DIY: Whiteline rear subframe inserts

mr.fabulous · 05-16-2016, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freon

Depends on who you ask. I believe the reason they're marked as replacement by BMW is due to an anti-corrosion coating. They're far too light to be steel or iron, therefore I do not think they are stretch bolts. Al and Mg are not suitable materials for stretching.

A magnet sticks (ferrous)

Gangplank · 05-18-2016, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I thought the bolts could be reused?

Depends on who you ask. I believe the reason they're marked as replacement by BMW is due to an anti-corrosion coating. They're far too light to be steel or iron, therefore I do not think they are stretch bolts. Al and Mg are not suitable materials for stretching.

Mine were reused & re-torqued/checked to ensure correct spec after 500 miles. No issue here. Of course YMMV.

ianc · 06-21-2016, 09:51 PM

Hi folks,

Just did this over the weekend and it's as the majority of the opinions seemed to go here; not terribly difficult and about a 2 hr job from start to finish. A little scary when you lower the rear subframe on the diff jack and see the brake sensor wiring start to tense up, but that's just part of the fun.

You can leave the cross brace bolts in when doing the rears to help with keeping the subframe aligned, but you'll have to take them out when doing the fronts. I did find that I needed to use a pry bar to separate the subframe slightly from the body when installing the front uppers, but once the fingers were in, it wasn't bad. Just barely enough grease included to coat both sides of all the inserts prior to insertion. I used 74 ft-lbs for the subframe bolts and 60 for the cross brace, but the latter felt like just a wee bit much too me. I used a very long punch to align one of the bracket bolt holes on each side before starting the bolt in the other and had no issues after getting the first started.

It's obviously a good upgrade and I've not had a great amount of time to test it yet, but there is definitely a big improvement. Primarily in the lack of wiggle under heavy throttle application, powering through sweepers, and the car just feeling more stable and predictable under hard cornering.

One very unexpected benefit that I haven't seen mentioned before (so maybe it's just me) is an improved 1-2 shift if you have a manual transmission. Ever since new this car has had a difficult and unpleasant 1-2 shift when accelerating briskly. It almost seemed like the trans didn't want to come out of first gear and I had to use more force than was comfortable to take it out of first prior to shifting to second. No grinding or anything of that nature, just that first gear almost didn't seem to want to give up its hold. Very annoying. I began experimenting with pushing in the clutch just slightly earlier, but there was too much muscle memory there from my old Porsches to make that a fruitful endeavor. If I accelerated very lightly, it wasn't an issue.

I find that after doing the bushing inserts, the 1-2 upshift seems markedly improved. I can't readily explain why this would be the case unless the stock RSFB's were allowing some finite amount of torsional deflection in the drive train which needed to unwind before first gear could easily be disengaged.

At any rate, that's my 2c, so make of it what you will. I'd rate it highly recommended,

ianc

Gangplank · 06-21-2016, 11:23 PM

Could be the angle improved slightly on the rear diff? Just enough to smooth the engagement?

ShocknAwe · 06-22-2016, 07:37 PM

It's just bushing windup. Installing a diff Lockdown helps as well. As do tyranny mounts. Anything that reduces movement in the drivetrain.

Tallicia · 07-10-2016, 01:31 PM

Ordered along with wheel wax, so as the wheel wax is curing, the inserts might as well get done while waiting, right?! Here's to not needing to redo my manicure when all the parts arrive and are installed.

sjk9671 · 08-15-2016, 09:38 AM

So I just installed the Whitline sub-frame bushings. I have to say, getting the rear bolts back in was WAY harder than I remember when taking them out.

I even pulled them back out several times to make sure I wasn't stripping something. But they looked fine. I lined them up and then went in about 10 turns freely by hand but once they get about half way in I really encountered some serious resistance.

I pulled them back out and greased the threads and even so I had to use a piece of my jack handle for the last inch. They are all tight now.

Anyone else have this issue? I know 100% the bushings and sub-frame are lined up right. The front mounts bolts went in easy and I tightened them down to about the last 1/2 in before I put the rears in.

desertman123 · 08-15-2016, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjk9671

So I just installed the Whitline sub-frame bushings. I have to say, getting the rear bolts back in was WAY harder than I remember when taking them out.

I even pulled them back out several times to make sure I wasn't stripping something. But they looked fine. I lined them up and then went in about 10 turns freely by hand but once they get about half way in I really encountered some serious resistance.

I pulled them back out and greased the threads and even so I had to use a piece of my jack handle for the last inch. They are all tight now.

Anyone else have this issue? I know 100% the bushings and sub-frame are lined up right. The front mounts bolts went in easy and I tightened them down to about the last 1/2 in before I put the rears in.

Same exact thing here. It was ez pz until it wasn't, then I really had to rip em. I installed these like a month ago, then checked the torque again today and nothing was loose so whatever

sjk9671 · 08-16-2016, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertman123

Same exact thing here. It was ez pz until it wasn't, then I really had to rip em. I installed these like a month ago, then checked the torque again today and nothing was loose so whatever

That is good to hear, did they come out easy? I feel like mine did but honestly I don't remember. I drove the car for the first time today and the result is awesome. I will check everything in the next couple days to be sure it's still tight.

Gangplank · 08-16-2016, 08:12 AM

My Indy had me stop by after 2 weeks to check the bolt torque. Everything was fine, but seems really good advice to check after a couple weeks of regular driving.

sjk9671 · 08-16-2016, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gangplank

My Indy had me stop by after 2 weeks to check the bolt torque. Everything was fine, but seems really good advice to check after a couple weeks of regular driving.

Yeah I know they are tight, I was just worried about them breaking during the last 1/4".

Gangplank · 08-16-2016, 07:31 PM

Yes, You know they are tight today... The recommendation is to check in 2 weeks to avoid a potentially horrendous outcome if they don't stay that way.

techwhiz · 09-02-2016, 11:25 PM

I just want to chime in and say on a my 2008 E90 with sport package, it's more involved than what's in the instructions.

1. I have the braces that connect to the chassis with 16mm bolts.
2. It is not possible to do this on an E90 335 without dropping the exhaust.

The exhaust is bolted to the rear bushing mount.
There is also not enough clearance to drop the subframe without removing the exhaust hangers at the very rear.

I stopped because I didn't have an extra support for the exhaust.
For my car its a ⅖ or ⅗ with my F8x Brembo retrofit including machining on the rears being a ⅘.

04gto · 09-02-2016, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz

I just want to chime in and say on a my 2008 E90 with sport package, it's more involved than what's in the instructions.

1. I have the braces that connect to the chassis with 16mm bolts.
2. It is not possible to do this on an E90 335 without dropping the exhaust.

The exhaust is bolted to the rear bushing mount.
There is also not enough clearance to drop the subframe without removing the exhaust hangers at the very rear.

I stopped because I didn't have an extra support for the exhaust.
For my car its a ⅖ or ⅗ with my F8x Brembo retrofit including machining on the rears being a ⅘.

I also have a 2008 with sport package. I never touched the exhaust. However I will agree that the instructions do not match up exactly to what you will find under the cars with sport package.

techwhiz · 09-06-2016, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04gto

I also have a 2008 with sport package. I never touched the exhaust. However I will agree that the instructions do not match up exactly to what you will find under the cars with sport package.

Was there enough room to drop?
A set of exhaust hangers is bolted to the rear subframe.
The fronts have the support bolted to the side of the car under the cover.

I got under the car and fiddled around but it wasn't obvious if I could do it without touching the exhaust.

I did't feel like getting halfway through and getting stuck.
I'm haveing camber plates installed in a week or so and I may just have the shop do it.

04gto · 09-06-2016, 02:13 PM

I had plenty of room.

desertman123 · 09-06-2016, 07:53 PM

128i w/ sport here.

Not sure if it was mentioned in the DIY (either the one on 1addicts or the sheet provided) but I don't remember it being.

Ended up having to completely unbolt this xbrace type deal to get the front portion of the subframe bottom bushing inserts in. Real easy since the car was already on stands.

techwhiz · 09-09-2016, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04gto

I had plenty of room.

I went by the shop today. Car goes in next Thursday.
They are doing the struts camber plates for 1.5 hours a side.
For another 1.5 hours I'll just let them have the headache or the reinforcements.

juld0zer · 10-03-2016, 07:08 AM

Does anyone notice a humming noise above 40kmh after installing the inserts or KDT917 full bushings? It definitely was not there before with the stock bushings and i've not changed anything else.

The subframe bolts are reusable. The 16mm or etorx ones are not. Neither are the 18mm bolts connecting to the V brace.
Subframe bolts: 108Nm
V brace 18mm bolts: Use new bolts. 100Nm + 90 degrees
16mm/etorx bolts: Use new bolts. 47Nm (or 45 i cant remember) + 90 degrees.

juld0zer · 10-03-2016, 07:12 AM

Also, the 'stretching' feeling you get when tightening the subframe bolts is more likely to be the bolts pulling the inserts into position or in the case of the KDT917, the bolts are compressing the bushing slightly against the large steel end plate. I noticed it only on the rear bushings since the end plates actually hold the two halves of the bushings together. Remember the huge gap between the plate and the bottom of the stock rear bushings? Stock bushings are one piece so dont rely on the end plate to prevent vertical movement.

Gangplank · 10-03-2016, 07:44 AM

My insets are silent. No humming. Have you double checked all the torque values?

juld0zer · 10-03-2016, 03:35 PM

I have the full bushings but the thickness of the lower portion is greater than the original parts, so the V brace and the two brackets to the body on the front will sit a little lower than before.

Bolts have been retorqued 3 times now. On the second time the required bolts were replaced including the four subframe ones which dont have to be replaced.

06-21-2016, 09:51 PM	#157
ianc Ex '87 Carrera 246 Rep 1,259 Posts Drives: '10 TiAg 6MT 135i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Redwood Shores, California iTrader: (0)	Hi folks, Just did this over the weekend and it's as the majority of the opinions seemed to go here; not terribly difficult and about a 2 hr job from start to finish. A little scary when you lower the rear subframe on the diff jack and see the brake sensor wiring start to tense up, but that's just part of the fun. You can leave the cross brace bolts in when doing the rears to help with keeping the subframe aligned, but you'll have to take them out when doing the fronts. I did find that I needed to use a pry bar to separate the subframe slightly from the body when installing the front uppers, but once the fingers were in, it wasn't bad. Just barely enough grease included to coat both sides of all the inserts prior to insertion. I used 74 ft-lbs for the subframe bolts and 60 for the cross brace, but the latter felt like just a wee bit much too me. I used a very long punch to align one of the bracket bolt holes on each side before starting the bolt in the other and had no issues after getting the first started. It's obviously a good upgrade and I've not had a great amount of time to test it yet, but there is definitely a big improvement. Primarily in the lack of wiggle under heavy throttle application, powering through sweepers, and the car just feeling more stable and predictable under hard cornering. One very unexpected benefit that I haven't seen mentioned before (so maybe it's just me) is an improved 1-2 shift if you have a manual transmission. Ever since new this car has had a difficult and unpleasant 1-2 shift when accelerating briskly. It almost seemed like the trans didn't want to come out of first gear and I had to use more force than was comfortable to take it out of first prior to shifting to second. No grinding or anything of that nature, just that first gear almost didn't seem to want to give up its hold. Very annoying. I began experimenting with pushing in the clutch just slightly earlier, but there was too much muscle memory there from my old Porsches to make that a fruitful endeavor. If I accelerated very lightly, it wasn't an issue. I find that after doing the bushing inserts, the 1-2 upshift seems markedly improved. I can't readily explain why this would be the case unless the stock RSFB's were allowing some finite amount of torsional deflection in the drive train which needed to unwind before first gear could easily be disengaged. At any rate, that's my 2c, so make of it what you will. I'd rate it highly recommended, ianc __________________ "I will tell you there is a big difference between driving money and driving blood, sweat and tears." - PorscheGuy79 "I got 328 loaner and was impressed with performance. It feels much faster than my 135i." - MOCKBA
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06-21-2016, 11:23 PM	#158
Gangplank Brigadier General 1541 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: 2011 e82 135i n55 Sport w/ DCT Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Vero Beach, FL iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 135i [0.00]	Could be the angle improved slightly on the rear diff? Just enough to smooth the engagement?
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06-22-2016, 07:37 PM	#159
ShocknAwe 1Addict 3233 Rep 7,893 Posts Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Charleston iTrader: (22)	It's just bushing windup. Installing a diff Lockdown helps as well. As do tyranny mounts. Anything that reduces movement in the drivetrain. __________________ 2010 135i 6MT Jet Black N54/3 FE82 Mutt \| BUILD THREAD \| GARAGE SALE
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07-10-2016, 01:31 PM	#160
Tallicia Private First Class 74 Rep 141 Posts Drives: X6 and 1 series Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: DFW, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2013 X6 [0.00] 2011 BMW 135i M Spo ... [0.00]	Ordered along with wheel wax, so as the wheel wax is curing, the inserts might as well get done while waiting, right?! Here's to not needing to redo my manicure when all the parts arrive and are installed.
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08-15-2016, 09:38 AM	#161
sjk9671 Private First Class 24 Rep 187 Posts Drives: 2020 X3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rochester, NY iTrader: (0)	So I just installed the Whitline sub-frame bushings. I have to say, getting the rear bolts back in was WAY harder than I remember when taking them out. I even pulled them back out several times to make sure I wasn't stripping something. But they looked fine. I lined them up and then went in about 10 turns freely by hand but once they get about half way in I really encountered some serious resistance. I pulled them back out and greased the threads and even so I had to use a piece of my jack handle for the last inch. They are all tight now. Anyone else have this issue? I know 100% the bushings and sub-frame are lined up right. The front mounts bolts went in easy and I tightened them down to about the last 1/2 in before I put the rears in. __________________ 12 CR 135i - BMS Intake
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08-16-2016, 08:12 AM	#164
Gangplank Brigadier General 1541 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: 2011 e82 135i n55 Sport w/ DCT Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Vero Beach, FL iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 135i [0.00]	My Indy had me stop by after 2 weeks to check the bolt torque. Everything was fine, but seems really good advice to check after a couple weeks of regular driving.
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08-16-2016, 07:31 PM	#166
Gangplank Brigadier General 1541 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: 2011 e82 135i n55 Sport w/ DCT Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Vero Beach, FL iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 135i [0.00]	Yes, You know they are tight today... The recommendation is to check in 2 weeks to avoid a potentially horrendous outcome if they don't stay that way.
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09-02-2016, 11:25 PM	#167
techwhiz Colonel 453 Rep 2,973 Posts Drives: e90 335i Sedan - Arctic Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bay Area, Ca iTrader: (4)	I just want to chime in and say on a my 2008 E90 with sport package, it's more involved than what's in the instructions. 1. I have the braces that connect to the chassis with 16mm bolts. 2. It is not possible to do this on an E90 335 without dropping the exhaust. The exhaust is bolted to the rear bushing mount. There is also not enough clearance to drop the subframe without removing the exhaust hangers at the very rear. I stopped because I didn't have an extra support for the exhaust. For my car its a ⅖ or ⅗ with my F8x Brembo retrofit including machining on the rears being a ⅘. __________________ Arctic Metallic\CF Splitters, Spoiler, Mirror Covers\LED Tails\LSD\Tinted\Coded\Apex Square SM10-19"\LED Angel Eyes\Gloss Black Grill\Integrated V1 & Galaxy Tab\M-Performance Brakes\Cobb Tuned\xHP Flash\Resonator Removed and -> is your friend.
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09-06-2016, 02:13 PM	#170
04gto Private First Class 107 Rep 161 Posts Drives: 2023 330e Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (5)	I had plenty of room. __________________ v12 Flash, Turbonator, The Tornado, FD47 power booster, Turbo sound whistler, Nitrogen filled tires, The Ghost Pro, Joe Gibbs BR30, AFE DAS, Nut blast
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09-06-2016, 07:53 PM	#171
desertman123 E82 Mudflap Ambassador 2214 Rep 2,219 Posts Drives: '08 128i Join Date: May 2016 Location: Orlando, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1992 Honda Beat [9.50] 2008 BMW 128i [10.00] 2014 BMW 528i [10.00]	128i w/ sport here. Not sure if it was mentioned in the DIY (either the one on 1addicts or the sheet provided) but I don't remember it being. Ended up having to completely unbolt this xbrace type deal to get the front portion of the subframe bottom bushing inserts in. Real easy since the car was already on stands.
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10-03-2016, 07:08 AM	#173
juld0zer Lieutenant Colonel 480 Rep 1,600 Posts Drives: Prev 135i 7DCT, Now 130i 6sp Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: 2153 iTrader: (0)	Does anyone notice a humming noise above 40kmh after installing the inserts or KDT917 full bushings? It definitely was not there before with the stock bushings and i've not changed anything else. The subframe bolts are reusable. The 16mm or etorx ones are not. Neither are the 18mm bolts connecting to the V brace. Subframe bolts: 108Nm V brace 18mm bolts: Use new bolts. 100Nm + 90 degrees 16mm/etorx bolts: Use new bolts. 47Nm (or 45 i cant remember) + 90 degrees.
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10-03-2016, 07:12 AM	#174
juld0zer Lieutenant Colonel 480 Rep 1,600 Posts Drives: Prev 135i 7DCT, Now 130i 6sp Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: 2153 iTrader: (0)	Also, the 'stretching' feeling you get when tightening the subframe bolts is more likely to be the bolts pulling the inserts into position or in the case of the KDT917, the bolts are compressing the bushing slightly against the large steel end plate. I noticed it only on the rear bushings since the end plates actually hold the two halves of the bushings together. Remember the huge gap between the plate and the bottom of the stock rear bushings? Stock bushings are one piece so dont rely on the end plate to prevent vertical movement.
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10-03-2016, 07:44 AM	#175
Gangplank Brigadier General 1541 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: 2011 e82 135i n55 Sport w/ DCT Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Vero Beach, FL iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 135i [0.00]	My insets are silent. No humming. Have you double checked all the torque values?
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10-03-2016, 03:35 PM	#176
juld0zer Lieutenant Colonel 480 Rep 1,600 Posts Drives: Prev 135i 7DCT, Now 130i 6sp Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: 2153 iTrader: (0)	I have the full bushings but the thickness of the lower portion is greater than the original parts, so the V brace and the two brackets to the body on the front will sit a little lower than before. Bolts have been retorqued 3 times now. On the second time the required bolts were replaced including the four subframe ones which dont have to be replaced.
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