FMIC - What to cut???

[vladr]

Does anyone have any pics of their car after the upgraded FMIC install (doesnt matter what brand)? I mean pics of how it looks after you cut it, in order to install the IC.

I want to see if its really THAT bad .....cutting the plastic to fit the aftermarket intercooler.

If anyone has any pics of the cut parts, after re-installing the stock intercooler, that would be great too.

Im trying to figure out EXACTLY what would need to be cut, in order to fit an AA intercooler.

ANY PICS of anything related would be great...I'm sure i can get an idea from any pics...

Also, does anyone know iff the part you cut would be hard or expensive to replace?

Thanks,
V

[RnmEvo9]

If you are really worried about cutting, an AA intercooler is not your best choice as it requires the most cutting aside from a Big Tom intercooler. Look into the ETS 5 inch core as it is a direct bolt on.

I will personally take some pics of what I took out in order to put in my Helix FMIC however I won't be able to show you the plastic I trimmed on the inside of the bumper tomorrow.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

If you are really worried about cutting, an AA intercooler is not your best choice as it requires the most cutting aside from a Big Tom intercooler. Look into the ETS 5 inch core as it is a direct bolt on.

I will personally take some pics of what I took out in order to put in my Helix FMIC however I won't be able to show you the plastic I trimmed on the inside of the bumper tomorrow.

Actually you are incorrect. The HPF IC has the deepest core and will require the most cutting of the plastic piece that lies behind the honeycomb lower grill. Look at the install and explanation vids on HPF's site, they show how much is cut and how it looks. To be honest its not a huge difference at all, its a piece of plastic you do not see at all from the outside, and if you went back to stock, again, wouldnt make a difference.

If you get an IC that requires no cutting, then theres no reason to buy it because for it to make a difference, the core needs to be deeper and larger, hence HPF, ER, AA.

[MilehighM3]

Actually the aa requires much more trimming than the ets unit. It is considerably taller than the ets and requires a lot of disassembly in order to cut the front core support with out damaging the p/s cooler or condenser. They have an install PDF on their website if you're curious, mine took a while to install with a lift air tools and a lot of experience...

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

Actually the aa requires much more trimming than the ets unit. It is considerably taller than the ets and requires a lot of disassembly in order to cut the front core support with out damaging the p/s cooler or condenser. They have an install PDF on their website if you're curious, mine took a while to install with a lift air tools and a lot of experience...

Hmm..wonder why its so damn easy to install an HPF IC when the HPF is actually deeper than the AA one than?? The only thing you need to cut is the plastic horizontal piece that sits behind the honeycomb grill. It is not near anything mechanical. The only disassembly required is taking off the undertray and removing the old intercooler...

Soooo not sure why you had such problems

[1NNO_35]

I removed the honeycomb (ugly as hell) and replaced it with black grill.. After that I cutted everything infront of the IC.

I have Forge IC and it didn't even need cuttting what so ever..

Now the front looks how it supposes to look IMO..

[thez99]

Originally Posted by 1NNO_35

I removed the honeycomb (ugly as hell) and replaced it with black grill.. After that I cutted everything infront of the IC.

I have Forge IC and it didn't even need cuttting what so ever..

Now the front looks how it supposes to look IMO..

What black grill??

Why did you cut shit if you didnt have too??

[vladr]

Originally Posted by thez99

Actually you are incorrect. The HPF IC has the deepest core and will require the most cutting of the plastic piece that lies behind the honeycomb lower grill. Look at the install and explanation vids on HPF's site, they show how much is cut and how it looks. To be honest its not a huge difference at all, its a piece of plastic you do not see at all from the outside, and if you went back to stock, again, wouldnt make a difference.

If you get an IC that requires no cutting, then theres no reason to buy it because for it to make a difference, the core needs to be deeper and larger, hence HPF, ER, AA.

is this true? it makes too much sense but i dont want it to be true lol....

thoughts....anyone?

[thez99]

Originally Posted by vladr

is this true? it makes too much sense but i dont want it to be true lol....

thoughts....anyone?

No im serious. The plastic pieces surrounding the stock IC were made to fit tight around it. So if you buy a new aftermarket intercooler that fits without cutting its obviously no larger, therefore no better at cooling or efficiency and therefore whats the point on spending the money. I will be buying a HPF IC very shortly, in my opinion that and the ER are the best and well worth the money. Much larger, smoother more efficient IC's well worth it.

[Si-M240i]

I have the Forge FMIC. No cutting required but later I removed the plastic "V" and the plastic cross strut to give better air flow. I also removed the honeycomb grill and fitted a Black, powder coated "Race Mesh" grill.....do a search for my Pic's

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Si-135i

I have the Forge FMIC. No cutting required but later I removed the plastic "V" and the plastic cross strut to give better air flow. I also removed the honeycomb grill and fitted a Black, powder coated "Race Mesh" grill.....do a search for my Pic's

Indeed..cuz the forge IC is half the size of the ER and HPF units. See statement above for reasoning

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by thez99

If you get an IC that requires no cutting, then theres no reason to buy it because for it to make a difference, the core needs to be deeper and larger, hence HPF, ER, AA.

Sorry but I personally feel that's an ignorant statement. The point of acquiring an aftermarket intercooler is to have reduced intake air temperature, better flow, reduced pressure loss etc all of which many intercoolers (ETS, AMS, etc) are quite capable of with proven research data and backed up by customer data. At the power levels most of us that are going to push for now (full bolt ons + meth at the most), an oversized intercooler is not needed as we are still limited in power at the moment thanks to fuel delivery.

Originally I was set on acquiring an ETS which definitely provides an adequate improvement over stock, but they were backordered and I didn't want to wait, so I went with my next choice with the Helix as they still replace what I feel is a restriction in the stock o ring connector. The size of it is overkill IMO, however, it did net me about 20+hp throughout the range compared to stock and it would be a nice companion to a rob beck turbo upgrade if I decide to go that route later in the future. I have tried to heatsoak this intercooler for days with much failure lol.

[thez99]

I truly do not feel this car is limited in power, we have two turbos, lots of torque. Sure we can unlock more with a flash, but already we are running a powerful engine. I think its important to run a larger, smoother intercooler. One that is of very good quality. Point is I feel the best about HPF's quality over others ive seen. And theyre the only ones to structure a stock connection for the inlet and outlets, thus negating any leaking silicon piping bullshit. Ive spoken with several people that work for HPF, ER and a few shops, they all feel the stock piping too and from the intercooler is not near as bad as some say. Unless you were to upgrade to bigger turbo's or have a single turbo with upwards of 25+ boost thered be no reason at all to mess with the stock piping, hence keep the stock connections, ease of install, no worry of leakage, excellent quality. The ER is nice that it has the aluminum pipe connecting to the charge pipe, but theres no reason for me to spend another $250 for that, specially when the ER core is over 300 cubic inches small and an inch shallower. Larger spaced cores without being TOO big allow for more airflow, more cooling efficiency. They were able to make the deepest one yet for the best cooling ability without negatively affecting turbo spool with lag, etc. In fact quite the opposite. I have a feeling ill be very happy.

[Juicehead]

I have HPF and the below pic shows what I cut...

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by thez99

Hmm..wonder why its so damn easy to install an HPF IC when the HPF is actually deeper than the AA one than?? The only thing you need to cut is the plastic horizontal piece that sits behind the honeycomb grill. It is not near anything mechanical. The only disassembly required is taking off the undertray and removing the old intercooler...

Soooo not sure why you had such problems

Because the aa unit mounts completely in front of everything, where the others are a deeper core mounted in the oem location. The aa unit is also 90% bigger, vs the 40-60% larger cores that others offer. I'll try to post up pics of mine to demonstrate what I mean. I've installed ets, hpf, aa and helix on the cars. AA kit is the most involved by far, and takes upthe most space where there is no space. You have to basically cut away everything almost up to the kidney grill openings and out to the insides of the bumper to make room for it.

[vladr]

Originally Posted by Juicehead

I have HPF and the below pic shows what I cut...

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR!!!!

But im loving the rest of the discussion. Please continue....

~V

PS: I am wondering how a smaller IC could be worthless if they [the companies/shops] have proof that they are better than stock. ---graphs, temps, etc...

I'm sure a smaller aftermarket FMIC vs a larger aftermarket FMIC is worth less (i.e larger > smaller), but when compared to stock, the same size aftermarket FMIC should be way better.....no?

[Juicehead]

Originally Posted by vladr;9870634
I'm sure a smaller [I

aftermarket [/I]FMIC vs a larger aftermarket FMIC is worth less (i.e larger > smaller), but when compared to stock, the same size aftermarket FMIC should be way better.....no?

In theory, yes, the larger the better. If you dumb it on down to simple thermodynamics, the more surface area you have, the better/faster cooling you get.

[vladr]

Originally Posted by Juicehead

In theory, yes, the larger the better. If you dumb it on down to simple thermodynamics, the more surface area you have, the better/faster cooling you get.

So you agree with some ppl on here that an aftermarket FMIC which is the same size as the stock on, doesnt help whatsoever, and should not be purchased?

How do companies like ETS stay in business then? --- I would love someone to hop on here and clarify, because I was considering their FMIC...

~V

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by vladr

So you agree with some ppl on here that an aftermarket FMIC which is the same size as the stock on, doesnt help whatsoever, and should not be purchased?

How do companies like ETS stay in business then? --- I would love someone to hop on here and clarify, because I was considering their FMIC...

~V

Look at this thread and you shall see that the ETS and AMS which require no cutting are efficient intercoolers from customer datalogs (towards the end).

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...mic+comparison

[MilehighM3]

Aftermarket units can still be a small improvement over stock if they flow better than stock. You can have less of a pressure drop across the ic which will gain a small amount of power and add responsiveness to the car. Think of the pressure drop as a restriction in the air path into the engine. Reducing the restriction will gain you some power, but reduce the restriction too much and the air passes through the ic too fast. This causes the air not to spend enough time in the ic which causes less heat dissipation and will further increase the heat soak effect.

The larger the ic is, the more lag you an expect to notice. The void is just too big in the air path, and takes slightly longer to fill before pressure can be built up by the turbos. So you can reach the point of negative returns with either a small or large intercooler. You would want larger if you live in hotter climates, run higher boost levels and/or bigger turbos.

The FMIC topic can be easily debated by any one in any direction. What's "best" is about as clear as which tune I best for the cars, which is also about as clear as mud... I picked mine based on driving style/car usage as well as planned power level for the car. I'm sure others do the same. I can tell you that AA, ETS, HPF and ER all are nice kits with good applications. Minimal trimming for the HPF, ETS and ER on the smaller cores. Pick where you want to be a get it done! I would hesitate to buy a core thats only 10% larger than stock. Don't be afraid to trim a little, the cars like a better ic...GL

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by thez99

I truly do not feel this car is limited in power, we have two turbos, lots of torque. Sure we can unlock more with a flash, but already we are running a powerful engine. I think its important to run a larger, smoother intercooler. One that is of very good quality. Point is I feel the best about HPF's quality over others ive seen. And theyre the only ones to structure a stock connection for the inlet and outlets, thus negating any leaking silicon piping bullshit. Ive spoken with several people that work for HPF, ER and a few shops, they all feel the stock piping too and from the intercooler is not near as bad as some say. Unless you were to upgrade to bigger turbo's or have a single turbo with upwards of 25+ boost thered be no reason at all to mess with the stock piping, hence keep the stock connections, ease of install, no worry of leakage, excellent quality. The ER is nice that it has the aluminum pipe connecting to the charge pipe, but theres no reason for me to spend another $250 for that, specially when the ER core is over 300 cubic inches small and an inch shallower. Larger spaced cores without being TOO big allow for more airflow, more cooling efficiency. They were able to make the deepest one yet for the best cooling ability without negatively affecting turbo spool with lag, etc. In fact quite the opposite. I have a feeling ill be very happy.

Its limited IMO compared to other platforms that I've blundered in. 500-600hp was usually the norm but I settled at around 420hp because to reach those power levels would require much more money. We are limited to 370-390hp on pump gas and about 420-430hp on race gas or meth. If you want more, there are turbo upgrades, but then the fuel delivery becomes an issue. Its all relative though as I feel 370hp 135i is not fast to me, however, its not slow either...

Also I want to get this clear, I didn't mean that the n54 can't make power. All I'm saying is that for the amount of hp most of us are going to push with typical bolt ons, an ETS or AMS intercooler is more than adequate!

Of course HPF would say the stock connections are fine, they are trying to sell you a product! I may not have an engineering degree, but anything that necks down to less than 2 inches would obviously obstruct flow IMO and hence why ETS or Helix were my choices. You are worried about blowing off silicone clamps...there is a reason why T-bolt clamps exist you know.

[1NNO_35]

Originally Posted by thez99

What black grill??

Why did you cut shit if you didnt have too??

Taking the honeycomb off wasn't that simple as I thought it was.. But it flew away easily with a mini chainsaw

Forge IC wouldn't need any cutting, but I wanted it to get as much air as possible.