[stressdoc]

How much do you think the 335i will be priced above the 330i? Let's keep it simple and have a modicum of other extras besides the engine and necessary brakes, suspension, wheels, interior (alcantara?), & minor exterior tweaks, similar to M-sport package. I.e., just a 6 sp manual trans.

[Nikki]

It should be priced competitively with the S4, since the new M3 will compete with the RS4. That being said, my guess is ~$48k, but I don't know how much the M3 is going to be so I'm just basing that off of the competition.

[E90-4life]

Originally Posted by Nikki

It should be priced competitively with the S4, since the new M3 will compete with the RS4. That being said, my guess is ~$48k, but I don't know how much the M3 is going to be so I'm just basing that off of the competition.

That would make no sense. This car will NOT be an M3, that's why they're still making an M3, so therefore this car shall be priced as a mid-range 3 and NOT an M3. Not to mention production for the RS4 will not be going for that much longer as the RS models signal the end of a generation.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by E90-4life

That would make no sense. This car will NOT be an M3, that's why they're still making an M3, so therefore this car shall be priced as a mid-range 3 and NOT an M3. Not to mention production for the RS4 will not be going for that much longer as the RS models signal the end of a generation.

So you're saying that a 330hp (that is what I read, correct me if this is wrong) 3 series would not compete with a 335hp S4?
And the RS4 is only beginning production here, what do you mean?

[E90-4life]

Read, re read again.

[theclay]

If it's more than 6k forget it.

[eshamas21]

it should be the same price differential between then 325 and and 330 about 6K give or take

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by E90-4life

Read, re read again.

or stop acting like you know everything and respond to my post.

[davinet78]

i think that 6000 is reasonable

[RichReg]

Nothing like a poll on an imaginary vehicle.

Seriously, if it ever comes out, its likely that they'll package it as a ZHP version. So expect an E46 ZHP-type premium.

[Nikki]

Here is an article about the new M3 pricing, if this is correct then YES, the 335 would compete with the S4 and the M3 would compete with the RS4. £45,000 coverts to $82,890:

M3 latest (26/07/05)
The new M3 will definitely use the new V8 4.0 litre unit based on the new M5 V10. It will develop 406 Bhp & cost around £45,000 at today's prices. BMW are also planning a four-door saloon version & Touring model. The newly developed V8 with 48 valves will have an alloy block, each bank of four cylinders will be at a 90 degree angle, electronically actuated throttle valves for each cylinder, third-generation double-Vanos variable valve timing & the latest MS S65 engine management system. With 309ib ft of torque an increase of 40 Ib ft on today's M3, with light-weight aluminum pistions the new engine is said to retain the M3's character, it should be cable of revving to 8250 Rpm. Placed further back in the engine bay as the V8 is shorter than the straight six cylinder engine, giving the car a better centre of gravity & balance for better handling. Standard six-speed manual or seven-speed SMG with drivelogic function & launch control. Also planned is a light-weight version CSL complete with carbon-fibre panels & even more power. Sales are predicted to start mid-2007.

edit: let me add though that the RS4 was expected to be $80k and they are actually going to sell it for more like $60k, so I would guess that the M3 should be more like $60k as well. Also, pricing is different in other countries than the US, but it is obvious that regardless, the M3 is getting a decent price jump due to it's increase in performance. Let's face it, the 335 is supposed to have 330hp, which is what the old M3 had, so offering it at the old M3 price makes sense!

[ward]

who cares how much HP the alleged 335 has?? it's not an M car and shouldn't be M priced. Anyone paying over 50 for a 3 series (non M) is a silly silly person who should not be trusted with money

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by ward

who cares how much HP the alleged 335 has?? it's not an M car and shouldn't be M priced. Anyone paying over 50 for a 3 series (non M) is a silly silly person who should not be trusted with money

well if it has as much hp as the old m3 used to have then shouldn't it be priced as so?

[CC 330i]

It's nearly impossible to get an E46 M3 for less than $60K, so I wonder about the new M3. I am thinking at least $65K. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 335i go for about $55K.

[ZenDriver]

I think the 335i will be priced the same as the present 330i. The 330i will take the 325i slot and the 325i will be dropped in the US. The "New" 330i will get the same standard equipment as the 325i while the 335i will be equipped identically to today's 330i.

Reasons:

1- While the M3 gets all the press, the 330i gets a bit less press and the 325i gets nearly no ink, the sales figures for these cars are the exact opposite. The 325i outsells the 330i by a ratio of 3:1. Same is true for Audi, the 1.8L A4 outsells the 3L handily.

2- The 330i costs BMW only a few bucks more then the 325i to build, but BMW's profit margin on the 330i is far higher then the 325i. This is the big scam of the auto industry- costs to build a car are relatively fixed, especially given the amount of automation today. Having Gunther bolt up 11" brake discs instead of 10" brake discs costs pennies, installing extra features takes seconds on a line as efficient as Liepzig and options people pay thousands for cost BMW next to nothing. My point here is that BMW really has the room to play with in the present lineup without really changing the profit structure.

3- Having a $30K base model with 250bhp would blow the low end of the competition away. Yes, there IS a horsepower war going on. As absurd as it is, BMW needs to win in order to keep the mantle as the performance car company. Having a base model with 250bhp, a middle model with 330 and the flagship with 400+ would knock the doors off of Audi, Merc, Lexus and Infinity.

[Nikki]

There is no way the BMW would do that. They could raise all of their prices by $10k and still make tons of money.

[ward]

Originally Posted by Nikki

well if it has as much hp as the old m3 used to have then shouldn't it be priced as so?

only if the performance is up to speed,

the 255 hp current 330 will get it's ass handed to it by a 240 hp M3

if they give the alleged new model M type performance then maybe it's worth M money, but I highly doubt the alleged 335 will hold a candle to the E46 M3, it'll probably perform about the same as an E36 M3

[E90-4life]

Originally Posted by Nikki

or stop acting like you know everything and respond to my post.

Haha, typical girl response? I'm assuming your a girl/woman/lady? Internet can be so impersonal... To answer your question, YES, the 335 would probably end up competing w/ the S4, though that's not the intended target, as is the case w/ so many other cars out on the market. Take the S40 for instance, it has all the content of an Audi or BMW but in a less expensive package than an A4 or 3er, and as in many magazines, it has been compared to the latter two though it's aimed more at the Jetta/entry level near luxury small car category, but w/ the content and features the S40 has, not to mention the image, it's seen as been slightly more upmarket than a Jetta, and thus recives that comparison. I dont know that that was the best example, but I hope it makes sense none the less?

[E90-4life]

A few members have reiterated this sentiment throughout this thread, and in agreement I say that by no means will BMW market this car as some sort of less expensive version of an M3, it's not an M car. M car are of a completely different breed than your std. issue BMW, these cars are built as stand alone models from the very beginning of the development stage. It's not the case as w/ MB where any and every Mercedes Benz can be an AMG and the only thing serpearating an AMG from an regular Benz is the engine and a few chassis/suspension modifications that are barely detectable, it's just an even more glorified MB.

[obLu]

Dropping the 325, making the 330 base and moving the 335 to current 330 spot makes a bit of historical sense; since they like to carry over engine sizes on the first year of a new model and then upgrade them two years in. Think 328i e46 becomes 330i e46 etc.

I just can't see them having a 325i, 330i, 335i and an M3. But they've got a 525i, 530i, 550i and an M5. So who knows. :dunno:

My guess is the diff in price will be close to the same as the 530i / 550i is now, whatever that is (too lazy to look). Starting price will be say 48k? It would compete nicely with the likes of the S60R and CTS-V. Cars not in the same league, but in the same horsepower per dollar bracket (sorta in the case of the cts-v).

Which I seriously considered for a few months btw. 400hp for 45k (employee discount promotion even before any hard negotiation) is a lot to argue against. I drove one a few different times and it isn't actually a bad handling car, not great but any lack of grip or balance can be overcome with the power. The only thing that kept me from it was that I figured I'd probably only have fun with it for a year or two before it wore on me, and the shifter sucked. Interior material and fit quality was about on par with the e90 (BMW has *never* been known for it's pretty interiors, it's just not the point of the car) actually ... but I think 3 series interiors are barely passable, convince yourselves otherwise if you must.

The point of my rambling is that if you can get a die-hard german car guy like me to seriously consider a Cadillac, BMW has to know that they're loosing market share by being down on power. When you actually drive the car, it matters less, but on paper they're loosing out to everybody.

They desperately need this car [335] to maintain image and I'm surprised it won't be here sooner.

[Nikki]

You still haven't answered anything that I said. For example, your statement regarding the RS4.

[ZenDriver]

They could raise all of their prices by $10k and still make tons of money.

I know your a fangirl, but that just isn't true.

There was a time when you could get into a BMW and the driving experience was so head and shoulders above the competition that even the 6 right turn test drive with a salesbot would blow you away. Well, it took them years, but the competition is finally catching up- I test drove a G35 coupe and was blown away by how growly and nice it was for a gussied up Nissan and it costs a LOT less then a 330i to boot. Is it a BMW? Hell no, but it is pretty damn close to a BMW and it costs a good bit less then the comparable car with the spinny propeller badge. I am sure the same will hold true for the IS350 and that new Merc C350 is looking pretty hot... and the Audi with the Direct Shift Gearbox is looking nice as well.

Like I said in another post, BMW is just a car company and 95% of all BMW buyers are schmucks who couldn't care less about the driving dynamics- they want a nice car, they want it to have lots of "pickup" when they press the pedal, they want wiz bang gizmos inside and they want a luxury nameplate.

And here is the painful part- they are right!

Nobody on this board has the driving skill to readily tell the difference between the way a G35 or a BMW 330i handles. There are, perhaps 1000 people on the planet who have the raw talent to drive a modern sports sedan to 10/10th and be able to extract more performance out of one or the other. That extra 50 or so horsepower difference between all these cars is utterly meaningless. I'm stuck tooling around in a god damn Volvo S40 without the turbo (horrible car, ask me and I'll start another thread on why it sucks) until my E92 arrives and I can drive it plenty fast to make any passenger puke- do I really need another 100bhp, stickier tires, a sports suspension?

Performance numbers are meaningless, consumers are after the BBD- the Bigger, Better Deal. Until BMW releases that, they are gonna loose customers to Lexus, Infiniti and Audi. Just ask Mercedes what those Japanese engineers can do to your flagship vehicle sales numbers....