Is this tire still track worthy?

[e82n54]

My track tire (HPDE events) had a short screw in it! I pulled it out very easily with pliers. It didn't puncture all the way through because tire pressure is still good. I just don't know if it's safe at the track now. Should I have it repaired, do nothing, or replace it? Thanks!

[Kgolf31]

should be fine.

take first session easy, check pressures and make sure they hold.

if you get lucky you can get OPR to fill the hole

[e82n54]

Thanks. What's OPR?

EDIT: OPR - "Other People's Rubber. A term autocrossers use to describe tire rubber that has worn off racing tires, usually building up in piles off the proper racing line."

I've heard it called "marbles" and "clag" (by David Hobbs), but OPR is new to me.

I have a flat tire repair kit. Should I shove some of that soft stuff in there or is that a waste of time?

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by e82n54

Thanks. What's OPR?

EDIT: OPR - "Other People's Rubber. A term autocrossers use to describe tire rubber that has worn off racing tires, usually building up in piles off the proper racing line."

I've heard it called "marbles" and "clag" (by David Hobbs), but OPR is new to me.

I have a flat tire repair kit. Should I shove some of that soft stuff in there or is that a waste of time?

Yup, other people's rubber. Especially during a track day there will be marbles off-line and on-line from other cars...even more so if the car is running R-Comps. Every track day I've ended up with a ton of extra rubber build-up on the tires that eventually falls off after they are driven hard again and scrubbed off. When the tire gets hot it acts like a magnet and grabs everything.

As for the flat tire repair kit...it may be okay just to seal that off. But don't know if itll actually last with the hard driving that you will do

[uwood]

I'd say its fine. Just don't repair it. Most racing do not approved repaired tires.

[drcollie]

Having been an Instructor since 1996, there is no way I will ever go on the track with a tire that is less than perfect. The two mechanical failures that can get you in serious trouble on a track are tires and brakes, you really want both to be 100%.

A new tire is $ 300 give or take. Let's say you are doing the event and that tire lets go at speed. Most the time you will roll your car if that happens, and its going to be totaled and if you're lucky you'll get by with cracked ribs. Then, you will get to see if your insurance policy covers your car at the track (most do not unless you buy day-of-the-event insurance). Is all that worth $ 300?

I guess I'm cynical because I've seen too many crashed at DE events and talked to too many tire engineers at the track from the big companies. For a putt-around street tire I'd take the chance but not at the track - unless of course you run the slowest in the novice group.

[e82n54]

Originally Posted by drcollie

Having been an Instructor since 1996, there is no way I will ever go on the track with a tire that is less than perfect. The two mechanical failures that can get you in serious trouble on a track are tires and brakes, you really want both to be 100%.

A new tire is $ 300 give or take. Let's say you are doing the event and that tire lets go at speed. Most the time you will roll your car if that happens, and its going to be totaled and if you're lucky you'll get by with cracked ribs. Then, you will get to see if your insurance policy covers your car at the track (most do not unless you buy day-of-the-event insurance). Is all that worth $ 300?

I guess I'm cynical because I've seen too many crashed at DE events and talked to too many tire engineers at the track from the big companies. For a putt-around street tire I'd take the chance but not at the track - unless of course you run the slowest in the novice group.

Thanks for your warning.

How often do you see crashed cars at HPDE's?

I definitely don't want to crash my car (cost of repair/replacement, lack of ideal safely devices, etc.).

I'm in the 3rd of 5 run group levels. I'm achieving dangerous speeds with little practice, experience, and skill in car control. I drive to my comfortable limit all day and sometimes slightly beyond at the HPDE's. I have spun a couple of times and have also driven straight off the track surface a few times when I felt I couldn't make the turn. It may just be a matter of time before something serious happens, and I want to be prepared for it.

I guess I should get a track car with a cage, racing seats, harnesses, and HANS, but it's so expensive to get started. I have no intention of racing wheel to wheel. I just want to do HPDE's and maybe time trials someday. I have to be able to drive the car to the track because I can't tow it. I'm thinking of someday getting a Miata and towing track wheels. This should be much safer and may even be cheaper in the long run. It's just that the initial cost is so high.

It's crazy how a little screw that didn't even puncture the tire can scare me so much.

Thoughts?

[drcollie]

>How often do you see crashed cars at HPDE's?<

Oh man, I would say it depends on the school. BMW schools tend to be fairly aggressive as do NASA ones, and Mazda club, etc. Porsche and Mercedes ones not so much, and the Aston guys are pretty laid back as are the Ferrari owners. I avoid getting in Vipers and most Mustangs, they're all lunatics - and some of the ZR Corvette guys need to be calmed down to teach them anything.

I guess I have instructed close to 150 events (am actually going tomorrow 09/09/13 for the Aston Martin HPDE at Summit Point WV) and probably 1/4 of them have had an incident where a car could not be driven home. I've probably seen 20 completely totaled cars and been in the right seat on one of those myself (BMW 330) when the student slammed it into a tree line and I came away with cracked ribs that took a few months to heal up. I always tell my students on the first session that we want to go home happy and tired, not broken/busted on a tow truck, so don't go nuts. The most dangerous driver in an HPDE is B CLASS guy (intermediate) that is just about ready to move to the A group. He's fast, capable, and had lots of confidence, but lacks the experience to get himself out of critical situations if they occur, so those are the guys that do the big crashes.

A couple of things I have learned along the way to pass along:

* Always make sure your car is as close to 100 % as you can make it before you go, especially brakes and tires. Never go out on questionable tires and if you have those nice dust-free aftermarket brake pads, put some REAL brake pads on for a track day because nothing will ruin you day like going for the brakes and finding out they're gone when coming off the main straight. Dustless brake pads can't take the heat and will disintegrate during a hard track day.

* Slow in - Fast out saves the day. You will almost never get into trouble if you go slow into the corners and fast out of them. Most problems are caused by too much corner entry speed. "Slow" is a relative term of course, but the # 1 thing I work on with my students is to get the car slowed down before we turn the steering wheel, and then add power through the corner. Brake on the straights, power through the curve. If you have driven off the track because you felt you can't make the corner you are not doing slow in, fast out. You can carry a lot of speed down the straight - that's the fun, but you want all your braking done before corner entry. Hard and effective braking = reduced lap times. I always get a kick out of the guys that buy engine upgrades for the track but run on stock brakes and tires. With an extra 50 HP in a car like a 335i, you may pick up 2 seconds a lap. But with sticky track tires and upgraded brake pads you can pick up 6 seconds a lap - 3x the amount of the HP engine upgrade.

I have a lot of track stories...lol

Duane

[mb135is]

Great advice/knowledge Duane. Thanks for sharing. After one weekend with my 1er at the track, I'm now looking for a high mileage E36 M to put a roll bar in and take to the track care-free. Well, not care-free, but you get the point. OP said it best: dangerous speeds with limited experience. It was the same with my MINI - I spent $$$ setting it up to run with much more powerful cars, which it did, but I didn't put in a bar for a proper harness, HANS, or proper seats. Will try to do it right this time!

OP if there is even the slightest chance that the screw went beyond the tread, I'd get rid of it for track use. These cars are very easy to get into trouble with, even with their dialed-in understeer. I'd want to be certain of my tires.

[e82n54]

So what's the best way to learn car control and how to get out a critical situation?

- more seat time at HPDE's?
- autocross?
- skid pad?
- drifting school?
- video games/simulators?

[blutattoo]

Originally Posted by e82n54

So what's the best way to learn car control and how to get out a critical situation?

- more seat time at HPDE's?
- autocross?
- skid pad?
- drifting school?
- video games/simulators?

To learn car control

1st skid pad
2nd HPDE
3rd auto-x

The others don't equate to car control on a track. Drifting requires car control, but not in any way that you'd want to duplicate on the street or a track. Well most responsible drivers anyway. If you wanna hoon in public or host Topgear then I suppose drifting would be appropriate, but there is no place for it at an HPDE. It's slower and decidedly more dangerous for those around you.

A time or two on a skid pad will help you recover so that once you do track the car you are safer to those around you.

Auto-x and track events both require different skill sets yet the combined goal is the same, to smoothly connect corners in the fastest way possible.

I suppose if you had a genuine simulator like the one F1 teams use then yes that could help, but Forza won't teach you shit about how a car feels.