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      07-25-2014, 01:27 PM   #1
whitebimmer09
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Groits First Polish

So I polished my car with #3 polish and polish pad and it looked pretty good, but I am not completely happy. I am still seeing very faint spider web scratches which is the only reason I got the set up. I didn't machine wax it after since it was a hard 3 hour project so I gave it a good spray wax wipe down. What should I try next? I really want to get rid of those fine spider scratches. I used my Groits polish pad on the trunk since that is where they were the worst but the polish was too hard to get off so I went and got a less rough pad and it came off easier but the pads made no difference that I could tell except ease of use.
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      07-25-2014, 08:23 PM   #2
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Need more info:
What machine did you use?
Did you clay the car prior to polishing?
How many pads are you using?
Do you clean the pad after each panel?
What colour is your car?
The swirls may be deeper than you think and a compound may be needed.
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2012 BMW 128i 6MT Deep Sea Blue Metallic
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      07-26-2014, 09:07 AM   #3
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I used a Groits RO and I did things by the books. I did clay the car completely beforehand. I used the Groits polish pad on the trunk where it was the worst and I used a microfiber towel to remove the polish. I think I need to try the Gorits #1 polish on certain parts where it is the worst. Possibly a different pad as well.
My car is AW
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      07-31-2014, 06:54 AM   #4
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A cutting/polishing pad(Harder Pad) is typically used with a polish. I would suggest to try working a small area at a time about 1ft sq and thoroughly wiping the polish once it flashes(turns semi clear like Vaseline). Then inspect the area to make sure you got what you wanted and move on.
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      08-03-2014, 09:39 AM   #5
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I have been watching a lot of videos from AMMO (I don't get how the guy can make me watch a half hour video about detailing but can) and I think I need to try something else.
I was thinking something like this but I don't know. That is what the AMMO guy used for a job like this.

My neighbor and I did his car the same way and it came out great, but he didn't have any web scratches on it.
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      08-04-2014, 10:32 AM   #6
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The Griot's #3 was not aggressive enough to cut down spiderwebbing. It's a very mild abrasive meant to correct slight surface marring (which spider web marks are not).

If you want to stay with Griot's, you can buy the #1 and couple it with a medium cutting pad, but you may have to follow it up with the #3 again to correct any marring the #3 leaves behind. Generally, the #1 is supposed to finish down pretty well and not leave that much marring, but I haven't used it personally.

If you were starting from scratch, I'd suggest a medium pad and some Menzerna FG400 topped with a quality sealant.
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      08-08-2014, 08:57 AM   #7
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Unfortunately, I don't really care for the products that I have. I ordered the FG400 and plan clay and apply with my orbiter the when I get it.

This shouldn't damage anything, right? I mean I polished the car with the #3, then a few weeks later I sealed it and now I will use this stronger compound. I take it these paints are pretty tough? I just don't want to polish the thing to death with my Groits Random Orbiter.
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      08-08-2014, 09:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitebimmer09 View Post
Unfortunately, I don't really care for the products that I have. I ordered the FG400 and plan clay and apply with my orbiter the when I get it. This shouldn't damage anything, right? I mean I polished the car with the #3, then a few weeks later I sealed it and now I will use this stronger compound. I take it these paints are pretty tough? I just don't want to polish the thing to death with my Groits Random Orbiter.
Sounds good - I think you'll be happy. The most important thing is to remember to strip off all that sealant and work on the bare clear coat, otherwise you won't get the results you're expecting. Some Original Dawn or Joy dish soap followed by an IPA wipedown should take care of this for you. The claying may not be necessary depending on the condition of the panel since (I'm assuming) you clayed it before using the #3. To check, put a latex glove on your left hand with the clay in your right. Spray your preferred lubricant on the panel and move your glove over the panel. You should be able to feel embedded particles very easily. Use the bar in your other hand to pull them out of the paint. Repeat until you can't feel any particles embedded in the area and then move on. Remember to use the IPA wipedown with a clean microfiber after claying to remove any clay and detailing residue. Some people insist on a full wash after claying, but I personally feel this is a bit overkill.

About the tool and product, you should be fine with the RO and the FG400. Be patient with the product and remember that it's a one-step polish and may take some time to completely work down. Read the directions on the bottle for proper RO speed and product volume. Some people have noticed very very faint marring left behind after the FG400, but you may/may not. It seems to vary by the paint on the car in question.

In regard to overworking the paint, modern BMW paints should (imo) be considered a "moderate" paint to work with (which varies by color type). It's nothing similar to other models such as Nissan which generally use a very, very soft paint or other marquees that have very hard almost-impossible clears to work with.

That being said, BMW clear coat, just like basically every other modern volume manufacturer, is water-based and very thin. The chances of you burning through the clear with the tool and product you mentioned is extremely low, but you also shouldn't keep working the same area over and over. If FG400 isn't giving you the results you desire, you may want to take it by a body shop and get a professional opinion before diving deeper into the rabbit hole.

Last edited by cheshirecat79; 08-08-2014 at 09:26 AM..
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      08-08-2014, 10:28 AM   #9
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Thanks for all your input, I am new to the paint correction world and wouldn't be able to do this with help from this forum and youtube videos. I have seen videos where they use a cutting pad with a slight microfiber mat similar to this http://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Microf...ing+microfiber

or should I look into something more along the lines of
http://www.amazon.com/Chemical-Guys-...um+pad+cutting

What is the difference?
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      08-09-2014, 04:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitebimmer09 View Post
Thanks for all your input, I am new to the paint correction world and wouldn't be able to do this with help from this forum and youtube videos. I have seen videos where they use a cutting pad with a slight microfiber mat similar to this http://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Microf...ing+microfiber
What is the difference?
I'd suggest looking into Lake Country pads - they're pretty widely regarded as a great product both in performance and value. Here's a quick chart.



As far as microfiber versus foam pads, I'd suggest you stick with foam for now. MF is generally considered a more aggressive cutting pad, although different manufacturers are producing many different types of both pads at this time that fit many different applications. A medium cutting foam pad and the FG400 should be good for now. As you get more experienced working with the paint, you can start to branch out and try more aggressive polishes, but I'd caution against that until you're comfortable working with a medium polishing solution.

To illustrate the whole pad/product dilemma, think of using your hand with some sandpaper to finish down a rough piece of wood. The polish is like the grit of the sandpaper- 200, 400, and so on. The pad is how much pressure you're putting on the back of the sandpaper with your hand.

What you ran into with your last attempt at correcting your paint was a combination of both not enough "pressure" (via the pad) and not enough of a "grit" via the polish. Sure- you could get a microfiber pad and really put some power behind that polish, but you're running the risk of overdoing it with such a heavy hand and possibly harming your finish.

I don't know what pad you're using exactly, but if it's the Griot's orange polishing pad, that particular one is very soft and is meant for laying down things like sealant rather than actual paint correction. Keep it handy by all means and use it for polishing the surface by all means, but you may want to look at a moderate cutting pad to use alongside it during the actual paint correction phase like the Orange Light Cutting Foam Pad. More detail here:
http://www.autogeek.net/ccs-polishing-how-to.html

Product here: (linked at bottom of hyperlink above)
http://www.autogeek.net/lc-ccs-orange-6.html

One last thing to keep in mind as you tackle these spiderwebs - the idea is to let the polisher, polish product, and pad do the majority of the work for you. You *shouldn't* have to press very hard on the surface of the panel to get the results you are looking for. Usually something similar to an easy, but firm and steady 1-2 pounds of pressure is enough to let the process work its magic. Here and there, you may need to exert more pressure, but this is typically and exception and anything more is a reason to choose more aggressive products.

ps- there's no real agreed upon color guide for different manufacturers and their pads. A yellow, orange, red, or white pad may vary in application between manufacturers- case in point, a Griot's orange finishing pad versus a Lake Country orange medium polishing pad. Same color, very different application. This was confusing to me at the beginning. I found that sticking with one company for my pads (in my case Lake Country), it cut down on the guesswork quite a bit.
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      08-09-2014, 08:10 AM   #11
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Thanks for the info. I am going to tackle this Wednesday after I get my Maddad catted mids and whisper exhaust installed!! I will try to take some pictures of the paint before and after and after doing small sections.
Thanks again for all your help. I bought a small desk chair to roll around the garage in, probably the best $5 you can spend for a project like this.
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      08-11-2014, 02:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitebimmer09 View Post
Thanks for the info. I am going to tackle this Wednesday after I get my Maddad catted mids and whisper exhaust installed!! I will try to take some pictures of the paint before and after and after doing small sections.
Thanks again for all your help. I bought a small desk chair to roll around the garage in, probably the best $5 you can spend for a project like this.
Absolutely. I got a little hydraulic stool that's similar. That coupled with a little cart to pull all your crap around in makes things much easier.
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