1 Series M Coupe vs RS3 - Specs and Styling Compared

[Redline]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Well I guess you're entitled to your opinion. I must say it sounds very biased and uninformed based on my experience.

One could say I'm baised as well, as I own an R32 with haldex. I try to stay objective, though, and I've owned a string of 4wd cars (UR quattro, WRX, Audi 4.2, etc). I've also owned around a dozen porsches and some M cars.

I took my R32 (with your dreaded haldex) to an SCCA autocross once- I generally take the 911, but it was raining. The car is a completely stock down to the spare tire in the back... In three runs (with no course walk) I placed 3rd out of 140 cars at the event. This was with 240 treadware street tires vs many modded cars of all classes, a number running hoosier wets. I was beaten by a couple STIs, but took out more than a few of them (and modded 996TTs, evos, and 10 BMWs).

Now either I'm a god among drivers, or that "wasted weight" might be good for something other than "flat, snowy roads"...

The fact is that I find the R32 a bit of an understeering pig if you don't adapt your driving. You need to be purposeful, almost using a Scandinavian flick to get the tail working in the dry. Once you do get it moving, though, you can do nice power-down drifts with the tail a few degrees out around low to medium speed sweepers. And if you're tidy it's a very quick back-road tool. It's not a great dry track car and I'd prefer it to be more neutral, but I think you're a fool to underestimate haldex as you are. The RS-3 will run the 1M close in the dry, and simply run away and hide in wet or damp conditions. That's completely down to the haldex...

Again, I'm still in line for the 1M, but your opinion sounds pretty uninformed to me.

sorry, but this doesn't convince me.
I beat a Lotus Exige S on an Auto Cross course in a FWD GTI.
So what's the deal? Too many variables to account for anything that the car is "a good performance car". Any car can be good performance under the right driver. The factor we have to take out is the driver difference and compare the cars.

Summary: Haldex is a glorified Fwd car, not a cornering system. Same with Audi's Quattro...its for Safety ...rather than dynamic performance like in the Evolution. If you want to know what I mean...youtube S5 vs Evo

[Joey_T]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Well I guess you're entitled to your opinion. I must say it sounds very biased and uninformed based on my experience.

One could say I'm baised as well, as I own an R32 with haldex. I try to stay objective, though, and I've owned a string of 4wd cars (UR quattro, WRX, Audi 4.2, etc). I've also owned around a dozen porsches and some M cars.

I took my R32 (with your dreaded haldex) to an SCCA autocross once- I generally take the 911, but it was raining. The car is a completely stock down to the spare tire in the back... In three runs (with no course walk) I placed 3rd out of 140 cars at the event. This was with 240 treadware street tires vs many modded cars of all classes, a number running hoosier wets. I was beaten by a couple STIs, but took out more than a few of them (and modded 996TTs, evos, and 10 BMWs).

Now either I'm a god among drivers, or that "wasted weight" might be good for something other than "flat, snowy roads"...

The fact is that I find the R32 a bit of an understeering pig if you don't adapt your driving. You need to be purposeful, almost using a Scandinavian flick to get the tail working in the dry. Once you do get it moving, though, you can do nice power-down drifts with the tail a few degrees out around low to medium speed sweepers. And if you're tidy it's a very quick back-road tool. It's not a great dry track car and I'd prefer it to be more neutral, but I think you're a fool to underestimate haldex as you are. The RS-3 will run the 1M close in the dry, and simply run away and hide in wet or damp conditions. That's completely down to the haldex...

Again, I'm still in line for the 1M, but your opinion sounds pretty uninformed to me.

Haldex Audi vs RWD BMW in wet conditions:

Did the AWD run away? However it has to be said that for an average driver the AWD will always be much easier to handle on a wet surface

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Redline

sorry, but this doesn't convince me.
I beat a Lotus Exige S on an Auto Cross course in a FWD GTI.
So what's the deal? Too many variables to account for anything that the car is "a good performance car". Any car can be good performance under the right driver. The factor we have to take out is the driver difference and compare the cars.

Beating one car is luck. Beating 10 BMWs (actually 10 cars, but 14 drivers), the closest of which was 2.6 seconds back... very lucky? Beating 137 out of 140 other cars and drivers in a competitive SCCA region? Very, very lucky? Maybe they all just had a very bad day... Sounds much more likely than 4wd being useful in the wet, right?

Originally Posted by Redline

Summary: Haldex is a glorified Fwd car, not a cornering system. Same with Audi's Quattro...its for Safety

...which is why Audi always needs a few hundred pounds of penalty weight whenever it runs against 2wd cars. Somehow this still doesn't stop it winning, of course (three years straight in World Challenge before they changed the rules to stop it winning, DTM before they banned 4wd, etc, etc).

Originally Posted by Joey_T

Haldex Audi vs RWD BMW in wet conditions:

However it has to be said that for an average driver the AWD will always be much easier to handle on a wet surface

And in cars with enough power to actually have issues putting it down it will also be much faster (see above)...

Come on guys, there is a reason 4wd is banned in most forms of motorsports, and often wins in those forms where it's not. Go ahead and knock Haldex (or Quattro) for understeer, poor steering feed, lack of chassis adjust-ability... But you're just kidding yourselves if you think it's not faster in traction limited conditions.

[hajohehe]

i realize that many current bmw owners dont like 1 series m. but i think this 1 series m will define bmw from now on.

after developing m1(started from lhamborghini), bmw started coming out with famous m cars. i just hope that 1 series m will retain the driving dynamic and at same time be able evolve.

i do agree that 1 series m is heavily publicized, but i trust that bmw cars are built by engineers not marketing people.

rs3 looks like a car that audi would build. thats very good thing. benchmark bmw's powertrain and throw in an advanced quattro, which makes a car safer, and grippier.

[steve2k1116]

not a fan of the rs3 at all, bmw definitely takes it imo

[gp135]

Having sold my RS4 to buy a 135i in 2008.. I understand the appeal of the 4wd audi's.. and the roar of the engine is amazining.. But for sheer and fun what i think is a quicker pace point to point(probably even on a track) the 135 with the quaif LSD is it.. Having lined up a 997 at a traffic light grand prix it ,My 135 dazzels the uninformed.
Its a true sleeper...


So.. RS3 dont even bother.. 4wd = boring...

[gp135]

One last thing,,, the double clutch thingy is awesome..Perfetc gear changes everytime.. and it turns into an auto when in traffic. I drove a GTI golf with DSG... there is something there that worth looking at.. however the yaw and pitch control from the evo10 is also pretty good... I chased a evo through a roundabout.. and he was gone...nothing I could do,,, may be the stig could of stayed with him,, but it was too easy for johnny Average to drive it really quickly..

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by Simsims

I'd say the RS4 is a few sec slower on the track, taking the driver out of the equation.

Heavier, smaller wheels, front heavy & smaller brakes says it all.

AWD doesn't give THAT much an advantage.

On the street, I'd say the RS4 wins in the first few seconds, then 1M takes over.

Audi has larger brakes in front . . .

Still, the #1 issue will be the balance and larger tires - 1M will KILL it on a road course.

[///M1]

Originally Posted by gp135

Having sold my RS4 to buy a 135i in 2008.. I understand the appeal of the 4wd audi's.. and the roar of the engine is amazining.. But for sheer and fun what i think is a quicker pace point to point(probably even on a track) the 135 with the quaif LSD is it.. Having lined up a 997 at a traffic light grand prix it ,My 135 dazzels the uninformed.
Its a true sleeper...


So.. RS3 dont even bother.. 4wd = boring...

Did you have the Avant RS4? If so, big difference in terms of fun vs utility loss/gain.

But I can see how the RS and 135i are each a ton of fun (heck, I have both), just in a very different way, which makes them complements, not substitutes IMO . I love my 135i, and look at the 1 ///M as addressing all of its Achile's heal issues (suspension, LSD, improved looks, etc.)