AMS Tests the CP-E standback! Our choice for N54 ECU tuning!

[Eric@AMS]

AMS has been quietly evaluating many of the performance products for the vehicles that come equipped with the N54 powertrain. More specifically, we’ve sampled a few engine management systems on the market today and we’ve found each have their respective pros and cons. However we feel the cp-e Standback has the best blend of cost, performance, and end-user adjustability, which is why we’ve chosen to use it for our upcoming twin-turbo upgrade and possibly single kits. We’d like to share our experiences with the product so far.

We started communicating with cp-e back in March because we were interested in hearing more about their Standback engine management system. cp-e had promised its release on several occasions in the recent past, but after some deliberation they decided to wait each time so they could further polish the product. We originally took interest in the Standback because it offered some end-user adjustability that other products did not provide so we were interested in seeing if it could live up to the hype.

This past May cp-e sent us a Standback unit sample. We installed the test unit it into our 335i and immediately noticed some things that separated it from the other systems we tested.




First, the unit isn’t an off the shelf component that was adapted to the N54. cp-e has been using the Standback on direct injected and turbocharged vehicles since early 2007, even if it wasn’t on BMW’s specifically. The unit was designed and built in-house by cp-e’s engineers, and uses some of the latest hardware in order to quickly respond to changing conditions. For instance, the processor that tracks the crank wheel can stay locked to the sensor with accelerations of up to 50,000rpm/sec, which is far faster than any N54 can rev, heh.



The boost system is pretty trick as well. Not only is it incredibly precise, but cp-e makes it very easy to change boost pressure. In the software there is a “boost control” window where you may enter your desired boost pressure in for both primary and secondary maps (the unit can store two maps). You can see in the screen shot we have fifteen and seventeen psi selected. What that means is, if the turbos can make the pressure you’re requesting then you’ll get it.

The boost control is also standalone in that it doesn’t command a factory boost curve that’s simply elevated over stock. This is important because tuning a vehicle with varying boost pressure during a run can be very tricky. You can really command a very stable, and flat boost curve which will make serious tuning more straight forward.




This is a log with the Standback set to 14 pounds, and as you can see it does a pretty good job at holding that pressure. The end-user doesn’t have to used a fixed boost pressure either.




If you get fancy you can actually adjust the target pressure relative to engine rpm and throttle position too. You just open one of the boost tables and tell the Standback when to target whatever pressure you want.

In addition to boost the Standback can adjust fueling and total ignition timing as well. These adjustments can be particularly useful if your area gets spotty fuel quality, if you’re running race gas, or even if you’re running water/methanol. All of the aforementioned scenarios would benefit from some adjustment of fueling and timing over what the factory computer already allows. If you’re running race gas and wish to push the envelope you can do that. Or, if you want to find minimum best timing at a more modest boost pressure, you can do that too. The options are pretty limitless, which is part of the reason why we’re so excited about this product.




We also recognize that there’s been a lot of interesting in running supplemental fuels, and its nice to know that the Standback has a programmable PWM output for either water/methanol pumps or batch fire injectors.



So what does all of this add up to? Well aside from having tremendous control over the engine, the system also makes great power and seems to be as good if not better than the most popular systems on the market today. Above is a dyno run with the SB set to 14psi with a little bit of fuel added. You can see with only 14psi the Stand-Back able to make 53 horsepower and 84 pound-feet of torque as measured at the wheels over stock management (the car was also equipped with a turboback exhaust). As you can imagine, more boost and further tuning will yield higher results.




Here a beta tester installed the Standback along with the water/methanol ProFuel controller and a cp-e turboback. The totally stock run is above in above in the solid lines, and the dotted lines are after the modifications were installed. As you can see, the engine made 107 horsepower and 129 pound-feet of torque, and that’s through the factory airbox and intercooler.

Our shop car on a modest tune with our exhaust and intercooler is making 360 whp and 400 ft lbs!!!

We’ll continue flogging the Standback on our shop car, and we’re really looking forward to running the controller in conjunction with our upcoming single and twin-turbo upgrades! The flexibility of the system means we can really probe the limits of our 335i. If anyone has any questions I’ll do my best to answer them.


oh and the most important I am sure you are wondering is price. The CP-E/AMS Standback should be around $900 MSRP. In conjuction we will be building Maps to send to users purchasing this system

Eric

[heyimsam]

absolutley amazing. It's really nice to see that AMS is work on this car I believe you guys will do great things with it and I am already sold on the CP-e products

[My135]

How easy to use and what is the gain? My concern is a complicated product not necessary is a good produt. Some time, simple is the best form in function. More detailed report from a real user is wanted.

[randomquickness]

so...is the single turbo going to come later after the upgraded twin set up?

[hardNock]

This seems like a great product for someone who is well versed in tuning cars. What about people who don't have a good idea of the limits or aren't trained to do tuning on their own. Is there potential for harm? Not trying to jack your thread just putting out some ideas that might be a reason others choose to go with a more closed box solution (i.e. less configurable) with more support from the vendors with more expertese in tuning.

B.T.W - I do have a JB3 installed and definitely am putting a lot of trust into the vendor who is doing the tuning.

[Eric@AMS]

Originally Posted by My135

How easy to use and what is the gain? My concern is a complicated product not necessary is a good produt. Some time, simple is the best form in function. More detailed report from a real user is wanted.

The Standback is actually very easy to use, and you may choose to use all of its functions or not. So far as I know this is the only controller that simply allows you to type in the desired boost pressure target. You want 15psi? Type in 15psi and hit the "send" button. It's that easy.

We're working on getting some of these controllers in people's hands for some more feedback. Hang tight and we'll have some product reviews to share.

Originally Posted by randomquickness

so...is the single turbo going to come later after the upgraded twin set up?

I should have more information about our schedule here shortly.

Originally Posted by hardNock

This seems like a great product for someone who is well versed in tuning cars. What about people who don't have a good idea of the limits or aren't trained to do tuning on their own. Is there potential for harm? Not trying to jack your thread just putting out some ideas that might be a reason others choose to go with a more closed box solution (i.e. less configurable) with more support from the vendors with more expertese in tuning.

B.T.W - I do have a JB3 installed and definitely am putting a lot of trust into the vendor who is doing the tuning.

That's a great question. I don't think anyone is ever going to regret having options though, so I don't think a less configurable product would ever be better than one that allows for tuning flexibility. Your point is valid however, in that many people don't want to do any tuning themselves, which is why we're going to be offering canned maps just like the other tuning systems currently available. We're trying to cater to both markets: The guys that want to tweak and tinker and get the most out of their tune, and the guys that just want to set it and forget it.

[Eric@AMS]

Our single upgrade is really pending a solid fuel solution. In the meantime the upgraded Twins will be offered.

[randomquickness]

what is your hp goal with pump gas and the twin upgrade vs single with upgraded fuel system?

[akak1997]

I haven't read up on the Stand-Back system, is it a piggy back or a system that allow user to flash the ECU?

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by akak1997

I haven't read up on the Stand-Back system, is it a piggy back or a system that allow user to flash the ECU?

It's a piggy back, but I believe it differs in how the signal is processed.

Something about a closed loop system, where the Standback is in complete control and not just tricking the stock ecu into reaching its set parameters.

I'm not well versed on this, so I wish Josh from CP-E could speak for himself. Unfortunately, this forum is not dedicated to giving us all info about our cars, but instead filters it through what vendors can pay (Terry and Shiv) and who can't (CP-E). Thus the silencing and cloaking of CP-E's posts.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

Unfortunately, this forum is not dedicated to giving us all info about our cars, but instead filters it through what vendors can pay (Terry and Shiv) and who can't (CP-E). Thus the silencing and cloaking of CP-E's posts.

I can say with 100% certainty (having been on the other side), that this is false. It's about how people behave that allows them to post or not, similar to you and me, except with a different wrapper on it for vendors (for obvious reasons). There are no levels for vendors on 1addicts, in any sense.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by larryn

I can say with 100% certainty (having been on the other side), that this is false. It's about how people behave that allows them to post or not, similar to you and me, except with a different wrapper on it for vendors (for obvious reasons). There are no levels for vendors on 1addicts, in any sense.

it is unfortunate that the two biggest tuners cant help on here, we have to go to n54tech or similar forums to get good info

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by larryn

I can say with 100% certainty (having been on the other side), that this is false. It's about how people behave that allows them to post or not, similar to you and me, except with a different wrapper on it for vendors (for obvious reasons). There are no levels for vendors on 1addicts, in any sense.

Warning:

Then why have all of CP-E's posts been cloaked? What behavioral issues did they display? No mod has answered this except once in a post where they accused CP-E of scamming forum members. When this was challenged/questioned by myself and others, the mod deleted their post within a day and all of us were told to stop asking questions and to PM the mods if they had further questions. Any subsequent post by myself regarding the status of CP-E with 1addicts was deleted within minutes and I was threatened with account deactivation. I have never gotten an answer as to why CP-E is banned, in the forum posts or by PM.

Who is scamming who here?

[M2]

We are all "Winston Smith".

[Eric@AMS]

This will be released today in the sales vendor section.

hard wire systems will be $899.95 and available to ship in a week
PNP systems will be $1199.95 and available to ship in 4 weeks.

I will post a link to the sale thread once I have it loaded onto our site.

This will work with 135,335 and 535 cars

Eric

[Eric@AMS]

now Available!

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...83#post5609083

[hova00]

Lets see some real dyno #'s from your dyno.

[1lvr]

Yes, Dyno would be great...

[rcracer_tx]

Do you have a picture of it installed in the ecu box? How easy is it to install?

[Eric@AMS]

Originally Posted by hova00

Lets see some real dyno #'s from your dyno.

They will follow shortly!

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

Do you have a picture of it installed in the ecu box? How easy is it to install?

The PnP and pin-out installations are similar to the other systems on the market since we all more or less tap the same connections. Pin-out typically takes about 2-3 hours to install (for a first-timer) and PnP should probably take about an hour, with most of the time spent removing the plastic trim that covers the ECU.

I don't have a picture of the Standback installed, but I'll see if I can grab one for you today.



Since the Standback allows the end-user to tune their vehicles it may be a good idea to talk about tuning the N54 along with some visuals. Every engine is different, and as such we've been exploring the N54 in order to figure out what it takes to make big power safely and reliably. How should YOU tune your N54? The Standback allows people to tune their own cars, and we hope people use these messageboards to share experiences while learning about the N54. Since ignition timing has been hotly debated lately, let’s start talking about that.

Turbocharged engines are particularly sensitive to ignition timing because pressurizing the intake air increases the speed at which the mixture in the cylinder burns, and this is what we aim to explore. Perfect ignition advance will start the burn so that peak pressure in the cylinder coincides with the greatest mechanical advantage between the crankshaft and the connecting rod. So mistiming ignition (too much advance, or too little) essentially wastes energy that would otherwise be used to drive the piston down.

The procedure for finding optimal timing advance (also known as minimum best timing, or MBT) is simple, however most cars can't run minimum best timing because the fuel typically auto-ignites before they can advance the timing enough to reach MBT. Auto-ignition occurs when there's too much pressure in the cylinder before the ignition event, and the mixture explodes uncontrollably. This can damage engines over time, and also makes finding MBT on pump gas tricky. The ignition advance is actually pretty well optimized on a stock N54 (read: At stock boost levels!), but when you start increasing the boost pressure the ignition timing requirements will change. Again, this is because the compressed air/fuel mixture burns faster as pre-ignition pressure increases (as it will with more boost). So we wanted to see what sort of timing the engine likes to see under varying conditions. This will help us make educated decisions when sending customers off with canned tunes. Obviously, we don't want people's engines knocking from too much timing or boost, so consider this a fun experiment, while it also illustrates how much control we have over this car now.

We recently had the car on the dyno and filled up with 93-octane gas. We ran the car at varying boost pressure and fuel mixtures to see how each variable affected power output. Notice how consistent and linear the boost is.



We logged most of the runs and found that the car knocked even at a modest 12psi. That isn't exactly surprising however, since we're cramming nearly 170% the prescribed boost into the engine, which is going to drastically increase burn speed in the cylinder. Now, we could do a few things to correct this without extensive modifications:

- Pull ignition timing (no fun)
- Lower boost pressure (even less fun)
- Or increase the octane of the fuel <----- We decided on this one

We filled up the car with some ethanol, which increases the octane rating of the fuel, as well as enhances the evaporative cooling effect that the direct injection system already offers. Our aim is to see if increasing the octane of the fuel has any effect on power, and if so how much?



The graph above shows three runs we made. The lowest run was a 93-octane baseline at 12psi. This was the lowest of the three runs because it was knock limited, and the computer was retarding the spark event in order to prevent further detonation. The middle run was the same except the vehicle was running E40, and the highest run was the same as the middle run expect more timing was added in the top of the powerband. Again, this is free power we're liberating simply because we aren't knock limited while running the ethanol mixture.



What's interesting here is that the 93-octane run is knock limited, but the E40 runs are not. This is significant because the resulting timing curves are very different. The computer was able to run the timing it wanted with the E40, but then we were able to command an extra 3-5° ignition advance over the factory map! That means the computer wasn't completely taking advantage of the extra octane, but our Standback timing adjustments did. We can draw some conclusions from this: If you're going to increase your boost pressure beyond the factory targets you may want to dial in some ignition retard, and this is especially true if you are stuck using 91-octane gas. The computer seems to have a target ignition timing that it likes to see. When it can't reach the target ignition advance it will try to restore the timing, and if it knocks it'll pull the timing back out. Remember, it does this because we're lying to the computer about the true boost pressure we're running, so the computer is trying to restore the timing it thinks should be there. In other words, we're running 12psi, but the computer is optimizing the timing for stock boost (again, about 7psi).



The blue curve in the chart above is an example of the ECU trying to restore timing, but knock keeps it from reaching it's desired target. The red curve is a run with no knock, and as you can see the two curves look similar. The red curve is where the computer wants the ignition timing to be, and the blue is a timing curve that is knock limited. Now, if you pull timing using the Standback then the computer will bring the timing where it wants to be, but because our changes are transparent to the computer we're actually running less timing than is commanded by the ECU. This helps keep the ECU from constantly advancing the timing to see if the mixture auto-ignites, which will make for a happier engine over time

Now, for those of you that are intimidated by some of this stuff don't worry, we'll have canned maps for folks that just want to pop it in and not worry about tuning. We're able to make maps that make better use of high octane race fuel, or even alternative fuels like ethanol. For you guys that are excited about taking control over your car and actually tuning it yourselves, the fuel, ignition, and boost tables are 30x30 and may be adjusted with great granularity. I'm anxious to see what some of YOU guys can do with the Standback!

[My135]

Do they supply canned maps if I don't want (or don't know how) to mess with the adjustments? What kind of hp/tq gained from the canned maps?

[Raflekt]

For example for a high altitude costumer ( 8,500 ft ) with 92 oct MAX , what can you offer? and how much psi will I run?