Final handling upgrade

[kazriel]

Hi guys,
Looking on doing some final upgrades to the 135 to improve handling. I have been driving my wife's RS 265 and absolutely love the steering feel, close to perfection in my book.

At this stage I have done subframe bushing, PSS tires, Bilstein B12s and wavetrac LSD.

I have ordered M3 front upper and lower control arms and Dinan camber plates. I have however read that the tie rods and front sway bar links may be worth replacing at the same time. As far as I am aware (2nd owner) these have never been replaced. Should I order these and do all at same time? Car in nearly 100 000km 2008 model?

Additionally still have stock front and rear sway bars, and was planning on reviewing my need for the upgraded M3 bars at a later date, however if there is merit in doing it now also would consider this too.

Finally, since reflashing car (already had JB4, catless DPs, FMIC and DCIs) I have noticed a bit of unsettling rear squirming under hard acceleration and think my alligmnet is off, which I'm thinking will be remedied once I get another alignment once above parts are installed. Thinking of running neutral front toe, and some minor rear toe in?

Any advice appreciated,
Cheers

[titium]

toe arms and guide rods (lower control arms) in the rear will help with squirming. factory toe arms have bushes which deflect under load causing dynamic changes in toe.

all aftermarket toe arms are ball jointed as far i know eliminating the bushes.

rear arms just get the lower arms (guide rods) don't bother with upper m3 control arms you do get forged aluminium in the m3 part vs steel stock parts, they look cool but the bushes are the same firmness as the m3 parts so all you get is a small weight saving.

Sway bar end links depend on how much you've lowered your car. mild lowering wouldn't bother anything more then i would probably get adjustable links which allow you to emilinate any pre load in the sway bar that comes from lowering. by lowering your putting extra strain on the factory links you could always wait till they go and start making noises then replace them with adjustable links.

[kazriel]

Thanks titium this makes sense,
Would you suggest Megan racing rear toe arms and M3 lower rear arms?

[titium]

Originally Posted by kazriel

Thanks titium this makes sense,
Would you suggest Megan racing rear toe arms and M3 lower rear arms?

that's what i have. there are other toe arms out there but the megans are the only ones I could find with no reported issues (such as cluncking after 6 months or so of useage)

[froop]

+1 on the alignment.

If the rear end is squirming under power it's likely due to your alignment. I know that mine does it pretty much after every time I go to the track and it's due to rear toe out. This means that the wheels are pointing slightly out rather than in. What that does is make the rear of the car try to steer one direction than the other. Very off putting. The factory specs are to have about 1.2mm of toe in on either side which will cause them both to point slightly inwards and give your car a feeling of rear end stability when under hard throttle.

The factory specs also recommend about the similar amount of toe in on the front however if it's handling you're after, I'd recommend either a neutral toe setting on the front or possibly a slight toe out, around 1mm on either side. What this will due is make the front end of the car much more responsive to steering inputs. Rather than getting this play in the steering before the car begins to turn it will instead want to dart to the side with slight steering inputs which in my opinion feels great. The downside to having some toe out is that the car will want to tram line. Once again, I actually like this feeling as it makes the car feel alive however if you don't want it tram lining then go factory recommended toe in at the front which will again give the car more a stable feeling.

In terms of sway bars, I'd recommended getting a thick front sway bar at least. If you're just street driving, then also you could do a rear sway bar too. It'll make the car feel much flatter during the cornering. You could go with M3 ones or alternatively Whiteline also make a kit.

[froop]

One more thing. Getting wider front tyres on a square setup will also make a huge difference.

On my E88 I got another set of 261s and run the rear 18x8.5ET52 on the front with a 10mm spacer and have a 245/35/18 PSS square setup. What this does is reduce that constant understeer feel that was previously always present and the steering just responds the way you want it to. My car is lower than a stock E82 on the same M-sport suspension due to the additional weight of being a convertible and I don't have camber plates. I've just knocked out the alignment pins to increase the negative camber slightly and I'm getting hardly any rubbing, if any.

[titium]

excellent thanks alex was wondering what i needed to fit rear 261 wheels up front. 10mm spacer it is!

[froop]

Originally Posted by titium

excellent thanks alex was wondering what i needed to fit rear 261 wheels up front. 10mm spacer it is!

Yep, an 8.5 ET52 with a 10mm spacer makes it ET 42. Most of the 8.5" front fitment wheels we get for 1ers (like Apex) run an 8.5" ET45 wheel. This gives us an extra 3mm of clearance on the inside but 3mm less on the outside so you need a little bit of camber if you're lowered. If you're not lowered then it's pretty fine.

[kazriel]

Had allignment, front M3 control arms, Camber plates, megan racing rear toe arms installed a week ago.
Very significant improvement. I set the front toe at neutral however I'm slightly missing the front toe out I must of had as I quite liked the slight tramline jumpiness the car used to have.

One down side is that the shop installing the parts said the rear guide rods were about an inch too short and couldnt be installed. I think they've tried them someone else and got confused.
Anyway I have heard they aren't difficult to install but cannot find a how-to guide for rear guide rod install.
Should I just jack the car up and take the rear wheels off and remove guide rods from there?

[froop]

Originally Posted by kazriel

Had allignment, front M3 control arms, Camber plates, megan racing rear toe arms installed a week ago.
Very significant improvement. I set the front toe at neutral however I'm slightly missing the front toe out I must of had as I quite liked the slight tramline jumpiness the car used to have.

One down side is that the shop installing the parts said the rear guide rods were about an inch too short and couldnt be installed. I think they've tried them someone else and got confused.
Anyway I have heard they aren't difficult to install but cannot find a how-to guide for rear guide rod install.
Should I just jack the car up and take the rear wheels off and remove guide rods from there?

Did you buy aftermarket rear guide rods? The stock and the M3 rear guide rods are exactly the same length and definitely shouldn't be too short. The thing I could think would be if your maybe purchased the wrong adjustable toe arm which is throwing the angle of the hub out of whack and making it impossible to fit the rear guide rod.

[kazriel]

Good thoughts froop but I don't think so.
Megan toe arms purchased are for e82 e88. Its an e9x M3 rear guide rod TRW so not aftermarket and at the moment the stock e82 guide rod is installled.
I think it was probably a bit of oversight and confusion on th he part of the garage but I'm not sure I can be bothered driving across town to the shop to push the point.

From what i understand the rear guides don't need an allignment and can be installed wroth hand tools. Been looking for an e90 or e82 manual for the install process but coming up short

[froop]

The guide rods themselves shouldn't need any alignment but if you are removing any other parts of the suspension like the toe arms or camber links in order to install the guide rods then you will need an alignment afterwards. Sounds like a pretty fail job by the shop. They should just slot in and tighten. Maybe he was trying to put them in upside down or something or hasn't compressed the spring to fit it.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by kazriel

Good thoughts froop but I don't think so.
Megan toe arms purchased are for e82 e88. Its an e9x M3 rear guide rod TRW so not aftermarket and at the moment the stock e82 guide rod is installled.
I think it was probably a bit of oversight and confusion on th he part of the garage but I'm not sure I can be bothered driving across town to the shop to push the point.

From what i understand the rear guides don't need an allignment and can be installed wroth hand tools. Been looking for an e90 or e82 manual for the install process but coming up short

I had TRW guide rods and Megan Toe arms. It should all fit.