Does the DTC/DSC lower your driving skills

[imported_mega]

some people seem to think so, I got emails from one of the posters here swearing at me

but I think a mod deleted them from the forum

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by mega

some people seem to think so, I got emails from one of the posters here swearing at me

but I think a mod deleted them from the forum

Some people are just status seekers and got 135I's or even 128 just for show. Anyone with a high hp car should be able to handle the car without driving aids. If not there is no way these people belong in high hp rwd cars.I just hope that these people are not inquiring on tunes,supensions and mods. It doesnt mean that because I and some other users turn off traction control because its so intrusive that were street racers(the damn thing cuts the power when I drive over a train track(everyday) or hit some imperfections on the road.Thinking that dsc and abs will save youre life is foolish. Thats why I see yaris ,civic speeding everyday on the highway because the owners think that the nannys will save them from a limited car or their limited driving skills. Same for idi$$# speeding in their suv in the winter without snow tires because its 4x4(hello snow tires). Nowadays people cant read maps and need gps....the computers will do it all for them nor do we need reverse sensors turn your head and look in the mirrors truckers driving semis use that technique.
Im stating my opinion bring on the flaming.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Gray135i

I have to disagree to an extent with Jeremyc74. In a million or so miles of driving, I've avoided a lot of accidents. DSC is better than a human in most circumstances because it can modulate individual brakes where I can only apply brakes all at once. The problem I have is the lack of control of the car with the DSC active. Like some others, I've had problems with the engine's powere being cut when I needed it the most. More importantly for me is that I can't put the car into a drift. I've been in several situations where the only way I avoided getting hit was by putting the car in a drift parallel to a car coming at me. There has never been a single instance in any of my driving where DSC would have done a better job than myself. With that said however, in uncertain conditions like rain, snow or ice, I will take advantage of the nannies. On clear dry roads or dirt roads, I will always keep all of the nannies off. I have a lot of track experience and pay attention when I'm driving. I don't talk on the cell phone, I know where every car or animate object is around me but also pay attention to the driver's of the cars around me. I know who's on the cell, who's reading, which way they're looking and even when they check their mirrors. Call me paranoid, but I am a very defensive aggressive driver if that makes any sense. I like having the option, but I will never buy a car where the traction controls are not defeatable.

I'm not buying this for a second. Faced with a split second life or death decision to make, NO ONE is flooring the gas, and a car stops faster going straight than it does sliding sideways so this idea of "putting the car into a drift" holds no water at all.

[xbook]

No I don't think using the DTC/DSC makes you a worse driver. There are so many other things to go into that make people a bad driver, following too closely, going to fast for the conditions, not paying attention to the road, improper sight lines. The list is endless. Having an electronic aid to help prevent spins, and wheel spin is not going to make you a worse driver.

If you don't like DSC, then turn it off. They have a little button right on the dash, n' everythang...are you really so lazy and bitchy that you can't hit the freakin button? What do you want next a BMW rep to come and wash your nut sack after you've been driving?

I for one am really happy that the vehicle defaults to having that system on. Yes there are probably a handful of drivers in every town that can drive this car really well, and have no need for DTC, DSC, ABS, etc. But, the MAJORITY of drivers out there are atrocious. I WANT the majority of drivers to have driver aids when a 300HP car is at play. I have driven the canyons here in Los Angeles for years, driving my commute. In my 15+ years of going up and over the various canyons here in LA, to get to and from work, I have witnessed 1, count it, 1 other driver that was taking proper apexes, and hitting their lines. And trust me, I look out for that kinda stuff.

So, if people can't drive a car properly, it's a good thing that manufacturers have put systems in place to help, not the people in the car that is out of control, but the innocent people that might have damage done to them by another bad driver.

[lib]

Originally Posted by mega

I found how to turn it off on lexus

...

whoever came up with those instructions must play a lot of Nintendo

Steps like that are fairly standard in most cars today as a means to access features the manufacturer doesn't think most people will mess with.

Our cars have similar secret codes for resetting the slush box, testing dials & lights, accessing secret configuration menus, etc.

[Gray135i]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I'm not buying this for a second. Faced with a split second life or death decision to make, NO ONE is flooring the gas, and a car stops faster going straight than it does sliding sideways so this idea of "putting the car into a drift" holds no water at all.

So you've never been in a situation where it's better to accelerate than to brake to avoid an accident? Are you one of those people that stops on the bottom of an on-ramp and endanger your life and those around you, or do accelerate to match the speed of traffic? There are a lot of instances where accelerating is a lot safer than braking. Have you never had someone run a stop sign heading at the back end of your car? If you hit the brakes, you're likely to get killed. I agree with your logic for the most part however. You'll never find a car where the 0-60 distance is even close to the 60-0 distance. Obviously brakes are a very useful tool in defensive driving but steering and throttle are just very useful as well, assuming the ability to use them.

[EspressoBoy]

Originally Posted by mega

some people seem to think so, I got emails from one of the posters here swearing at me

but I think a mod deleted them from the forum

Maybe a good thing then. This site is for helping not hating.

Different opinions are good though.

I won't even ask what it was...

EspressoBoy

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by mtla4

... Same for idi$$# speeding in their suv in the winter without snow tires because its 4x4(hello snow tires)...

for some reason I find it very amusing that mtla4 uses 'idi$$#' instead of 'idiot' when other people in this thread have thrown around the words 'dick' and 'nut sack'. mtla4, you are a gentleman amongst scalawags. :biggrin:

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Gray135i

So you've never been in a situation where it's better to accelerate than to brake to avoid an accident? Are you one of those people that stops on the bottom of an on-ramp and endanger your life and those around you, or do accelerate to match the speed of traffic? There are a lot of instances where accelerating is a lot safer than braking. Have you never had someone run a stop sign heading at the back end of your car? If you hit the brakes, you're likely to get killed. I agree with your logic for the most part however. You'll never find a car where the 0-60 distance is even close to the 60-0 distance. Obviously brakes are a very useful tool in defensive driving but steering and throttle are just very useful as well, assuming the ability to use them.

Sure I've been in situations where I needed to get out of someone's path, but I've NEVER been in a situation like that and had a stability control system prevent me from doing it, and my last four cars (for a total of over 200k miles of driving) have had it.

There are VERY few emergency situations where a human will move the car forward faster with the traction control turned off. If the tires are spinning, you're NOT moving forward, and that why the DSC cuts power. It wasn't doing any good anyway.

On top of that, the chances that you're going to be in the proper gear for maximum accelleration at the split second one of your few examples occurrs makes it unlikely that the traction control would even come into play.

To sum it all up, you're FAR better off with it left on under normal driving conditions than to have it turned off on the unlikely chance that it might hinder you from getting out of someone else's path.

[Addict...Nah Im A Junkie!]

I honestly drive my '98 M roadster like a grandma on most occasions (in '98 there was no traction control). I revel in the fact that I look so damn cool driving it and reassure myself that people can actually see how cool I am the slower I drive....hell, gotta give the ladies some time to stare and blow kisses. I mean, really it's like I'm James Bond over here sometimes (I even rock my black on black ///M driving gloves). But seriously, the car is really just not appropriate for most situations called "daily driving". But, I have no problem with that(if I were still 17, different story). I guess I'm just old now. But on the track, and when the po-po aren't around on an empty highway......she's a fast little demon!!! Drive safe. It's not just you out there.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by rushbmw

Does anyone else feel that all these safety features lowers your driving skill?

Yes.. but I like having the option. I enjoy being able to keep the pedal to the floor while not having to worry about the expensive tires going up in smoke.

[rushbmw]

[quote=xbook;265687]

If you don't like DSC, then turn it off. They have a little button right on the dash, n' everythang...are you really so lazy and bitchy that you can't hit the freakin button? What do you want next a BMW rep to come and wash your nut sack after you've been driving?

Who is this being implied too?

[xbook]

[QUOTE=rushbmw;267302]

Originally Posted by xbook

If you don't like DSC, then turn it off. They have a little button right on the dash, n' everythang...are you really so lazy and bitchy that you can't hit the freakin button? What do you want next a BMW rep to come and wash your nut sack after you've been driving?

Who is this being implied too?

Anyone who gets bitchy about having to hit the DSC off.

[adc]

Back on track: when driving on track :smile:, I usually turn it off, at least in the dry. At Oktoberfest at Watkins Glen when driving in the rain I left it on and was very glad it was there.

I also leave it on typically driving on the highway whether dry or not, but sometimes I turn it off when driving small roads. I've noticed that I am generally much more alert and proactive when that light is on. And when my son comes on board, the DSC stays on all the time.


If these cars had a mechanical limited slip, they would work much better with DSC/DTC on because it would intervene far less. I found that to be the case while whipping an E90 M3 in the rain, where I saw the DSC activate only about 20-30% of the time compared to the 135i or 335i.

Runflats are also definitely a cause for the DSC/DTC to activate earlier and more frequently. My car with Pirelli hi perf all seasons is much better in this respect than it was with the OEM runflats.

[rushbmw]

Originally Posted by adc

Back on track: when driving on track :smile:, I usually turn it off, at least in the dry. At Oktoberfest at Watkins Glen when driving in the rain I left it on and was very glad it was there.

I also leave it on typically driving on the highway whether dry or not, but sometimes I turn it off when driving small roads. I've noticed that I am generally much more alert and proactive when that light is on. And when my son comes on board, the DSC stays on all the time.


If these cars had a mechanical limited slip, they would work much better with DSC/DTC on because it would intervene far less. I found that to be the case while whipping an E90 M3 in the rain, where I saw the DSC activate only about 20-30% of the time compared to the 135i or 335i.

Runflats are also definitely a cause for the DSC/DTC to activate earlier and more frequently. My car with Pirelli hi perf all seasons is much better in this respect than it was with the OEM runflats.

I think your right with this. Im trying to not be too judgemental about the DTC/DSC. A LSD would help the 135i alot and getting rid of the run flats would surely improve it as well. Im would be much happier with the DTC/DSC if I could put the power down to
the road.

[adc]

Originally Posted by rushbmw

I think your right with this. Im trying to not be too judgemental about the DTC/DSC. A LSD would help the 135i alot and getting rid of the run flats would surely improve it as well. Im would be much happier with the DTC/DSC if I could put the power down to
the road.

All you have to do is test drive an M3 on the roads you are familiar with - it will blow your mind away. Then again, I can't take my mind off the M3 now, so perhaps it wasn't such a good idea...