08-23-2012, 11:18 AM | #1 |
Lieutenant
54
Rep 509
Posts |
Track guys - Overheating warped rotors
Hi Guys - so it seems this is a consistent issue with the 1M and bumper design from my conversations with other guys at the track. The design of the bumper comprised cooling to the brakes compared to the 135i.
The local guy that does work for the BMW track guys is converting his 135i into a 1M and will be making custom brake ducts, I'll do it on my car once he's done. I'm hoping this fixes the issue - rotors get expensive! Any other guys that go to the track having this issue, done brake ducts already? |
08-23-2012, 11:29 AM | #2 | |
Colonel
292
Rep 2,898
Posts |
Quote:
BTW are you sure the rotors are warped and that it's simply brake pad deposits?? Neil |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 11:33 AM | #3 |
Major
79
Rep 1,421
Posts |
No problems here.
2 very high heat events @ Road Atlanta (track that is hard on brakes) 1 very high heat event @ AMP (semi hard on brakes) 1 80 degree day @ Sebring (not very hard on brakes) Neil has done the leg work on this project so find his thread and call BimmerWorld for the parts.
__________________
Dan Parker
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 11:56 AM | #4 | |
Private First Class
22
Rep 170
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2011 1M, Valencia Orange
2002 IT2 Nissan Sentra, Racecar Green Board Member, Western Canada Motorsport Association http://www.wcma.ca/new/ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 01:45 PM | #5 |
Lieutenant
69
Rep 420
Posts |
I warped a set of rotors as did two other forum members I know. I had quite a few events in when it happened and I'm pretty sure the others did too. I'll make sure from now on that I cool down at higher speed to keep more airflow and I will likely also implement Neil's ductwork as well.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 02:20 PM | #6 |
Lieutenant
54
Rep 509
Posts |
It was warped rotors, dealer replaced them and I know of two other 1M who track and same issue.
One guy got the 'unlimited' replacement package from BMW and they replace them 3 times a year so far! LOL I'll search for Neil's post. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 02:40 PM | #7 |
Private First Class
7
Rep 173
Posts |
with the stock pads you warp the rotors pretty fast. The stock pads are not made for tracking. Put on some proper track pads and the brakes will work properly, and do warping of the discs.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 03:44 PM | #8 | ||
Scythe-Meister
90
Rep 1,053
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by mlhj83; 08-23-2012 at 04:00 PM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 04:26 PM | #9 |
Lieutenant
54
Rep 509
Posts |
Just so I'm clear mlhj83 you don't believe that the rotors on the 1M will warp and think everyone is wrong including BMW mechanics?
Just to be clear with my situation, the dealer was very aware of brake deposit issue and first checked the rotors for this, it wasn't the issue, they where warped, no question about that. The reason I think M3's are seeing it as much is due to the cooling they have and I think the 1M design lacks any consideration for cooling of the brakes. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 05:11 PM | #10 |
Brigadier General
1848
Rep 4,836
Posts |
^^^I have the same problem and in speaking to others I get the same answer. Replace the pads with something more track friendly and all will be fine. The dealer will tell you to replace the rotors.
I hear Ferodo DS2500 Clubsport Brake Pads are quite good. May try a set. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 05:48 PM | #12 | |
Scythe-Meister
90
Rep 1,053
Posts |
Quote:
It is difficult/impossible to determine whether a brake disc has truly gone out of shape (i.e. warped) when there are spots and layers of uneven brake deposits on the surface of the disc. The brake disc surface has to be free of these deposits or have an even layer of pad material all across the disc, to be able measure runout to determine whether the brake disc is truly warped. Because of this, all the dealership can do is measure runout with a gauge which will invariably show runout on your discs, BUT, whether the runout is caused by a warped disc or the uneven pad deposits cannot be clearly distinguished until the discs are clean. All the dealership can say with certainty is that the disc surface is uneven. Most - not all - of the time, a warped brake disc isn't truly warped. It is, however, possible for a brake disc, that isn't warped but has uneven pad deposits, to become truly warped if the discs are not cleaned of its uneven deposits in good time. This is because the deposits will cause the underlying metal to heat up more than the surrounding deposit-free metal, this will eventually cause true warping. If you speak to friction engineers from any of the reputable Formula racing brake manufactures, like AP Racing, Performance Friction, Alcon, this is what they will tell you. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2012, 11:57 PM | #15 | |
Scythe-Meister
90
Rep 1,053
Posts |
Quote:
Obviously, there are some who like/need to push hard on track lap after lap for 20mins or longer, then things like a BBK and dedicated ducts become a necessity. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-24-2012, 07:38 AM | #16 |
Private First Class
11
Rep 161
Posts |
My rotors got warped recently on a local former F1 race track.
One part of the track includes braking from 250 km/h to about to 60 km/h (90 degree right turn). I've raced my cars for some years now on local tracks, and never had a problem with warped rotors before. Race brake pads (Carbotech XP10). No brake ducts or other form of brake cooling. I know how to brake (short and firm). I asked my BMW dealership if I could get the rotors replaced, but was told that BMW AG in Germany (where evidently all warranty claims are sent for further analysis) probably never would agree to replace them. "Why?" "Your rotors are blue!!" "Well, isn't that the point?" I was told never to drive with MDM on (I did the first track day with the car), never to use race pads (Why not? The OEM pads aren't good enough, and I have used race pads successfully for some years now), always make sure to cool the brakes down after leaving the track ( I always do), and you have tuned your car (Yes, the brakes do need to work a bit more, but the brakes should be able to handle a tad more power without problem). In my humble opinion, the 1M desperately needs brake cooling. If anyone develops a set (no CF please - I'm all go no show) of brake ducts I would be interested. ...and no, no BBK for me. The 1M/M3 brakes are sufficient enough.
__________________
Last edited by Hobbe; 08-24-2012 at 07:44 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-24-2012, 08:55 AM | #17 |
Major
79
Rep 1,421
Posts |
A braking zone that requires a decrease of 190 kph is extremely hard on any system. With the weight of the 1M, track pads, and stock rotors I'd be surprised if something didn't warp or fail. Brake ducts may not solve your problem at this track. Did you get any fade? Do your rotors have stress cracks?
__________________
Dan Parker
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-24-2012, 10:14 AM | #18 |
Private First Class
11
Rep 161
Posts |
Parker,
itīs one part of the track. Violent steering wheel vibrations were actually noticed on the following short straight half a lap after the part above. On this short straight you'll reach 140-150 kph before turning right at about 60-70 kph. Laptime 1:50 for "semi fast" amateurs. No fade or cracks, which per se could be interpreted as thereīs no need for brake cooling, but the rotors are getting really hot. EDIT: ...and yes, the 1M is a heavy car for itīs size. An old fashioned CSL treatment wouldn't hurt. Last edited by Hobbe; 08-24-2012 at 10:27 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-24-2012, 01:52 PM | #19 | |
Scythe-Meister
90
Rep 1,053
Posts |
Quote:
Brakes on M cars are NOT a common complaint. It is a common complaint for enthusiasts and automotive journalists, but NOT for the majority of people who have bought these cars. BMW has catered for the enthusiast by making the M performance sport brake pads available for those that require improved braking. They are used on the ring taxis, which obviously carry a full load of passengers. This is what I have currently and they fit my needs fine so far. If you need more, then obviously you will have to spend on cooling ducts, BBK etc. Last edited by mlhj83; 08-24-2012 at 02:08 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-24-2012, 02:46 PM | #20 |
Captain
137
Rep 718
Posts
Drives: N/A
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Phila, PA
|
What a perfect timing. I just came back from watkins glen. and after session 3 the last 5 mins, My steering wheel is shaking. session 4 got worst.
My instructor told me I have a warp rotor. but after reading all the posts, maybe it's the brake deposits. I am using stock pad with stock rotor and super blue brake fluid. I already made an appointment on Monday for the service. Let's see what BMW says... Do they replaced for free or not?
__________________
2021 F87 HS M2C
2018 F80 SO M3 (SOLD) 2016 F80 AY M3 (SOLD) 2014 F10 M5 LCI (SOLD) 2011 VO 1M (SOLD) |
Appreciate
0
|
08-24-2012, 03:22 PM | #22 | |
Scythe-Meister
90
Rep 1,053
Posts |
Quote:
Last edited by mlhj83; 08-24-2012 at 03:27 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|