My ultimate handling machine, sublime handling

[mmmusty]

Hi addicts,

I've had my 128i for roughly 2.5 years now... and last Tuesday, i finally got to doing the major suspension overhaul i have been saving for.

First some details about my car before the install

2008 Alpine Weiss 128i, 106k, sport package, 6MT, sunroof, manual seats, rear seat delete, muffler delete, breyton gtsr 8.5x18 square, cheapo accelera tires 235/40/18, M3 front control arms, Depo HID, BMW performance intake, DISA 3 stage intake with AA tune. My car weighed in at 3130 pounds with 3/4 tank and my 140 pound self sitting in it at a truck weigh station.

Ive never tracked my car, although i would like to. My driving is nearly entirely spirited daily driving and canyon runs once or twice a week.

I wanted a suspension setup that would catch up with the extra power of the car, be better composed (damped), perform better in quick transitions, solve the swinging, bouncing effect of the rear end, hunker the car down more, without being too low also as its my everyday driver and I am interested in performance more than the drop.

Reading the TCKline article and being thrilled with the results of the simple M3 control arms, I bought Koni sport shocks (yellows) , Condor Speed Shop UHMW solid rear subframe bushings, and finally was able to source individual springs from BMW Performance that come with the BMW performance suspension from locao dealer who found them in different parts of the country!

I had it all installed on Tuesday and i must say, the handling is so sublime, the 128i so well balanced, that i felt compelled to write a review / post of the setup.

The difference is night and day yet subtle. You dont notice a slammed car, jarring or bouncy ride. As a matter of fact, the car feels better composed, as if there is no drama.

The rear end seems non-existent , not constantly giving me the feeling of eggshells as the weight moved and bounced around through corners. It simply trails the front with no effort. And i dont feel ANY harshness yet. The car is more direct, i feel the road, but it is not shocking or hard. Again, as a matter of fact, the suspensions seems to have more control through the better damping and the less or no travel of the RSFB , makes it so there is less unnecessary activity so to speak, what i mean when i say without drama, the rear end is planted and simply trails the front. Awesome.

The front is something i havent felt in many street cars, perhaps in the e46 M3, but i dont remember: as you tighten the steering angle, or drive the car harder through corners, the front tucks in more and you find more grip! Like a suction effect into the apex of the corner, i turn more, the car pulls into the corner with more bite, the rear just follows. Beautiful!

This is what i feel the 128i should be, it feels "right " now. Although, now the suspension is so good, that i feel the need to balance it out with more power in the form of headers perhaps...

Hope this review was helpful as i searched fr months before deciding on what to get that suited my driving style budget and needs.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you all!

[John_01]

Glad you are enjoying it. The Konis are nice shocks as they give good handling and are also comfortable when they are set appropriately. The rear Subframe bushings make a big difference, and the added negative camber from the front arms is also a great upgrade. If you want to make the front of the car feel even tighter and responsive you can add a E92 M3 front sway bar. Tires will change the steering response too.

[mmmusty]

Originally Posted by John_01

Glad you are enjoying it. The Konis are nice shocks as they give good handling and are also comfortable when they are set appropriately. The rear Subframe bushings make a big difference, and the added negative camber from the front arms is also a great upgrade. If you want to make the front of the car feel even tighter and responsive you can add a E92 M3 front sway bar. Tires will change the steering response too.

Ho John, thanks for the Idea. I take it that would make it even less understeery? Any downsides, as in the handling becomes more snappy with oversteer for example?

Does it matter that it's the m3 front sway bar or can it be anything that fits as ling as stiffer and / thicker? My knowledge of this is low as you can see

How is installation?

[John_01]

The sway bar upgrade doesn't make the car overly snappy. It makes the car more responsive by reducing body roll. In this situation, less body roll is similar to having more negative camber in corners. When the car is flatter in corners, it allows the outside tire to perform better, especially at the front. To me it feels as though you get more steering response, just as though the front negative camber is increased.

The firmer front sway bar doesn't make the car very snappy or unstable. When you push the car towards the limits of traction there is a stabilising effect. In extreme cornering the effect of the stabiliser tends to lift the inside front wheel. That effect promotes understeer, because the inside front wheel otherwise generates forces to rotate the car into the corner. The two separate effects from better outside grip, and less inside grip starts to cancel each other to neutralise the handling balance. If you are tracking the car, the sway bar is still a help because it can reduce the damage to the outside shoulder of the tire. The front sway bar also makes the car more predictable in change of direction situation such as correcting oversteer.

Its possible to go too far with a firm front sway bar, as it will become out of balance with the rear suspension. That means the front stabiliser is too stiff compared to the rear. In that case it may not reduce understeer as much because it will transfer the cornering load to the outside front tire too quickly, which is not ideal for handling or grip. Ride quality will be affected is you will feel the car roll from side to side due to road surface imperfections.

For my car, the installation done by my mechanic, but I think it is very straightforward as a DIY. That is after you find all the screws to get the plastic underbody section off the car.

[mmmusty]

Originally Posted by John_01

The sway bar upgrade doesn't make the car overly snappy. It makes the car more responsive by reducing body roll. In this situation, less body roll is similar to having more negative camber in corners. When the car is flatter in corners, it allows the outside tire to perform better, especially at the front. To me it feels as though you get more steering response, just as though the front negative camber is increased.

The firmer front sway bar doesn't make the car very snappy or unstable. When you push the car towards the limits of traction there is a stabilising effect. In extreme cornering the effect of the stabiliser tends to lift the inside front wheel. That effect promotes understeer, because the inside front wheel otherwise generates forces to rotate the car into the corner. The two separate effects from better outside grip, and less inside grip starts to cancel each other to neutralise the handling balance. If you are tracking the car, the sway bar is still a help because it can reduce the damage to the outside shoulder of the tire. The front sway bar also makes the car more predictable in change of direction situation such as correcting oversteer.

Its possible to go too far with a firm front sway bar, as it will become out of balance with the rear suspension. That means the front stabiliser is too stiff compared to the rear. In that case it may not reduce understeer as much because it will transfer the cornering load to the outside front tire too quickly, which is not ideal for handling or grip. Ride quality will be affected is you will feel the car roll from side to side due to road surface imperfections.

For my car, the installation done by my mechanic, but I think it is very straightforward as a DIY. That is after you find all the screws to get the plastic underbody section off the car.

Thanks for the explanation John, that was also my understanding after reading about it. Is there or are there recommendations then for which sway bar to get based on my setup? Or is that why you recommended the M3 sway bar?

[Dackelone]

This is a good read. Just cross posting...

The Ultimate Handling Machine
TC Kline’s suspension tuning transforms the entry-level 128i Coupe into a car that can rival the 1 Series M Coupe for pure driving fun
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.WGRrCfkrLIU

[Sam_M]

Sounds like a great setup. Do you have a part number for the BMW springs mmmusty ?

[John_01]

Originally Posted by mmmusty

Thanks for the explanation John, that was also my understanding after reading about it. Is there or are there recommendations then for which sway bar to get based on my setup? Or is that why you recommended the M3 sway bar?

I recommend either the E92 or E93 M3 front sway bar. BMW OE item.
* Stiffness is suited to Performance or OE style spring setup.
* Include high quality rubber bushing setup that is both rigid and durable.
* There is a weight saving because OE sway bars are hollow.

I have the thicker E93 M3 front sway bar on my car which is 28mm diameter hollow tube.
If you intend to use the car purely as a road car, the smaller 26.5mm E92 M3 bar is probably the right choice.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

This is a good read. Just cross posting...

The Ultimate Handling Machine
TC Kline’s suspension tuning transforms the entry-level 128i Coupe into a car that can rival the 1 Series M Coupe for pure driving fun
http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...1#.WGRrCfkrLIU

Always enjoy reading this article.

[lowside67]

It is hard to read that you are thinking about spending more money on upgrades but still running no-name Chinese tires. The simple reality is that tires are without qualification the biggest modification to increase the performance of your car's handling. You are robbing yourself of overall performance and if you further "tune" the car's handling based on those tires, when you upgrade to a quality tire you will likely find that you will need to "start over" as the balance will be all different.

Also - you really need some more camber in the front, the 0.5 degrees provided by the M arms are a good start, but the car will still easily understeer. If you want an OEM solution that is a bit more street friendly than camber plates which have some downsides (primarily noise and secondarily increased maintenance) then I would suggest trying to track down the Dinan fixed camber plates which will give you more camber but without introducing adjustability.

Best of luck,
Mark

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by lowside67

It is hard to read that you are thinking about spending more money on upgrades but still running no-name Chinese tires...

^^I couldn't agree more. Heck I just replaced my two year old, wornout Michelin PS3's with the same size/speed rating Michelin PS4's... I couldn't believe how much smoother my car rode! As tires age they get hard(er). The added grip and response of brand new tires is also really nice! Even just pulling into my driveway the ride is so much better!

Hands down the best way to make your car feel like a new car... is new (quality)tires!

Dack

[John_01]

Agree with the comments about tires. Except I'm not a fan of the Michelin PS4. I found they are an extremely soft sidewall tire - much softer sidewall than the PSS.
Good for ride quality, but the steering response will be softer. In my case I was using 17" wheels, so that probably contributed to my dissatisfaction with the PS4.

[HP Autosport]

Can't beat Koni Yellows on how well they ride, but doesn't give up control.

[mmmusty]

While I understand and am aware of the difference quality tires make, the fact remains that this is a daily driver, that does not get tracked, sees little to no rain ever in Los Angeles, and is already able to handle far beyond what is going to be acceptable, and safe for the spirited canyon driving that i do...so really no need to spend twice the amount on tires that will in fact probably even LOWER MPG.

The reason for upgrading the suspension is mostly for feel, composure, transitions, dampening etc, not for overall road grip, or how much faster I can go through a corner. the stock suspension is not well damped, the rear end is floaty and bouncy, has a pendulum effect and feel, and the car is overall too soft... these attributes are what i was looking to change, which, that is taken care of now in spades.

Also, in regards to having to tune the suspension again based on having a "different balance" , how would that change anything other than the rebound adjustment I can make to the Konis? And this is a personal preference based on how i want to be driving daily, which i can adjust anytime, but i am actually quite happy with as is.

springs are set, i wasn't going with anything different on account of ride height and spring rate that i was looking for based on the "ultimate handling machine" article. so no other option there to change based on tires.

Konis are Konis, so no difference there either. Really nothing left based on, my goals, budget, the fact that i needed shocks, ride height, driving habits and so on.

The Dinan Camber plates are a great idea, but again, I have yet to get the car to push in the canyon driving that I do with the amount of driving skill i have to feel safe and in control.

the subjective feeling, confidence and overall ability of the car have drastically changed and make it feel as thought it should have been like this from the factory.

I dont know if I have neglected something that would change my choices in selecting the components and settings i have thus for for the suspension based on tires, if i am, enlighten me please!

[John_01]

Originally Posted by mmmusty

I dont know if I have neglected something that would change my choices in selecting the components and settings i have thus for for the suspension based on tires, if i am, enlighten me please!

IMO Probably not. However if you want to go further than this you definitely should try some better tires. You can certainly improve the steering feel and response. Also likely to have less understeer and its even possible reduce the body roll. Better tires will not deform as easily during cornering - so they allow you to have a better feel for the road and how the car is handling. A tire upgrade will generally make the car feel more settled on the road and improve safety in an emergency braking situation.

[mmmusty]

Originally Posted by John_01

IMO Probably not. However if you want to go further than this you definitely should try some better tires. You can certainly improve the steering feel and response. Also likely to have less understeer and its even possible reduce the body roll. Better tires will not deform as easily during cornering - so they allow you to have a better feel for the road and how the car is handling. A tire upgrade will generally make the car feel more settled on the road and improve safety in an emergency braking situation.

Indeed John, particularly the deforming sidewalls. At some point, when I can use them for what they're worth, I will upgrade tires.

[mmmusty]

Thanks for dropping knowledge on the Tires guys, I regret my decision in buying cheap tires now. What do you recommend for best bang for the buck, Im looking for tires that will particularly last long bang for the buck not just performance.

[John_01]

Best bang for buck to me looks like Michelin PSS - My opinion. They are not cheap, but they are durable if you drive sensibly. Also the cost saving of other alternatives in the US market isn't big enough to make me look at many other options. For some extra money the PSS appears to be worth it from a performance point of view. However you should get advice from buyers from US market, not me.

Other options I would look at if (Assuming you can get a very big $$ saving over Michelin PSS).
* Goodyear F1 Assymetric 2 (Not the 3) - but the 2 is OLD, and you probably wont be able to get any replacement tire if you need it later. The new Asymmetric 3 looks like downgraded performance for lower rolling resistance.
* Some Bridgestone tires such as S-04 and RE760 (this is an older design). These will be more like touring tires than sport tires, but could be a nice upgrade depending what you have now.

Look at some of the tire rack reviews such as these:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=218
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=190

[blue135]

There is another recent thread on this that covers the Conti DW. Assuming you want a summer tire that is non RFT, the Conti is what I recommend, but then the only other tires I have run on my 135 are Bridgestone summer and all season RFTs.

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by blue135

There is another recent thread on this that covers the Conti DW. Assuming you want a summer tire that is non RFT, the Conti is what I recommend, but then the only other tires I have run on my 135 are Bridgestone summer and all season RFTs.

So there is a lot of "internet" consensus that the DW (and the all season version the DWS) have soft sidewalls that is noticeable. I have personal experience with the DWS from a couple of years ago and I would say that it was definitely noticeable.

I don't think there is a new version of the DW yet, but what are your impressions in steering response compared to the runflats? The runflats have very stiff sidewalls and while they make for a tough ride the steering response would be excellent. I know I felt a distinct "delay" in steering response with the DWS - the car was an Audi A4 so it's more front heavy, but it was to a level that was not acceptable.

Try doing a few lane change manouevers at highway speed or left-right-left slalom transitions and see what you feel?

[blue135]

Ran 17" Potenza Pole Position (?) before I moved to 313s w/DW. I too have run DWS on three different vehicles and liked them, but to your question:

The only true head to head I can make is through mountains of West VA. RFTs were much more immediate in response. The DW is perhaps slower in response, but very predictable and consistent for me. Keep in mind that I am comparing 17" RFTs in 205/50 square vs 225/40,255/35 on 18". I much prefer the DW for ride and road adherence.

One thing, though, that has been very positive for me is rear end response on acceleration. The 17" on either summer or all season would allow the rear to squirm all over the place. The DW on 18" has eliminated most of that (not all), making use of the Dinan Stage 3 stuff much more predictable and controllable.

[asbrr]

Thanks - but yea you're right the 17" to 18" transition does add another variable to the mix....