Motor Magazine September 2008

[professor]

i like the way you think taka! it should be possible to send a virus to the ECU telling it that the whole of australia is actually the fuji speedway.

[Alpine*]

My two cents worth.

I made the decision to buy a car that is really outside of my budget but.... it has been a dream of mine to have an M3 for about 15 years so I did it. What I am saying I guess is that if you want a rocket, a car that will win traffic light drags and, in the hands of a "driver" as WAY said, smoke on the track then buy an R35. Mega BANG for ya bucks!

To me, the R35 is not an aspirational car, it is just the latest hot rod, a damn good one I must add.

I went to the launch of the M3, loved the car, so much so that to have it I made the decision to leave my full time employment and go contracting so I could ge the cash flow. That is passion IMO!

To those who fork out that sort of cash for a Nissan enjoy! Me, I just walk into the gargae and look at the M and smile :biggrin:

[Guran]

What??? No-one's mentioned the 7L W427 Commodore. A snip at only $155.5k!

[WAY]

AlpineM3, I reckon the GTR is a real aspirational car for the Playstation generation!

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by AlpineM3E92

My two cents worth.

I made the decision to buy a car that is really outside of my budget but.... it has been a dream of mine to have an M3 for about 15 years so I did it. What I am saying I guess is that if you want a rocket, a car that will win traffic light drags and, in the hands of a "driver" as WAY said, smoke on the track then buy an R35. Mega BANG for ya bucks!

To me, the R35 is not an aspirational car, it is just the latest hot rod, a damn good one I must add.

I went to the launch of the M3, loved the car, so much so that to have it I made the decision to leave my full time employment and go contracting so I could ge the cash flow. That is passion IMO!

To those who fork out that sort of cash for a Nissan enjoy! Me, I just walk into the gargae and look at the M and smile :biggrin:

Exactly, each to their own, that's what it's all about :wink: the R35 may not be inspirational and just the latest hot rod to you, but it certainly is inspirational and to die for to 10's of thousands of other people around the World, i may be wrong, but from what I know it has a far bigger cult following than the M3 :smile:

Nissan is producing a maximum of 1000 a month and is back logged for over 12 months of pre-orders...that's how popular it is with other people :smile:

The same joy your decision has brought you with your M3 is the same joy someone else who desires and goes to the same trouble to acquire a GT-R or whatever other type of car will have for them, so yes we should be happy and enjoy whatever we decide to purchase, that's what being a car enthusiast and having this passion is all about - we can't all like exactly the same thing, it's an individual passion :smile:

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by WAY

AlpineM3, I reckon the GTR is a real aspirational car for the Playstation generation!

And some of us older folk too, like me :smile:

[WAY]

Well, I sit between your generation and the playstation generation, whilst it hasn't exactly grabbed me by the throat, I reckon I could be talked into one!

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by WAY

Well, I sit between your generation and the playstation generation, whilst it hasn't exactly grabbed me by the throat, I reckon I could be talked into one!

LOL don't know if that'll work WAY :smile:

With cars and car freaks like us on forums etc, you either like something or not, usually from the beginning and for your own many reasons :smile:

Anyway enough of me rambling on about the GT-R, back on topic, I am truly happy to keep finding out and seeing from tests and articles just how good the 135i is and am more willing and eager than ever to buy one - I just have to bite my time, for a while longer

[takahashi]

Originally Posted by professor

i like the way you think taka! it should be possible to send a virus to the ECU telling it that the whole of australia is actually the fuji speedway.

I like the way I think too. Especially when it is dirty.

Well as long as the ECU knows they are in Australia not Austria (easy mistake done by the Japanese).

[imported_Dodgy]

I'm with AlpineM3 on this one.

No denying Godzilla is a fantastic piece of engineering, and I can see why so many would want one. Value for money, you bet.

For me though, once you are in that price range, "value" is less relevant than "desire". When I was 20, loved the GTR. Now that I'm "all grown up", it's just a little crass for me.

The M is the car with the passion and the soul for me. If I could afford it, even if 30k more than the GTR, it would be the M3 all the way. No question. No second thought.

I am not saying it's a bad car, far from it. For me, it doesn't have that special something that makes it desirable.

Now the 1er....... That's desirable!

[spdrcr]

Did anyone else notice that the Mazda 2 Genki came 4th outright lol? Surely that must put a big dent in the credibility of their evaluation methodology...

[AussieRacer]

I suppose it sounds stupid, but I genuinely think there was too much weighting on the price, and no explanation I could see about how the buck index worked.. Hence a car that barely got a bang score at all came 4th.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by AussieRacer

I suppose it sounds stupid, but I genuinely think there was too much weighting on the price, and no explanation I could see about how the buck index worked.. Hence a car that barely got a bang score at all came 4th.

That's odd, I havn't seen this issue yet, but in past issues I thought they explained exactly how their BFYB formula worked :iono:

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by professor

hmmm....i think damp tracks make a whole lot of sense. no use having power if you can't put it down efficiently. after all, isn't that the reason 911s can pick on cars above its HP/KW class because it uses its relatively lesser power so much better?

damp track just favors awd. most 911's are not awd, but they do put the power down well in dry conditions.

it makes no sense to test in the damp. its stupid to race in the wet even if you have awd.

if you want to see who you can "pick on," the best test is from a roll, where traction makes little diffirence anyway.

still, my question is the only reason the 1er did so bad was because the track was wet?

[MikeVictor]

They do explain it, however IMHO it's a real accountants way of determining the best car.

No passion involved, which is why the ute's scored so well and in our category the 135i ranked where it did, where the judges clearly thought it should have rated 2nd.

[professor]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

damp track just favors awd. most 911's are not awd, but they do put the power down well in dry conditions.

it makes no sense to test in the damp. its stupid to race in the wet even if you have awd.

if you want to see who you can "pick on," the best test is from a roll, where traction makes little diffirence anyway.

still, my question is the only reason the 1er did so bad was because the track was wet?

My comments was aimed at getting a holistic picture of performance on a car and by that measurement performance on a damp track has to be one of the key factors alongside the usual tests like 0-62, 0-400m etc. How does a rolling start give an unbiased perspective? Fatass cars would be favored.

I think an ideal evaluation of cars would be over a circuit that has long straights, a variety of curves with varying radii, dry and wet sections on the tarmac, gradients, speed bumps, and so on. A proper car manufacturer's testing facility with a single driver.

[professor]

Originally Posted by mattyv

They do explain it, however IMHO it's a real accountants way of determining the best car.

No passion involved, which is why the ute's scored so well and in our category the 135i ranked where it did, where the judges clearly thought it should have rated 2nd.

exactly. they are probably trying to be rational and prevent any subjectivism. the trouble is that for me the most important factor about any car is whether it inspires viscerally. but analyzing a car's merits has to be a subjective exercise as the above debate about the gt-r clearly demonstrates.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by mattyv

They do explain it, however IMHO it's a real accountants way of determining the best car.

No passion involved, which is why the ute's scored so well and in our category the 135i ranked where it did, where the judges clearly thought it should have rated 2nd.

I see where your coming from Matty, (and professor's points are notable too) but isn't that the whole point of 'bang' for your 'buck' or coin as the yanks would say :smile:

I think in past issues they've emphasised this...

At the end of the day though, each will have their personal favourite for their own personal reasons and that is usually the way cars are chosen and purchased by 'passionate' enthusiasts - no question about that one and I certainly won't be knocking anyone elses decision/s because as I've already said - what floats my boat may not be someone elses cup of tea and so on, as long as everybodies happy in the end, that's what counts :smile:

[Carlos]

Well if the Motor BFYB continues with the same process of evaluation the next year and so on, I have no doubt the all the next years the winner will be a Commodore or an Falcon

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Well if the Motor BFYB continues with the same process of evaluation the next year and so on, I have no doubt the all the next years the winner will be a Commodore or an Falcon

Commodores (more specifically HSV's or SS's) have had their fair share of wins in the past too, not just in the present and I'm sure that'll indeed continue...

I purchased an LS1 powered HSV R8 in 1999 and it won BFYB in the 2000 BFYB comp. suffice to say, I was over the moon, as it made me feel I'd done the best thing a year earlier, as one of my main reasons for buying it, at that time, was that I wanted a new car that was one the best performance sedans around and that wasn't going to cost me the Earth and I just loved its looks too, compared to the cheaper, but more basic SS of the same era :smile:

If we want other factors as mentioned by people here to be considered as judging criteria, then the whole 'BANG FOR YOUR BUCKS' title would have to change :iono:

Hell if money was no object, or if it were a case of pick which is your most desirable, or your dream car I'm sure everyone would be voting for the most expensive exotic cars there as the winners...:smile:

BTW, come to think of it, I do remember one year (can't remember which year to be exact, think it was 3 or 4 years ago, someone else may know) the Lamborghini Gallardo won :eyebulge: and I'm sure the Porsche Boxster has taken it out once too....so there you go, it ain't always the 'local industry heros' sometimes those mega dollar exotics we all dream about win :smile:

[Guran]

I got home on Saturday and immediately devoured the BFYB article!

First up, I have to say that I was very disappointed to find that they used exactly the same calculation system as they did last year. I wrote a damning letter to MOTOR after last year's debacle, and the letter was printed in the Oct 2007 issue (I think). Basically, they said they used a weighting of 60% for the "Bang Index" and 40% for the "Bucks Index". In reality, they used 80% and 70% respectively, which doesn't really make sense. In 2007, those weightings were JUST enough to make sure that the SS Commodore was the winner. In response to my letter, they promised an explanation of the calculation system ... I'm still waiting!

So to see the same system used again was a real slap in the face. But at least this year, it didn't have so much effect on the result. However, had they decided to simply use 50% weighting for each index, then the winner would have been the Mazda 2 Genki! This was because it costs less than HALF as much as the average cost of the assembled cars, resulting in a massive 230.9 points for the Bucks Index. That's a lot of ground to be made up in the Bang Index! One solution to this would have been to include some cars in the $25k-$35k range (would reduce the average cost and hence give fewer Bucks Index points to the cheaper cars). This was the original intention, but the two Fiats they wanted to test were not available for inclusion. Ideally, the distribution of car price should be close to a normal distribution (bell curve) for this system to work properly.

Secondly, they didn't bother to provide much detail on how this year's figures were compiled and analysed. They did mention the weightings given to the various test results, but nothing about how the acceleration times or speeds or rankings were converted into a score. Frankly, if MOTOR wants to improve their credibility for such things (from near zero), then they need to improve the rigour of their data analysis. This was more a case of "data dump" without any proper analysis.

Thirdly, I don't really have a problem with the XR6T Ute taking the trophy. From all reports, it wasn't as much fun to drive as the XR6T sedan and SS Commodore sedan/ute, but it had just as much poke and was a whole lot cheaper. And that's what BFYB is all about.

Lastly, I was actually very impressed to see that the 135i posted the second highest "Bang Index", beaten only by the FPV F6. It also had the shortest braking distance from 100km/hr to zero. The corner speeds were a bit disappointing, confirming that understeer is a bit of an issue for the 135i. But thankfully, the acceleration out of corners more than makes up for it.

Frankly, if BFYB was the only thing that influenced my decision to buy a car, I'd go with the SS Commodore ute or sedan, or maybe the XR6T sedan ... all have huge poke, are quick around the track, and are more engaging to drive than the XR6T Ute. But then again, my decision making is also influenced by quality of interior fitments & features, value retention, fuel consumption, and (call me a snob if you like) prestige. Combining those factors with BFYB and the 135i is a clear winner.

[MikeVictor]

I was amazed to see the difference in breaking distances from 100->0 between our beloved 1er and the rest myself.