Yet Another Track Day Virgin Thread

[1GrayBulldog]

I'm all signed up for my first HPDE event from June 7-8th down at Carolina Motorsports Park. I consider myself very fortunate to enter the world of tracking via a 2013 135i DCT, and that's not only because of the car's out-of-the-box capability but also due to the wealth of 1er tracking knowledge available here on 1addicts. I have thoroughly read through this subforum and while I am by no means unfamiliar with the principles of car control, vehicle dynamics, etc., my conclusion is that the best approach for a newbie is to focus on developing my driving ability and understanding of the E82's behavior on the track before modifying the stock suspension, braking and driveline components. Like everyone else here I am well aware of the E82's inherent limitations, but I'm convinced my dollar will go further, faster if it's spent on seat time before it's spent on bushings, coils, control arms, sways, etc. Plus, tracking the car before installing those mods will help me appreciate (and understand) each of them a heck of a lot more once they go on the car.

So, my plan for next month's HPDE is to keep suspension, braking and driveline components as close to stock as possible, although I will have the stock brake fluid swapped for Motul in the next week or so. As far as go-fast bits are concerned, I plan to keep my current mods on the car for the HPDE: JB4 w/30% E85 mix, BMS downpipe, BMS intake and Berk Street axle-back. I do have a CP and the BMS OCC installed as well.

I'm hoping to get your guys' thoughts on the following:

(1) Tires. I've currently got the stock 215F, 245R Dunlop RFTs stretched to fit on staggered (8"F, 9"R) 18" CSL reps. My goal was to suffer through the RFTs' tread life before putting on a set of beefier 235F, 265R Michelin PSS, and at ~13k miles the Dunlop RFTs are nearing their end, especially the rears. My dilemma is whether I should keep the RFTs on the car and burn through the last of them at the HPDE, or swap them out earlier than intended in order to have the Michelins on the car at the track? I have no problem with the prospect of flogging the car around the track for the first time on the RFTs, but my concern is that they will be so bad on the track that it'll hamper my enjoyment (and learning) at the HPDE. I've started to study CMP's layout and am particularly concerned about the RFTs going through the constant radius, multiple apex T5-T7 complex, the fast sweepers at T8, T9 and T10, and the opening radius T12.

(2) Brake Pads. I've got a ton of material left on the stock pads and would like to keep those on for at least this HPDE, as I can take advantage of the cost benefit of the factory maintenance program and I want to know more about my braking style and needs on the track before I make a decision on the right pad to compromise between track and DD use. Fortunately, CMP's layout looks to be less demanding on brakes than most. I understand there will be fade with the stock pads, but is it manageable enough that I can get through my first track event without swapping to a track pad?

(3) FMIC. Pretty similar thought process here as with the brake pads. I understand that the stock FMIC isn't going to keep up with cooling over a session, and that heat sink will bring diminishing returns from the N55. That being said, so far I've been pretty impressed with the stock unit's ability to keep up with the power mods on the car when I've pushed it hard on sustained runs through mountain backroads. My main concern is whether an N55 with my mods is at risk of hitting limp mode during a 25-min HPDE session. Seems that this (and oil cooling) is much less of an issue with the N55 than the N54, but it would suck to have to limp through the pits or end my sessions early. Factors to consider are that SC temps in early June are likely to be in the mid-80s, and CMP does have 4 meaningful straights, two of which are connected by quick off-throttle sweepers.

Thanks so much in advance for any and all direction you guys can provide, and really hope that I'll run into some fellow 1addicts at the track.

[02rsxpilot]

Originally Posted by 1GrayBulldog

I'm all signed up for my first HPDE event from June 7-8th down at Carolina Motorsports Park. I consider myself very fortunate to enter the world of tracking via a 2013 135i DCT, and that's not only because of the car's out-of-the-box capability but also due to the wealth of 1er tracking knowledge available here on 1addicts. I have thoroughly read through this subforum and while I am by no means unfamiliar with the principles of car control, vehicle dynamics, etc., my conclusion is that the best approach for a newbie is to focus on developing my driving ability and understanding of the E82's behavior on the track before modifying the stock suspension, braking and driveline components. Like everyone else here I am well aware of the E82's inherent limitations, but I'm convinced my dollar will go further, faster if it's spent on seat time before it's spent on bushings, coils, control arms, sways, etc. Plus, tracking the car before installing those mods will help me appreciate (and understand) each of them a heck of a lot more once they go on the car.

So, my plan for next month's HPDE is to keep suspension, braking and driveline components as close to stock as possible, although I will have the stock brake fluid swapped for Motul in the next week or so. As far as go-fast bits are concerned, I plan to keep my current mods on the car for the HPDE: JB4 w/30% E85 mix, BMS downpipe, BMS intake and Berk Street axle-back. I do have a CP and the BMS OCC installed as well.

I'm hoping to get your guys' thoughts on the following:

(1) Tires. I've currently got the stock 215F, 245R Dunlop RFTs stretched to fit on staggered (8"F, 9"R) 18" CSL reps. My goal was to suffer through the RFTs' tread life before putting on a set of beefier 235F, 265R Michelin PSS, and at ~13k miles the Dunlop RFTs are nearing their end, especially the rears. My dilemma is whether I should keep the RFTs on the car and burn through the last of them at the HPDE, or swap them out earlier than intended in order to have the Michelins on the car at the track? I have no problem with the prospect of flogging the car around the track for the first time on the RFTs, but my concern is that they will be so bad on the track that it'll hamper my enjoyment (and learning) at the HPDE. I've started to study CMP's layout and am particularly concerned about the RFTs going through the constant radius, multiple apex T5-T7 complex, the fast sweepers at T8, T9 and T10, and the opening radius T12.

(2) Brake Pads. I've got a ton of material left on the stock pads and would like to keep those on for at least this HPDE, as I can take advantage of the cost benefit of the factory maintenance program and I want to know more about my braking style and needs on the track before I make a decision on the right pad to compromise between track and DD use. Fortunately, CMP's layout looks to be less demanding on brakes than most. I understand there will be fade with the stock pads, but is it manageable enough that I can get through my first track event without swapping to a track pad?

(3) FMIC. Pretty similar thought process here as with the brake pads. I understand that the stock FMIC isn't going to keep up with cooling over a session, and that heat sink will bring diminishing returns from the N55. That being said, so far I've been pretty impressed with the stock unit's ability to keep up with the power mods on the car when I've pushed it hard on sustained runs through mountain backroads. My main concern is whether an N55 with my mods is at risk of hitting limp mode during a 25-min HPDE session. Seems that this (and oil cooling) is much less of an issue with the N55 than the N54, but it would suck to have to limp through the pits or end my sessions early. Factors to consider are that SC temps in early June are likely to be in the mid-80s, and CMP does have 4 meaningful straights, two of which are connected by quick off-throttle sweepers.

Thanks so much in advance for any and all direction you guys can provide, and really hope that I'll run into some fellow 1addicts at the track.

I'll chime in because I don't know many other folks on here that drove bone stock 135i on the track like I did (and basically still do).

1. Tires - I drove two events on RFTs. They are bad but they aren't horrible. Leave them on so that you'll really appreciate your better tires when you get them on.

2. Brakes - I experienced zero fade on OEM pads at two different tracks. Full dust shields and everything. They'll be just fine. If you swapped to something more aggressive, you would overwhelm the grip of the RFTs and find it harder to stay out of ABS. If you find the OEM pads aren't cutting it, focus on braking less!

3. FMIC - I can't help but laugh a little when your post starts off talking about the 1er's out of the box abilities, leading me to think it's stock, and then at the end you wrap up by listing about six engine mods. So, for whatever it's worth, the stock cooling system does just fine on my stock motor. If you are concerned about cooling, a good first step is going with a little more distilled water/less coolant mix and some water wetter.

25 minute track sessions will tax your system a million times harder than any canyon run possibly can, so I'd pretty much treat any data gained off track with a grain of salt. They are just two totally different worlds.

All-in-all though, welcome to the track club! It will give you a whole new appreciation for your car and the engineering that goes into them.

[3002 tii]

1) Burn through them, it'll make you enjoy the PSS that much more. Only reason I'd switch is if it doesn't pass tech.

2) You should be able to manage with stock pads, just be sure to do proper cool down lap and don't drag the brakes. I honestly can't see any driver fading stock pads on his first day at the track unless you're driving a really heavy car (ie e93 or something near the 4000lb mark).

3) FMIC should be fine, even if you experience diminishing returns you'll still get more power out of her than most other cars. If anything you may hit limp mode because of your tune and the extra boost you're running. Me personally I'd stick with the stock map and see how it goes. Don't see the benefit of running extra power since there's no race to be won. Just learn the line, look out for flaggers and others around you and listen to your instructor.

My whole mentality is keep costs down as low as possible, upgrade only when you need to. That's the best way to get most track time and learn without having any hardware mask your flaws/inputs. If you find that your car is hitting limp mode or what not, keep track of the time. If you're doing 25 min sessions and you know you've been on track for 22 mins, I'll take the last 3 mins easy which means an extra lap of cool down.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

1) Burn through them, it'll make you enjoy the PSS that much more. Only reason I'd switch is if it doesn't pass tech.

2) You should be able to manage with stock pads, just be sure to do proper cool down lap and don't drag the brakes. I honestly can't see any driver fading stock pads on his first day at the track unless you're driving a really heavy car (ie e93 or something near the 4000lb mark).

3) FMIC should be fine, even if you experience diminishing returns you'll still get more power out of her than most other cars. If anything you may hit limp mode because of your tune and the extra boost you're running. Me personally I'd stick with the stock map and see how it goes. Don't see the benefit of running extra power since there's no race to be won. Just learn the line, look out for flaggers and others around you and listen to your instructor.

My whole mentality is keep costs down as low as possible, upgrade only when you need to. That's the best way to get most track time and learn without having any hardware mask your flaws/inputs. If you find that your car is hitting limp mode or what not, keep track of the time. If you're doing 25 min sessions and you know you've been on track for 22 mins, I'll take the last 3 mins easy which means an extra lap of cool down.

All of this.

Change the fluid and run it as it currently sits. There is no need to upgrade items, as it will make you a slower driver and end up not learning from the mistakes you make until they bite you in the butt.

For example, stickier tires tend to not communicate as much, and have a different grip curve than an A/S or RFT tire. On a RFT tire, the tires might screech, then slowly start to lose grip...and progressively lose grip. It makes for an easy recovery.

But, on a stickier tire, they don't screech as loud, and when they reach their max grip...they let go very quick. You have to have quick hands to catch a slide or you're in deep trouble.

Just IMO

[135iam]

The only suggestion I would make to the OP is to run the first 3 sessions on stock tuning and then run the last session or 2 with a tune on the car.

One of the most fundamental things drivers need to learn to become fast on a road course is how to judge cornering speed. Zipping into a corner with an e85 tune and stock brakes and lousy stock suspension isn't a recipe for fast driving.

Have fun and be humble (yes someone in a stock looking miata will likely pass you. It's ok!)

[Nugget]

Run the car as is.
RFT aren't that bad on the track, ultimate grip isn't great but the stiff sidewalls mean they don't roll over.
Just use the brakes as is and monitor them.
Cooling is fine on the N55 at stock levels. It's really only an issue once you start running a tune. Maybe try running the mildest JB4 map possible to begin with.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by 135iam

The only suggestion I would make to the OP is to run the first 3 sessions on stock tuning and then run the last session or 2 with a tune on the car.

One of the most fundamental things drivers need to learn to become fast on a road course is how to judge cornering speed. Zipping into a corner with an e85 tune and stock brakes and lousy stock suspension isn't a recipe for fast driving.

Have fun and be humble (yes someone in a stock looking miata will likely pass you. It's ok!)

Yea, no tune.

The last sessions of the day is when you can get into trouble.

135i Owner with JB4 running an aggressive tune (he said around 360 at wheels). Anyways, this was the last session.

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by 1GrayBulldog

... but I'm convinced my dollar will go further, faster if it's spent on seat time before it's spent on bushings, coils, control arms, sways, etc. Plus, tracking the car before installing those mods will help me appreciate (and understand) each of them a heck of a lot more once they go on the car.

You are obviously quite disciplined to avoid the mistake of upgrading before seat time. All credit to you
Aside from developing a feel for your vehicle towards the limit, you will have the opportunity to document changes - favorable or unfavorable - at every stage of modification, from stock to aggressive track-prep.

Alternatively, if you intend to drive only a couple of times on circuit (where enjoyment is the objective), then it may be less important when and how modifications are introduced into a street car.

As others have kindly mentioned, OEM equipment is adequate initially - perhaps just recognise that deep into a session, and as you drive with increasing confidence, the performance of brakes and tyres may deteriorate (the only difference between OEM and competition-grade consumables is the stress/tolerance level ie both will eventually fail). Common sense and traction control can help protect you under these circumstances.

CMP does look like a fun track. Good luck

[hoki06]

Don't do anything to the car but change to DOT-4 brake fluid and make sure you have plenty of meat on the stock pads! If your pads look kinda low, grab another set of stockers as back up. Otherwise leave the car completely stock, especially tires, suspension, and power.

The car will have more in it than you can drive for quite a while even with stock tires. Leave the car alone, go listen to your instructor, and have fun. Mod the driver first then mod the car to suit your needs.

[1GrayBulldog]

Can't thank you fellas enough for all the great advice and clearing up those questions I had. I really really appreciate it!

While the consensus input on brake pads and FMIC are in line with what I expected, I'm actually quite surprised that 100% have voted in favor of keeping the stock runflats on the car. I was almost positive that the advice would have been the complete opposite! While I was ready to pony up the cash for new rubber (and probably rear fender rolls to fit), I'd much rather get all that I can out of whats on the car before that day comes.

[1GrayBulldog]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Yea, no tune.

The last sessions of the day is when you can get into trouble.

135i Owner with JB4 running an aggressive tune (he said around 360 at wheels). Anyways, this was the last session.

That's pretty awesome you got that on film!

So was this a mechanical failure that caused the guy to go off, or was it a matter of him not being able to control putting down the power with the tune on the car?

[FactorX81]

Did my first HPDE in April in a mostly stock car(apex wheels PSS tires which are about a year old). Stock brakes had 11000 Miles front and 15000 in the back when I got there 4800 front and 10000 back after 2 days of lapping(8 30 minute sessions). I brought a set of extra pads I did not wind up needing. It was pretty cool out so I had no overheating problems or anything. The car in stock form was much more capable than I was and I had a great time learning. My PSS did get a little abused on the front outside shoulders but they are fine. So just change that brake fluid and get out there and have fun.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by 1GrayBulldog

That's pretty awesome you got that on film!

So was this a mechanical failure that caused the guy to go off, or was it a matter of him not being able to control putting down the power with the tune on the car?

He went on the power early.

At mid-ohio, going into thunder valley you go over a hill where the car gets light. You don't modulate the throttle correctly and/or don't control it....you end up in the tires.

[1GrayBulldog]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

He went on the power early.

At mid-ohio, going into thunder valley you go over a hill where the car gets light. You don't modulate the throttle correctly and/or don't control it....you end up in the tires.

That was exactly the spot I thought it was when I first saw that pic! I've actually been to 2 ALMS races at Mid-Ohio back when I lived in Kentucky, and that rise before Thunder Valley was one of my favorite places to watch because of the vastly different behavior of the P and GT cars in negotiating the hill. Mid-Ohio and Mosport are at the top of my track-day wish list, so I'm crazy jealous you've run there before!

[135iam]

like Kgolf31 mentioned, accidents tend to be at the end of the day when drivers get tired, track temps get warmer (greasy tires), and people get brave. So I would change my recommendation to stock tuning all day.

I did mostly NASA track days for 5+ years straight (but I assume other orgs are similar) and it's a fun progression from beginner/intermidiate/advanced then W2W if desired.
What you learn in the first few events are really important to being one of the fast drivers later on so dont be in a rush to loose an instructor if provided.
I'm sure if people here are honest we can all share experiences with slow drivers in fast cars messing up the advanced run groups. (drag racing down the straights, cornering slow, not situationally aware, etc.) Things like this make other drivers wonder "Who the F#*K ok'ed this jagoff to run in the advanced group?

Things like traffic management can really be honed in beginner groups. Ex: if you know you are going to pass someone on the next straight dont tailgate them, let up a bit get a run on them through the turn and eat them up coming onto the straight so they pretty much have to point you by.

I'm sure there are thousands of tips you could get from drivers on here

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by 1GrayBulldog

That was exactly the spot I thought it was when I first saw that pic! I've actually been to 2 ALMS races at Mid-Ohio back when I lived in Kentucky, and that rise before Thunder Valley was one of my favorite places to watch because of the vastly different behavior of the P and GT cars in negotiating the hill. Mid-Ohio and Mosport are at the top of my track-day wish list, so I'm crazy jealous you've run there before!

Yep. I love Mid-O...right in my backyard.

Been there a couple times for races and track days.

Madness it fun to watch as well

[OLEK135i]

Agree with all the posts on here. I would add that instead of bringing another set of stock pads as backup, go ahead and bring the next set of pads you plan to upgrade to. That way, if you do go through the stock pads, your next set will be your upgraded pads (my personal favorite for a dd and track use pad is ferodo, or you can use the hawk HP+). Keep in mind that most bmw dealers will not replace your pads in the first or second year of your service. They will cite evidence of "racing" as they all have a "formula" in which they expect a certain mileage to be accumalated before replacing the pads (as well as rotors, most won't change rotors under 20,000 miles). I was lucky to find an SA at a BMW dealer who was a BMW club member and enjoyed "track", but he too said "I can only do this for you one time, I can't do this every year". I recommend running stock tune, as I have no mods on my engine and have luckily not encountered any issues others have described with overheating. Most improtantly, don't worry so much (and therefore create an atmosphere for yourself where you not need worry by running stock and not making too many changes to the car), listen to your instructor and HAVE FUN! You will go through the same progression others have in upgrading your car as your abilities increase directly with your seat time. In regards to Michelin PSS, I would recommend Dunlop DZ IIs over the Michelin PSS. They are cheaper and better for the track. Noisier than PSS for DD, and less wet traction, but better for track (dry) and auto-x. RFTs are fun to cord at the track (until you have to drive the speedlimit for 200+ miles to get back home ) Keep in mind that you should "break-in" any new tires before going to the track. Fresh street tires are initially slick.

[turbowolfe]

Everything in this thread is spot on. I really don't have much more to add, but just have fun. I don't frequent this forum often, but reading this thread has been refreshing!

Just like everyone else, I just have suspension mods, m3 bits, ast4100 and wheels. No power mods, no overheating (n55). The car is plenty powerful. Glad to see more people driving their cars on track. I hope to see you chicago guys out there soon!