Spy movie 1 coupe

[Advevo]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do....photopanel..2.*

[spudw]

That's fantastic! Looks like the same car you photographed.

[PACIFICONE2003]

Great Video!

[BForbes]

What makes me nervous is that I havent seen a 1 coupe spyshot with the tailpipes arranged like the 335i. Maybe there wont be a bi-turbo 1. Hopefully Scott is right on this one. :iono:

[Brookside]

:roundel: :roundel: :roundel: :roundel:

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Is it just me, or does it look like the 1 series sticks like glue everywhere it goes?

[larry lawless]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

Is it just me, or does it look like the 1 series sticks like glue everywhere it goes?

yeah i agree it just looks like it can change direction like a fly:headbang:

[amdmaxx]

I really hope they bring 135i to US..

[brett8210]

I would like the 135i as well, but when you think about it, it doesn't make much sense unless it is an M. If they price the 135i in the same way they currently price their models (with the higher 3 overlapping the lower 5, etc) then the minimum the 135i would start out at is around $35K. With Luxury and Sport packages (typical on dealer lots) you are close to $40K if not more.

That kind of money is hard to justify for a 1 series (unless of course it is an M)

I think what would be more typical is a 128i starting at $27 and a 130i starting at $32. Just a guess, but it seems to make the most sense.

[spudw]

I'm with you, Brett. This is, first and foremost, a compact car. Luxury compact, yes. And potentially high performance, yes. Would an M version be iconic, yes.

But I think regular people are pretty straightforward on how they view compact cars (even luxury ones) and would need to be very motivated to spend US$40K on a car in this configuration.

I'm targetting the mid-range (130i), as I expect it will be a good balance between $$ and performance/features. I would expect the market to be split something like 30/65/5 were 128i/130i/M1 to be the lineup.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by brett8210

I would like the 135i as well, but when you think about it, it doesn't make much sense unless it is an M. If they price the 135i in the same way they currently price their models (with the higher 3 overlapping the lower 5, etc) then the minimum the 135i would start out at is around $35K. With Luxury and Sport packages (typical on dealer lots) you are close to $40K if not more.

That kind of money is hard to justify for a 1 series (unless of course it is an M)

I think what would be more typical is a 128i starting at $27 and a 130i starting at $32. Just a guess, but it seems to make the most sense.

I understand that 40k for a non-M 1 series is asking a lot. But, how quickly forget that its quite hard to get into a base Z4 for less than 40,000, and that is small as hell. The Z4-M that i sat in had a nice sticker of $58,000. hmmm

[spudw]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

quite hard to get into a base Z4 for less than 40,000

1er will be a relatively high volume and more-or-less entry-level (at least in the public's perception). It won't fetch the same kind of price point as the relatively up-market Z4. For the vast majority of buyers, it will be a high-end compact day-to-day car that just happens to looks great and perform (hopefully) even better.

Apples to oranges...

A 135i would be a mistake, as it would squeeze the M1 into too tight a corner. I'd prefer to see an entry-level offering (128i) and a premium model (130i) and then have the M1 as the true must-have performance coupe of the decade... Then we're talking $40K+...

[brett8210]

Also remember that the Z4 has a fantastic interior that is very upscale. The 1 Series will not have that. Although it will have to be good, it can not be as good as the Z4.

[BForbes]

I still dont think the 135i would be a mistake. It just means that BMW needs to turn up the heat ALOT on that M1. If there is a 30hp difference between the 128i and 130i, then thats garbage. But honestly, that M is not going to be cheap. i dont see it coming in at any less that $45,000. Its an M for goodness sake.

I hope scott is right.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I still dont think the 135i would be a mistake. It just means that BMW needs to turn up the heat ALOT on that M1. If there is a 30hp difference between the 128i and 130i, then thats garbage. But honestly, that M is not going to be cheap. i dont see it coming in at any less that $45,000. Its an M for goodness sake.

I hope scott is right.

45k would be my estimate on the M1 also....
and I do expect to see the base model use the 2.8 liter not the 3.0 with the 3.5TT the next step.
The real trick will be how the twin-turbo is priced.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by spudwest

A 135i would be a mistake, as it would squeeze the M1 into too tight a corner. I'd prefer to see an entry-level offering (128i) and a premium model (130i) and then have the M1 as the true must-have performance coupe of the decade... Then we're talking $40K+...

I don't see 128i-130i lineup. Not enough difference both in performance and in name. I really want the 130i, but I don't think it'll happen if we get either a 128i or a 135i.

[brett8210]

In order for this all to work the 1 series needs to be starting around $27K. Any higher than that and most people will not see the advantage over a 328i.

With that being said, the next step will have to be around $5K more. I don't see BMW discounting their TT engine to be placed in a car for $32K. Such a move would risk a significant cannibalism of 335i sales (of both coupe and sedan numbers). Don't forget the convertable is coming and BMW has to charge a premium over the coupe, but get it below $40K.

Therefore, the 135i coupe at $35K with options over $40K and a 135i convertable at over $45K? This makes no sense. They won't do that. I have no doubt that the TT will probably be in the 1 series, but only as the M. Then they can charge what they want because people will pay it.

Additionally, they will probably detune the 128 and retune the 130 so that there would be a marketable difference in performance to justify a $4-5K difference.

[larry lawless]

Originally Posted by brett8210

In order for this all to work the 1 series needs to be starting around $27K. Any higher than that and most people will not see the advantage over a 328i.

With that being said, the next step will have to be around $5K more. I don't see BMW discounting their TT engine to be placed in a car for $32K. Such a move would risk a significant cannibalism of 335i sales (of both coupe and sedan numbers). Don't forget the convertable is coming and BMW has to charge a premium over the coupe, but get it below $40K.

Therefore, the 135i coupe at $35K with options over $40K and a 135i convertable at over $45K? This makes no sense. They won't do that. I have no doubt that the TT will probably be in the 1 series, but only as the M. Then they can charge what they want because people will pay it.

Additionally, they will probably detune the 128 and retune the 130 so that there would be a marketable difference in performance to justify a $4-5K difference.

i agree, you have to remember that all of us on this forum are the hardcore fans that come out and talk about how we want and hope the car turns out and we want it to cater to our needs. but u must remember that bmw is designing this car for the world and they wanna cater to everyone and to do that the price has to be just right and a 135i price would have to fall around $35k US and like someone else said before. the convertible is coming as well and with options it would be to high of a price to pay for the non-hardcore.

but i have faith that they will make it the best they can and not just a car to fill a market:respekt:

[kere]

Bit offtopic but is the coupe to be revealed in Frankfurt this fall (13. september)? It's going to be a looong summer

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by kere

Bit offtopic but is the coupe to be revealed in Frankfurt this fall (13. september)? It's going to be a looong summer

Coupe and convertible are scheduled to debut at Franfurt in September according to Scott.

Let's face it, BMW has all the stuff in it's toybox to make the 1-er a very special car. Hitting the target on model prices is going to be a huge challenge. But I don't think that the possible price overlap with the 3-series is such a determining factor...the 1-er has its own set of customer base...much different than the typical buyer for a "3".

I mean, is anyone on this forum remotely considering a 3-er sedan if the engine choice they want isn't there or if a 3.0, for example, in the 1-er is only a shade less expensive than the 3-er? It's like comparing apples and oranges.


closing in on 500

[brett8210]

"the 1-er has its own set of customer base...much different than the typical buyer for a "3"."

I agree, but unfortunately, most people that would appreciate the differences in weight and general performance are limited to the hard core fans. I personally don't what a three sedan. But the typical buyer when faced with a choice of the same engine transmission decision will opt for the bigger car. (for a host of reasons)

Additionally, the 3-series in the US is not only a sports sedan, but a status symbol. The 1-er will not have that catche at the beginning. Therefore, greater differentiation and potential "value" considerations become significant.

I want the 1-series with the greatest performance potential, but the typical buyer will be looking for a "reason" not to get the status symbol and opt for, what they will consider initially, a lesser vehicle. Doesn't make them right, just makes them customers.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by brett8210

"the 1-er has its own set of customer base...much different than the typical buyer for a "3"."

I agree, but unfortunately, most people that would appreciate the differences in weight and general performance are limited to the hard core fans. I personally don't what a three sedan. But the typical buyer when faced with a choice of the same engine transmission decision will opt for the bigger car. (for a host of reasons)

Additionally, the 3-series in the US is not only a sports sedan, but a status symbol. The 1-er will not have that catche at the beginning. Therefore, greater differentiation and potential "value" considerations become significant.

I want the 1-series with the greatest performance potential, but the typical buyer will be looking for a "reason" not to get the status symbol and opt for, what they will consider initially, a lesser vehicle. Doesn't make them right, just makes them customers.

You make some interesting points...I can definitely see potential customers
taking both the "1" and "3" out for test drives to compare the two models.
Yes, the "1" might get some people just because of bottom line finances.

But I don't think for a second anyone is going to think of the 1-er as a lesser car. Certainly not the people who work at the dealerships. This car is as much or more anticipated than any BMW in my experience by the people who sell and service the vehicles. The marque certainly gets some people who shop for status, but some of the most rabid knowledgeable BMW owners I've run across are guys driving the "7".

If you look at customer profiles brand-by-brand, people who value status as a prime consideration for the purchase of a specific manufacturer; they usually buy Mercedes- this is a fact that appears in survey after survey. Probably the one most often cited, because parts of it were available to the public, was a deep survey by the German research firm Ajax. Their conclusions virtually changed BMW's perceived motto of "Ein Sausage, Drei Stucke"..
one sausage, 3 sizes...
to a total makeover of the brand by re-emphasizing its sporty aesthetic, increasing the model line-up and ushering in the Chris Bangle years.

Getting price points zeroed in on target are what's going to really affect the mass popularity of the car. In no way is it going to be perceived as a cut-rate BMW. I just don't buy into the perception that the typical 1-er buyer won't be well informed about weight (translation- fuel economy) and sporty characteristics. Those attributes and price will combine to make something very special to a broad informed clientele.