yes, changing camber changes toe. However, it goes in your favor that as you increase negative camber you increase toe out, both of which increase turn in. If you have adjustable camber plates you try to set them so they have max negative camber with your track desired toe out. Then when you mone them in from max negative camber to min negitive camber it moves toe towards zero. __________________ 2011 BMW 135i DCT M Sport, black sapphire metallic,Coral red tint, black line tail lights, back grils, BMW Performance spoiler, Apex ARC8, 235/265 Dunlop ZIIs, Ohlins coilovers w/ Swift springs, M3 front bits, Whiteline rear sub frame bushings, Vorshlag camber plates, Stoptech pads, stud conversion, spacers, bms intake
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06-26-2012, 07:45 AM	#15
EFI Logics 51 Rep 306 Posts Drives: '08 BMW 135i, 08 535Xi Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bethel, CT iTrader: (0)	If you are looking to run a 245 on all 4 corners then your tire choice is going to be limited and you will have to be cautious of the wheel offset you choose, but it can be done without having to roll the fenders OR add a wheel spacer. Check out my thread here. I think anything beyond a 35 sidewall will cause fitment challenges. I assume you are looking for an extreme performance summer tire, right? If you are willing to step down a class in performance tires then you will have a few more options. -Josh
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06-26-2012, 08:26 AM	#16
chachacha28 NCOIC of Kickin It 78 Rep 946 Posts Drives: 08 135i "Simona" Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Great Falls MT iTrader: (1)	What pin do you pull for more camber?
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07-02-2012, 07:32 AM	#18
Phlonx Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 222 Posts Drives: YMB F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (2)	I'm a little weary of noise. I dont want to introduce any clunking with 'real' camber plates, And I won't be tracking the car. Thats y the Dinan plates seems like the way to go, plus they're cheap. __________________ YMB M4, work in progress...
	Appreciate 0 Quote