Help with Suspension Upgrade to M3 spec

[BMW135pls]

Over the next year or two I want to convert my 135i suspension to M3 spec. In the near future I am going to do RSFB and F/R Control Arms, and maybe next year I will do sway bars, shocks, springs etc. The problem is I really don't have much experience with modding cars, I'm not a car mechanic, and a lot of the terms thrown around are just adding more questions.

So my first question before anything more specific is discussed, is it worth it buying the BMW branded parts over the "M3" spec non-branded stuff? I've spent time in other niche industries and there are definitely a lot of cases where the non-branded stuff is the exact experience if not 99.7% of the way there, and at greatly reduced price. Is this the case with the non-BMW M3 suspension upgrades, or should I actually buy the BMW parts if I want a true M-spec car?

[BMW135pls]

Now onto specifics, the RSFB upgrade. Apparently I will need two of these:

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135...frame/ES57295/

And two of these:

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135...frame/ES57320/

But then there is also this kit, that comes with more stuff in it:

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135...ame/ES2538694/

Do I need any of that extra stuff, or are those extra parts things that will come as part of the Control Arm upgrade?

[Ski Killset]

I have the TRW stuff. It is literally the same part. They grind off the //M logo, and poorly. One of my arms you could still see the //M but it was ground down. Why anyone would pay mor for the same part blows my mind.

And yes get the install kit, the bolts need to be replaced

[ShocknAwe]

If you're speaking about the TRW parts vs ///M branded parts, the TRW are the same parts just with the logo ground off for sales purposes.

Check out Fe1rx's threads on components. It should help you decide what pieces to get and which to skip.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1094111

Also, keep in mind that just because a retailer says "///M bushing package," that package may include bushings that are already used on your car. For example, the RTABs on the M3/1M are the same as on the 135i.

[BMW135pls]

Now the Control Arm upgrade. I would like to know how I should tell the tech to camber it. At this time I don't really plan to do any tracking with my car, so probably nothing extreme, but the M3 arms allow some extra room, so why not stretch its wings a bit? c:

[chris82]

Buy the non-branded M3 parts, they're the same, they just have the M logo removed.

[E82MSport]

Other than upgrading to upgrade, can you tell us the 'why's' so that people here can better answer these tabled questions?

Implying you want to upgrade or convert to M-spec could mean as in depth as a full 1M conversion or just changing out specific parts that are compatible with the E82 platform.

Because you've referenced RSFB I'll note that many people here have provided excellent reviews of the 1M/M3 replacement parts. With a little searching you will find this topic has been discussed at great length. A worthy upgrade but at a high cost of installation vs inserts or a Powerflex type of replacement. Note that full bushing replacement can require a special tool dependent on the level of DIY'er you are. Based on your post I'm guessing you would have these parts installed. M3 bushings are a vast improvement - inserts are the in-between from stock and M3 - Powerflex offers levels of bushing stiffness depending on you liking.

M3 front control arm replacement - another good modification especially if you need additional front camber (advertised -.7 negative camber). This can actually be achieved with just replacing the wishbones rather than the whole kit but lacks the difference in bushing type. As someone noted earlier see the thread sticky'ed from fe1rx to better explain the advantages or disadvantages. Lastly is brand - TRW from a cost standpoint and noted by others they are the same parts.

My questions I've asked myself are..
1. what do I want to improve and why
2. should I compromise because I daily drive this vehicle
3. how much do I want to spend vs the return on my investment
4. what changes will yield the most improvement

In my situation I track my 1er a few times a year and would like improved performance in terms of handling as well as daily comfort. I've broken down all the areas I feel need improvement and systematically researched what's needed to change in order to achieve my goals.

This platform is quite good out of the box but with calculated part changes it has the potential to be as good as the 1M without the investment. I've chosen the opposite of most - car has plenty of power but lacks in terms of handling and grip. I've invested in proper suspension for me(although a little trial-by-error) and have worked through the issues with a lot of help here on the forum.

[BMW135pls]

Oh crap, now I have to actually think. I looked over the suspension upgrade thread linked, and unfortunately a lot of the terminology is above my experience level. Wishbone, that's part of a chicken right? Well the jist I'm getting from what I can actually understand is that maybe the M3 upgrade suspension parts aren't all straight upgrades? Some actually result in a softer suspension feel? Maybe it's softer in a good way?

Originally Posted by E82MSport

Other than upgrading to upgrade, can you tell us the 'why's' so that people here can better answer these tabled questions?

Implying you want to upgrade or convert to M-spec could mean as in depth as a full 1M conversion or just changing out specific parts that are compatible with the E82 platform.

Because you've referenced RSFB I'll note that many people here have provided excellent reviews of the 1M/M3 replacement parts. With a little searching you will find this topic has been discussed at great length. A worthy upgrade but at a high cost of installation vs inserts or a Powerflex type of replacement. Note that full bushing replacement can require a special tool dependent on the level of DIY'er you are. Based on your post I'm guessing you would have these parts installed. M3 bushings are a vast improvement - inserts are the in-between from stock and M3 - Powerflex offers levels of bushing stiffness depending on you liking.

M3 front control arm replacement - another good modification especially if you need additional front camber (advertised -.7 negative camber). This can actually be achieved with just replacing the wishbones rather than the whole kit but lacks the difference in bushing type. As someone noted earlier see the thread sticky'ed from fe1rx to better explain the advantages or disadvantages. Lastly is brand - TRW from a cost standpoint and noted by others they are the same parts.

My questions I've asked myself are..
1. what do I want to improve and why
2. should I compromise because I daily drive this vehicle
3. how much do I want to spend vs the return on my investment
4. what changes will yield the most improvement

In my situation I track my 1er a few times a year and would like improved performance in terms of handling as well as daily comfort. I've broken down all the areas I feel need improvement and systematically researched what's needed to change in order to achieve my goals.

This platform is quite good out of the box but with calculated part changes it has the potential to be as good as the 1M without the investment. I've chosen the opposite of most - car has plenty of power but lacks in terms of handling and grip. I've invested in proper suspension for me(although a little trial-by-error) and have worked through the issues with a lot of help here on the forum.

To answer your question, yes partly upgrading for the sake of upgrading, that's partly just how I am, and also because this is kind of my dream car, so I'm living the dream. Aside from that, I want the car to be firmer, more planted, and more confident putting its power down and managing lateral forces in turns with less sway.

I made the change from RFTs to NRFTs and now find that although the ride quality is greatly improved, the suspension feel is a bit too soft and the car lacks confidence in putting down its own power. I was going to systematically swap out the suspension parts for ///M parts so I could have a pseudo M car, but if they're not all the improvement I thought they would be, I guess I'll have to get more choosy with what I change.

[lazyd0c]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

If you're speaking about the TRW parts vs ///M branded parts, the TRW are the same parts just with the logo ground off for sales purposes.

Check out Fe1rx's threads on components. It should help you decide what pieces to get and which to skip.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1094111

Also, keep in mind that just because a retailer says "///M bushing package," that package may include bushings that are already used on your car. For example, the RTABs on the M3/1M are the same as on the 135i.

You brought up a good point that some bushings used are already on the 1 series. So what exactly is the advantage of this ECS kit that includes the following?? Versus just buying the RSFB (front and rear pieces)

4 Trailing arm bushings
2 Outer camber link bushings
4 Rear subframe bushings (front and rear location)
2 Inner camber link bushings

[John_01]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Also, keep in mind that just because a retailer says "///M bushing package," that package may include bushings that are already used on your car. For example, the RTABs on the M3/1M are the same as on the 135i.

True. At least for the lower camber link bushings, you will already find exactly the same ones (inner and outer) on a stock E82 coupe - I checked that on realoem.com website a few days ago. There's no need to buy the full ECS kit unless your car has a done a lot of miles. The M3 subframe bushings are the most necessary ones. The front arms will make a noticeable difference to steering feel as well.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by lazyd0c

You brought up a good point that some bushings used are already on the 1 series. So what exactly is the advantage of this ECS kit that includes the following?? Versus just buying the RSFB (front and rear pieces)

4 Trailing arm bushings
2 Outer camber link bushings
4 Rear subframe bushings (front and rear location)
2 Inner camber link bushings

Best thing to do would be to read through fe1rx's posts thoroughly, he did all the work and testing to see exactly what the differences were. There aren't many. It's mostly marketing.

I would buy the RSFBs separately and go from there.

[chris82]

You definitely want to get that M3 rear camber link. That way, you can utilize a rod-end style shock back there which is superior to the style that fits in the big rubber saddle in the OEM camber link. Keep in mind that you'll have to find a suspension company that is willing to sell you 2 front Non-M struts, and 2 rear M style shocks.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by chris82

You definitely want to get that M3 rear camber link. That way, you can utilize a rod-end style shock back there which is superior to the OEM camber link where the shock sits in that rubber saddle. Keep in mind that you'll have to find a suspension company that is willing to sell you 2 front Non-M struts, and 2 rear M style shocks.

HPA sells a kit to do just that:

http://www.hpashop.com/Koni-Sport-St...nv-e82-e9x.htm

And the arms:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-Re...ink-e9x-m3.htm

[chris82]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

HPA sells a kit to do just that:

http://www.hpashop.com/Koni-Sport-St...nv-e82-e9x.htm

And the arms:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-Re...ink-e9x-m3.htm

Nice teamwork!

[ilikebmxbikes]

If you really want to do it, buy complete subframes off a salvage m3 dct and get a 1m driveshaft.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by E82MSport

My questions I've asked myself are..
1. what do I want to improve and why
2. should I compromise because I daily drive this vehicle
3. how much do I want to spend vs the return on my investment
4. what changes will yield the most improvement

Amen to this, it's easy to feel like you have to upgrade things when in reality you often really just don't.

[E82MSport]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Amen to this, it's easy to feel like you have to upgrade things when in reality you often really just don't.

I often find reality is different than the perceived results of what most people post. Most people read these forums and tend to follow the lead of popular discussion, which usually is good but without further investigation might not be what they are looking for.

My advise should be taken with a grain of salt. I've posted questions without doing the needed research in order to gain the knowledge. The moment I've convinced myself I've got the solution, along comes another person with better info that contradicts my decisions. Nothing gained by not asking questions.

There are lots of knowledgeable people on this forum that have 'been there, done that'. It's your job to decipher the good from the bad... so to speak..

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by Ski Killset

And yes get the install kit, the bolts need to be replaced

I don't see a "kit" for anything else besides the marked up BMW branded stuff. They're also out of stock of the TRW RSFB bushings it seems because I can't find them, so maybe they're also just out of the kits as well?

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

I don't see a "kit" for anything else besides the marked up BMW branded stuff. They're also out of stock of the TRW RSFB bushings it seems because I can't find them, so maybe they're also just out of the kits as well?

TRW makes RSF bushings? I was only aware of the M3 suspension parts they make, I did not know they made bushings as well.

[RCNBob]

For less money than the M3 RSFB, you can get the Whiteline kit (KDT917), which gets consistently good reviews for less money, and installs easier being a two piece bushing.

[Ski Killset]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

I don't see a "kit" for anything else besides the marked up BMW branded stuff. They're also out of stock of the TRW RSFB bushings it seems because I can't find them, so maybe they're also just out of the kits as well?

The install "kit" has new bolts and washers and clips in it.

[BMW135pls]

I just got the RSFB in the mail, but I fear that they may look like they are previously used? I bought the genuine BMW parts kit from ECS for full price, no indication of items being used. They say BMW, they have the ///M badge, but I'm wondering if these scratch/wear marks are the result of the production process, or from wear and tear?