Suspension advice

[2008e92328i]

I just got a 2009 128i base model. The car is very tight and feels very solid. However, the base suspension is floaty in my opinion. I want to greatly reduce body roll and make the car flat when cornering hard. My friend has older 2005-2007 545i with sport package and I think he said the car has hydraulic sway bars. Honestly, his car "handles" better than mine.
I need some advice on coilovers. I really would like ohlins road and track, but it's out of my price range. Are there any decent coilovers that won't be too harsh for the street that are built well and won't need rebuilding every 30k miles? Originally, I was looking at B12 setup, but I don't like the look (front is way lower than the rear) and I've read horror stories about them lasting about 30k miles. Can I improve the handling of my car for around $1000-$1300?

[BikeNHV]

I think you can make a significant improvement within that budget.

As far as springs/shocks, even a stock M-Sport suspension is an upgrade from what you have. Personally I wouldn't jump all the way to coilovers just yet.

The rear subframe bushings are a major weak point that cause a "floaty" feeling. This can be solved with upgraded bushings (M3 bushings are popular) or bushing inserts.

I think most would agree that swaybars are not the primary place to look. Your base car is just like mine, small front bar (not sure the size, but smaller than the M Sport bar) and no rear bar. However, be careful going too big on the rear bar. Its debatable if even having a rear bar at all helps or hurts.
Note you do need to slightly lower the subframe to install a rear bar.

I'm assuming the runflat tires are already gone. If not, ditch them for better tires.

[Thunderguts]

I may be in the minority, but I didn’t really consider coilovers for my 128i. I’ve had good coilovers in the past and I’m just not sure they’re worth the extra cost. I think I adjusted them maybe 3 times in the 10 years I had them, including the initial setup. You can get great performance from a set of Swift springs and some Konis for a reasonable cost.

I still think about the Ohlins, and I may upgrade someday, but you certainly don’t need to spend that much for excellent handling.

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by BikeNHV

I think you can make a significant improvement within that budget.

As far as springs/shocks, even a stock M-Sport suspension is an upgrade from what you have. Personally I wouldn't jump all the way to coilovers just yet.

The rear subframe bushings are a major weak point that cause a "floaty" feeling. This can be solved with upgraded bushings (M3 bushings are popular) or bushing inserts.

I think most would agree that swaybars are not the primary place to look. Your base car is just like mine, small front bar (not sure the size, but smaller than the M Sport bar) and no rear bar. However, be careful going too big on the rear bar. Its debatable if even having a rear bar at all helps or hurts.
Note you do need to slightly lower the subframe to install a rear bar.

I'm assuming the runflat tires are already gone. If not, ditch them for better tires.

Originally Posted by BikeNHV

I think you can make a significant improvement within that budget.

As far as springs/shocks, even a stock M-Sport suspension is an upgrade from what you have. Personally I wouldn't jump all the way to coilovers just yet.

The rear subframe bushings are a major weak point that cause a "floaty" feeling. This can be solved with upgraded bushings (M3 bushings are popular) or bushing inserts.

I think most would agree that swaybars are not the primary place to look. Your base car is just like mine, small front bar (not sure the size, but smaller than the M Sport bar) and no rear bar. However, be careful going too big on the rear bar. Its debatable if even having a rear bar at all helps or hurts.
Note you do need to slightly lower the subframe to install a rear bar.

I'm assuming the runflat tires are already gone. If not, ditch them for better tires.

Thank you for your input. I did some more digging last night, and some people say if you want to get rid off body roll, you install a anti roll bar (not sure if it's the same as sway bar). If you want to get rid of bounce, you get stiffer suspension. I'm just not sure if I want to buy $1000 coilovers and they turn out to make my car handle worse. I'm not looking to slam my car, just a little drop and improved handling with as little roll as possible what I'm after

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

I may be in the minority, but I didn't really consider coilovers for my 128i. I've had good coilovers in the past and I'm just not sure they're worth the extra cost. I think I adjusted them maybe 3 times in the 10 years I had them, including the initial setup. You can get great performance from a set of Swift springs and some Konis for a reasonable cost.

I still think about the Ohlins, and I may upgrade someday, but you certainly don't need to spend that much for excellent handling.

Originally Posted by BikeNHV

I think you can make a significant improvement within that budget.

As far as springs/shocks, even a stock M-Sport suspension is an upgrade from what you have. Personally I wouldn't jump all the way to coilovers just yet.

The rear subframe bushings are a major weak point that cause a "floaty" feeling. This can be solved with upgraded bushings (M3 bushings are popular) or bushing inserts.

I think most would agree that swaybars are not the primary place to look. Your base car is just like mine, small front bar (not sure the size, but smaller than the M Sport bar) and no rear bar. However, be careful going too big on the rear bar. Its debatable if even having a rear bar at all helps or hurts.
Note you do need to slightly lower the subframe to install a rear bar.

I'm assuming the runflat tires are already gone. If not, ditch them for better tires.

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

I may be in the minority, but I didn't really consider coilovers for my 128i. I've had good coilovers in the past and I'm just not sure they're worth the extra cost. I think I adjusted them maybe 3 times in the 10 years I had them, including the initial setup. You can get great performance from a set of Swift springs and some Konis for a reasonable cost.

I still think about the Ohlins, and I may upgrade someday, but you certainly don't need to spend that much for excellent handling.

I plan on doing the whole suspension overhaul in due time, but I'd like to start with coilovers. I don't want to keep buying parts and having them replaced every year or two(just wondering if there are "good" coilovers" for around my budget)
Thanks for your input

[Petro135]

I was reading about these the other day. Seems like a good deal.
https://www.vividracing.com/truhart-...152809242.html

[Thunderguts]

This is a pretty good read...

https://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/10...ndling-machine

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by Petro135

I was reading about these the other day. Seems like a good deal.
https://www.vividracing.com/truhart-...152809242.html

Originally Posted by Petro135

I was reading about these the other day. Seems like a good deal.
https://www.vividracing.com/truhart-...152809242.html

Thank you for sharing that link. I'm just worried about reliability of them. One thing I want to avoid is having suspension go bad every year or two

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

This is a pretty good read...

https://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/10...ndling-machine

Originally Posted by Petro135

I was reading about these the other day. Seems like a good deal.
https://www.vividracing.com/truhart-...152809242.html

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

This is a pretty good read...

https://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/10...ndling-machine

Great read, thanks. Seems like, he only did M3 rear bushings with Koni struts and 350/500 springs. If I don't find anything I like, I'll just wait a little longer and just get ohlins. My main goal is to make my car handle the best way it can

[Thunderguts]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

Great read, thanks. Seems like, he only did M3 rear bushings with Koni struts and 350/500 springs. If I don't find anything I like, I'll just wait a little longer and just get ohlins. My main goal is to make my car handle the best way it can

TCK has kits ranging from $1k to $4k depending on how extreme you want to get. I have no experience with them and they aren't as popular as some kits so I don't know how many people have tried them. They definitely look high quality though.

https://www.tcklineracing.com/index....y&Category=205

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

TCK has kits ranging from $1k to $4k depending on how extreme you want to get. I have no experience with them and they aren't as popular as some kits so I don't know how many people have tried them. They definitely look high quality though.

https://www.tcklineracing.com/index....8;Category=205

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

TCK has kits ranging from $1k to $4k depending on how extreme you want to get. I have no experience with them and they aren't as popular as some kits so I don't know how many people have tried them. They definitely look high quality though.

https://www.tcklineracing.com/index....8;Category=205

I have heard bad things about Koni struts/shocks that's why I'm hesitant to go with spring and strut combo

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

I have heard bad things about Koni struts/shocks that's why I'm hesitant to go with spring and strut combo

I'm not sure what "bad things" you heard about, but just keep in mind that if you want to find anything bad about any product, you'll find it if you're looking. I can't really think of a single vendor that would not have a "bad" review or experience...

Koni and Bilstein have been around a long time, and have been used by enthusiasts for years. You'll find "bad things" written about both, but the truth is they are generally a quality product. Sure, you can blow either of them out, you might run into a defective part - who knows, you can never tell really.

But to just discount an entire brand, especially one that is as large as Koni, seems like a rash move.

Your mileage may vary, just my 2 cents...

[PcarDefector]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

I have heard bad things about Koni struts/shocks that's why I'm hesitant to go with spring and strut combo

I'm running Bilstein B6 and BMWPS T2/T3 at 160F/420R#. On the street, it's nicely firm with a compliant ride and not too low. it's dropped about 1/2" from the Msport which is 1/2" lower than stock.

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by asbrr

I'm not sure what "bad things" you heard about, but just keep in mind that if you want to find anything bad about any product, you'll find it if you're looking. I can't really think of a single vendor that would not have a "bad" review or experience...

Koni and Bilstein have been around a long time, and have been used by enthusiasts for years. You'll find "bad things" written about both, but the truth is they are generally a quality product. Sure, you can blow either of them out, you might run into a defective part - who knows, you can never tell really.

But to just discount an entire brand, especially one that is as large as Koni, seems like a rash move.

Your mileage may vary, just my 2 cents...

Originally Posted by asbrr

I'm not sure what "bad things" you heard about, but just keep in mind that if you want to find anything bad about any product, you'll find it if you're looking. I can't really think of a single vendor that would not have a "bad" review or experience...

Koni and Bilstein have been around a long time, and have been used by enthusiasts for years. You'll find "bad things" written about both, but the truth is they are generally a quality product. Sure, you can blow either of them out, you might run into a defective part - who knows, you can never tell really.

But to just discount an entire brand, especially one that is as large as Koni, seems like a rash move.

Your mileage may vary, just my 2 cents...

I just don't want to replace them every 30k miles. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying I've read reviews where they blow after 15-30k. That's what scares me from purchasing them

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

I just don't want to replace them every 30k miles. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying I've read reviews where they blow after 15-30k. That's what scares me from purchasing them

Okay - I'm just not sure why coilovers would somehow be "tougher" than any spring/strut combo. A coilover is simply a matched spring + strut combo with a sleeve to adjust height, and sometimes damper adjustments.

I can tell you if you get a set of nice coilovers like an Ohlins or similar, and you do your daily drive and lets say you have rough roads in your area, they're probably going to need a rebuild at 40K miles.

I've got a B12 kit on the car for about 100K kms now, the rears are original and functioning normally (so they have 100K kms on them). I blew the 2 front shocks and can almost tell you the 2 or 3 impacts that did that (roads are terrible in my area, especially winter). It took about 60K kms of daily / bad road abuse to get to that point. It was a pain in the ass (you can search my threads) as Bilstein had a supply problem, but they were replaced under warranty.

I'm just saying if you lower the car, and you're going to daily drive it, I don't really see the difference between a "coilover" vs a quality spring+damper set in terms of "longevity".

Certainly, go ahead and get the coils if that's what you want, just don't expect them to last magically longer is all I'm saying....

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by asbrr

Okay - I'm just not sure why coilovers would somehow be "tougher" than any spring/strut combo. A coilover is simply a matched spring + strut combo with a sleeve to adjust height, and sometimes damper adjustments.

I can tell you if you get a set of nice coilovers like an Ohlins or similar, and you do your daily drive and lets say you have rough roads in your area, they're probably going to need a rebuild at 40K miles.

I've got a B12 kit on the car for about 100K kms now, the rears are original and functioning normally (so they have 100K kms on them). I blew the 2 front shocks and can almost tell you the 2 or 3 impacts that did that (roads are terrible in my area, especially winter). It took about 60K kms of daily / bad road abuse to get to that point. It was a pain in the ass (you can search my threads) as Bilstein had a supply problem, but they were replaced under warranty.

I'm just saying if you lower the car, and you're going to daily drive it, I don't really see the difference between a "coilover" vs a quality spring+damper set in terms of "longevity".

Certainly, go ahead and get the coils if that's what you want, just don't expect them to last magically longer is all I'm saying....

Originally Posted by asbrr

Okay - I'm just not sure why coilovers would somehow be "tougher" than any spring/strut combo. A coilover is simply a matched spring + strut combo with a sleeve to adjust height, and sometimes damper adjustments.

I can tell you if you get a set of nice coilovers like an Ohlins or similar, and you do your daily drive and lets say you have rough roads in your area, they're probably going to need a rebuild at 40K miles.

I've got a B12 kit on the car for about 100K kms now, the rears are original and functioning normally (so they have 100K kms on them). I blew the 2 front shocks and can almost tell you the 2 or 3 impacts that did that (roads are terrible in my area, especially winter). It took about 60K kms of daily / bad road abuse to get to that point. It was a pain in the ass (you can search my threads) as Bilstein had a supply problem, but they were replaced under warranty.

I'm just saying if you lower the car, and you're going to daily drive it, I don't really see the difference between a "coilover" vs a quality spring+damper set in terms of "longevity".

Certainly, go ahead and get the coils if that's what you want, just don't expect them to last magically longer is all I'm saying....

I'm thinking coilovers because I can adjust hight. I heard lots of good things about B12 kit, but as you might know, negative reviews are perceived much stronger than positive. Also, I don't particularly like how B12 slams the front of the car. I'd like an even drop all around. I am fine with shocks and springs, just need to find some combo that won't slam the car. My car has base suspension, so the difference would be drastic regardless what I'll end up going with. I will continue to search this forum for other suspension people have done to their cars. There are so many choices out there, it's difficult to choose the "one".

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

I'm thinking coilovers because I can adjust hight. I heard lots of good things about B12 kit, but as you might know, negative reviews are perceived much stronger than positive. Also, I don't particularly like how B12 slams the front of the car. I'd like an even drop all around. I am fine with shocks and springs, just need to find some combo that won't slam the car. My car has base suspension, so the difference would be drastic regardless what I'll end up going with. I will continue to search this forum for other suspension people have done to their cars. There are so many choices out there, it's difficult to choose the "one".

Yep that's fair enough. Note that I installed Dinan camber plates up front with my B12, that helps raise it 5mm at the front. The car sits flat, and is not raked at all. It's by no means slammed....there is almost a 2 finger gap front and rear (maybe 1.5 finger at lowest). See attached.

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by asbrr

Yep that's fair enough. Note that I installed Dinan camber plates up front with my B12, that helps raise it 5mm at the front. The car sits flat, and is not raked at all. It's by no means slammed....there is almost a 2 finger gap front and rear (maybe 1.5 finger at lowest). See attached.

Originally Posted by asbrr

Yep that's fair enough. Note that I installed Dinan camber plates up front with my B12, that helps raise it 5mm at the front. The car sits flat, and is not raked at all. It's by no means slammed....there is almost a 2 finger gap front and rear (maybe 1.5 finger at lowest). See attached.

Your car actually looks good. Do you have a review of them? How do you like them? How does it compare to stock in your opinion?

[gjm120]

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but, if you take advantage of the adjustability of coilovers (ride height, not damping), you are changing suspension geometry. If the change is enough, won't an alignment be necessary?

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by gjm120

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but, if you take advantage of the adjustability of coilovers (ride height, not damping), you are changing suspension geometry. If the change is enough, won't an alignment be necessary?

You're spot on - if you adjust the height in any meaningful / measurable way you really should be checking alignment!

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

Your car actually looks good. Do you have a review of them? How do you like them? How does it compare to stock in your opinion?

Thanks.

Stock M-sport (albeit at 80,000 kms, by no means "blown" shocks, but not brand new) was a bit floaty. Wasn't helped by the shitty stock subframe bushings.

I've written a few reviews but short answer, I like the way the car drives and rides. The pavement here in Toronto is pretty broken up due to frost heave, so the Bilsteins do feel a bit "sharp" over the small sharp bumps, that's very characteristic of Bilsteins in my experience. If the roads in your area are decent they are fantastic, as I really like the body control the provide. They deal with "dips" very well vs the "sharp" impacts which depending on what you want from a daily driver could bother you. I've driven on roads that were "bumpy" but not the broken pavement type bumpy and the suspension feels really well judged.

I've heard Konis (which are also adjustable for dampening) behave a bit nicer on the sharp/broken pavement stuff, and you can dial them back a bit.

[PcarDefector]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

I just got a 2009 128i base model. The car is very tight and feels very solid. However, the base suspension is floaty in my opinion. I want to greatly reduce body roll and make the car flat when cornering hard. My friend has older 2005-2007 545i with sport package and I think he said the car has hydraulic sway bars. Honestly, his car "handles" better than mine.
I need some advice on coilovers. I really would like ohlins road and track, but it's out of my price range. Are there any decent coilovers that won't be too harsh for the street that are built well and won't need rebuilding every 30k miles? Originally, I was looking at B12 setup, but I don't like the look (front is way lower than the rear) and I've read horror stories about them lasting about 30k miles. Can I improve the handling of my car for around $1000-$1300?

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

I'm thinking coilovers because I can adjust hight. I heard lots of good things about B12 kit, but as you might know, negative reviews are perceived much stronger than positive. Also, I don't particularly like how B12 slams the front of the car. I'd like an even drop all around. I am fine with shocks and springs, just need to find some combo that won't slam the car. My car has base suspension, so the difference would be drastic regardless what I'll end up going with. I will continue to search this forum for other suspension people have done to their cars. There are so many choices out there, it's difficult to choose the "one".

Just rereading your criteria, I don't have get a strong sense of what you are looking for. Here's what I could establish:

1. You want to improve handling and reduce body roll when cornering hard.
Comment: Are you referring to street or track use? Fixing roll on the street is easier than for track use.

2. You want reliability beyond 30k miles.
Comment: any of the top tier aftermarket brand will achieve this goal but Bilstein and Koni are the most common in the sub-$1000 range.Plenty of reviews on both in this and other forums.

3. You want the adjustability of coilovers but have a budget around $1000.
Comment: Most of the $1000 coilovers do not your reliability goal. Plenty of reviews on low end coilovers like BC Racing and Tein complaining about reliability and lack of compliance.

4. You don't like the rake of the B12 Bilstein kit (with Eibach springs).
Comment: The rake is caused by the springs. You can choose different spring combinations what will change the rake and/or use spring spacers to change the rake (be careful as too big a shim (ie. >1/2") can cause preloading of the shock and early wear). Camber plates can also raise the car slightly without impacting the travel of your shocks.

5. You didn't state how much you want to lower the car.
Comment Msport springs will give you 1/2' drop from stock with even rake
BMW performance springs will lower your car by another 10mm or so.
Swift Spec R will rap another 1/2" from BMWPS springs with even rake.
http://swiftsprings.wpengine.com/pro...prings-spec-r/

Note that #5 is listed in increasing spring stiffness.

Most of the springs like H&R and Eibach have more drop and more rake.

Summary: Go with Bilstein B8 and Swift Spec R springs. Meets your requirement for better handling, longevity, minimal rake and your budget.