N52 ESS supercharger kit

[631twentyeighteye]

its the same drivetrain in both cars, mounting will be identical if not relatively similar. Apparently a forum members is already running the ESS SC setup but who knows who it is. probably some 3 series guy.

[_Ryan_]

Results are in. Appears there are reliability issues (they won't say what) and they downgraded the power estimate.

[brkeley128i]

Thanks for the update, Ryan.

[631twentyeighteye]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Results are in. Appears there are reliability issues (they won't say what) and they downgraded the power estimate.

are you speaking about the reduction from 100hp to 50-60hp? Or even further down from 60hp?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

are you speaking about the reduction from 100hp to 50-60hp? Or even further down from 60hp?

They never promised 100hp, their test car was running more boost then the production setup. Stage 1+ will add an additional 20hp.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

They never promised 100hp, their test car was running more boost then the production setup. Stage 1+ will add an additional 20hp.

They did however set the expectation that they would deliver 100hp.

See:http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=133

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

We will be able to be around 100 HP with production boost levels.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

They did however set the expectation that they would deliver 100hp.

See:http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=133

Fair enough, carry on.

[topaz557]

i talked to roman a few days ago asking about the setup, he told me 60 bwhp for the 4500 kit and 80 bwhp for the 5 grand kit.. I'm planing on purchasing one after the holidays, so whats the deal with reliability issues because my 128i is my daily driver, i previously did a P.E.S. supercharger on my 2.8 a4 b5 and had no trouble running the car as a daily driver...

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by topaz557

i talked to roman a few days ago asking about the setup, he told me 60 bwhp for the 4500 kit and 80 bwhp for the 5 grand kit.. I'm planing on purchasing one after the holidays, so whats the deal with reliability issues because my 128i is my daily driver, i previously did a P.E.S. supercharger on my 2.8 a4 b5 and had no trouble running the car as a daily driver...

More stress is more stress. This engine was never built for boost.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

More stress is more stress. This engine was never built for boost.

Neither were lots of engines we've boosted.

Keep revs, cooling- coolant, oil, IAT, EGT; tune all sane and you should be able to have some fun for a while.

The test car was + ~120whp on I think they said 7-8 PSI.
Buy the kit, FMIC, headers, run ~9PSI and you'd be nearing 350whp. The challenge will be our low rev limit.

To me, this is a better option (even if the engine went pop in 30k ml) than swapping for an N54 at this point in time. The n54 is the smarter investment, but I'm sick of turbo cars.

[Kizzu]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Neither were lots of engines we've boosted.

Keep revs, cooling- coolant, oil, IAT, EGT; tune all sane and you should be able to have some fun for a while.

The test car was + ~120whp on I think they said 7-8 PSI.
Buy the kit, FMIC, headers, run ~9PSI and you'd be nearing 350whp. The challenge will be our low rev limit.

To me, this is a better option (even if the engine went pop in 30k ml) than swapping for an N54 at this point in time. The n54 is the smarter investment, but I'm sick of turbo cars.

I love the fact that there is a sc option and I really would like to buy this kit but the thing is that I don't plan on investing more money on the car as I already did to just be able to have some fyn FOR A WHILE.
Not saying anything wrong against what you said so don't take me wrong but I intend on keeping the car and continue modding it on a long term basis not just for a 30k miles and then it goes pop.
-sorry for chiming in.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Neither were lots of engines we've boosted.

Keep revs, cooling- coolant, oil, IAT, EGT; tune all sane and you should be able to have some fun for a while.

The test car was + ~120whp on I think they said 7-8 PSI.
Buy the kit, FMIC, headers, run ~9PSI and you'd be nearing 350whp. The challenge will be our low rev limit.

To me, this is a better option (even if the engine went pop in 30k ml) than swapping for an N54 at this point in time. The n54 is the smarter investment, but I'm sick of turbo cars.

If you think you know more than the company making the kit, go for it.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by Kizzu

I love the fact that there is a sc option and I really would like to buy this kit but the thing is that I don't plan on investing more money on the car as I already did to just be able to have some fyn FOR A WHILE.
Not saying anything wrong against what you said so don't take me wrong but I intend on keeping the car and continue modding it on a long term basis not just for a 30k miles and then it goes pop.
-sorry for chiming in.

If an engine goes bang, you buy another for a couple of grand and have an engine swap BBQ.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

If you think you know more than the company making the kit, go for it.

if the N52 pops at such low boost

it's quite possibly literally the worst, weakest engine made in the last 2 decades, if not more.

i haven't seen even the most piece of crap econobox 4 banger non turbo that will pop under like 10psi on 93AKI... with weaker crank, rods, caps, toothpick studs, fiber gaskets, pistons, and the whole lot cast out of china offcuts (effectively, lol)

and if something DID break.. WHAT broke, what needs to be upgraded to get the N52 to make the power it should? simple.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

If you think you know more than the company making the kit, go for it.

The company that won't tell us what they broke? Doesn't make me want to hand over money.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by flinchy

if the N52 pops at such low boost

it's quite possibly literally the worst, weakest engine made in the last 2 decades, if not more.

i haven't seen even the most piece of crap econobox 4 banger non turbo that will pop under like 10psi on 93AKI... with weaker crank, rods, caps, toothpick studs, fiber gaskets, pistons, and the whole lot cast out of china offcuts (effectively, lol)

and if something DID break.. WHAT broke, what needs to be upgraded to get the N52 to make the power it should? simple.

Whatever floats your boat.

[Obioban]

Clearly BMW didn't think the n52 was reliable for 300 crank hp under boost, since they based their FI engines on the much heavier and more primitive m54.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Clearly BMW didn't think the n52 was reliable for 300 crank hp under boost, since they based their FI engines on the much heavier and more primitive m54.

Yup...

[135Pats]

If you are dead set on throwing boost at a high revving, NA BMW motor....Do it right and buy an S54 and shoot for the moon. More similar in architecture to the N54 (duh), the S54 is simply....better. There's nothing all that interesting about the N54 IMO, it's just strong as an ox and fairly efficient with boost.

Boosting a 52 is a complete waste of time.

Just skimming over this thread...I'm even more confused.

People don't get why the 52 isn't made for an addtl. 50-100WHP via boost? Alum. cylinder liners....Mag. block....Cast rotating assembly IIRC?

Doesn't mean it's not a fantastic motor, it's just not made to accommodate the heat and back pressure that accompanies blowers.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

If you are dead set on throwing boost at a high revving, NA BMW motor....Do it right and buy an S54 and shoot for the moon. More similar in architecture to the N54 (duh), the S54 is simply....better. There's nothing all that interesting about the N54 IMO, it's just strong as an ox and fairly efficient with boost.

Boosting a 52 is a complete waste of time.

Just skimming over this thread...I'm even more confused.

People don't get why the 52 isn't made for an addtl. 50-100WHP via boost? Alum. cylinder liners....Mag. block....Cast rotating assembly IIRC?

Doesn't mean it's not a fantastic motor, it's just not made to accommodate the heat and back pressure that accompanies blowers.

Exactly.

And the S54 makes the N54 look like a ming vase. Iron blocks can take pretty much anything(aside from morons like HPF), and the stock trans is rated for 800ft/lbs of torque, supporting a number of 1200hp cars.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

If you are dead set on throwing boost at a high revving, NA BMW motor....Do it right and buy an S54 and shoot for the moon. More similar in architecture to the N54 (duh), the S54 is simply....better. There's nothing all that interesting about the N54 IMO, it's just strong as an ox and fairly efficient with boost.

Boosting a 52 is a complete waste of time.

Just skimming over this thread...I'm even more confused.

People don't get why the 52 isn't made for an addtl. 50-100WHP via boost? Alum. cylinder liners....Mag. block....Cast rotating assembly IIRC?

Doesn't mean it's not a fantastic motor, it's just not made to accommodate the heat and back pressure that accompanies blowers.

Keep in mind the S62 & S65 take some boost (as do many other motors outside of the BMW world) without cast iron sleeves.
We understand that this is a suboptimal environment for boost, where transparency lacks is what has actually failed for those attempting to do it.

If we were to go to the effort of fitting an S54, an N54 or N55 would make far more sense for a car which is still road registered.

A waste of time depends on how you perceive the value of your time.

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

And the S54 makes the N54 look like a ming vase. Iron blocks can take pretty much anything(aside from morons like HPF), and the stock trans is rated for 800ft/lbs of torque, supporting a number of 1200hp cars.

Iron blocks still die when rods shoot for the moon...

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Keep in mind the S62 & S65 take some boost (as do many other motors outside of the BMW world) without cast iron sleeves.
We understand that this is a suboptimal environment for boost, where transparency lacks is what has actually failed for those attempting to do it.

If we were to go to the effort of fitting an S54, an N54 or N55 would make far more sense for a car which is still road registered.

A waste of time depends on how you perceive the value of your time.

Good post, all reasonable points.

I'm not suggesting a swap, realistically. I'm suggesting ditching an N52 powered car if you want to boost a BMW and make power that is worthwhile. Totally agree it's a terrible value proposition no matter how you slice it - but aren't all big power builds?

Here's my point

This is a block meant to see boost



This is a rod meant to see boost



The 52 is simply not built for it. Will it wilt at 5 PSI? I have no idea, probably not. But why risk it for relatively modest gains? It's not like there is some incredible redline or VE to chase with boost with the 52. The S65 likes a bit of boost but absolutely 100% is at risk on a stock motor. Decent number of folks are dropping rods, smoking bearings, etc etc on stock motors with blowers.

Bottom line: I don't see the sense in throwing substantial money at a motor that won't make a ton of power with modest boost, and will constantly be pushing the boundaries of back pressure and EGT. It's not like an S65/85 where at least you'll get a heroic redline and power curve. It'll look like an N54 curve....just worse. My 2C, certainly don't mean to insult the motor or anyone who likes boost. When it warms up i'll be upping it to about 25 pounds through my N54, so I certainly understand the desire.

Are they tuning off the stock DME? I plead ignorance on that front.